I can do everything but is it enough?

[Lasulie]

Well i've been toying around with the DDO planner while I was bored looking for something I'd like to play and this build came up :

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 12 Bard \ 6 Artificer) 
Hit Points: 232
Spell Points: 788 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 17
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity            16                    19
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         16                    26
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             14                    16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    27
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         4                    25
Diplomacy             5                    10
Disable Device        7                    33
Haggle                6                    21
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  7                    27
Intimidate            2                     3
Jump                  3                     5
Listen               -1                     3
Move Silently         7                    27
Open Lock             7                    25
Perform               n/a                  32
Repair                3                     8
Search                7                    32
Spot                  3                    20
Swim                 -1                    -1
Tumble                4                     5
Use Magic Device      6                    27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Human Bonus) Precise Shot


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Artificer)


Level 9 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 13 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Artificer)


Level 18 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Artificer Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Artificer Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Attack I
Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Damage I
Enhancement: Artificer Battle Engineer I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Music of Makers
Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead
Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I
Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Intelligence I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
Enhancement: Improved Perform I
Enhancement: Improved Perform II
Enhancement: Improved Search I
Enhancement: Improved Search II
Enhancement: Improved Use Magic Device I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Artificer Intelligence I

It seems like a character that could handle any traps, help with healing duty (possibly main heal), deal decent damage from range (nearly on par with most?), provide awesome CC and give out some fairly decent buffs. Plus I can theorycraft that it will be awesome to play.
My questions are would a character like this be admitted into end-game groups? and how would you better the level splits so there are no moments where it would feel to weak ?
Any extra inputs are appreciated.

[Daerwen]

Im kinda new to the forums but i think i can help here. Bards healers need atleast 16 lvls of bard for mass cure mod and Inspire Heroics (awesome buff btw), even then i dont think its enough and u may want to go pure with it. For arti dps, i think half of it comes from there rune arm that increases by lvl of arti. If memory serves me the some of the arcane archer abilities can be used with crossbows, if so Helf and Elf are better options than human. If u want to stick with the idea of ranged combat+trapsmith. Maybe a 12bard/6ranger (or fighter)/2 rogue would be better with either elf or helf as race. Range combat in ddo is kinda lacking so maybe going a melee dps route instead would be better, theres alot of builds in the forums that go that way. All in all, if u rly like your build than try out for a few lvl see where it goes.

[unbongwah]

If memory serves me the some of the arcane archer abilities can be used with crossbows

Your memory is faulty: none of the AA abilities / imbues apply to bolts / xbows. There's a lot of overlap in the feats, of course, since Manyshot & Bow STR are the only bow-specific ones, but there's no overlap in abilities.

Downsides to this build: you're missing lvl 5 & 6 bard spells, which means no MCLW nor MCMW (were you just planning to spam CCW with Quick + Max?); you don't need nearly so much CHA on a Virt (esp. w/only 12 bard lvls); and you didn't max out Inspired Atk but took a bunch of (unnecessary IMHO) skill bonuses.

[Lasulie]

Your memory is faulty: none of the AA abilities / imbues apply to bolts / xbows. There's a lot of overlap in the feats, of course, since Manyshot & Bow STR are the only bow-specific ones, but there's no overlap in abilities.

Downsides to this build: you're missing lvl 5 & 6 bard spells, which means no MCLW nor MCMW (were you just planning to spam CCW with Quick + Max?); you don't need nearly so much CHA on a Virt (esp. w/only 12 bard lvls); and you didn't max out Inspired Atk but took a bunch of (unnecessary IMHO) skill bonuses.

Ah me not maxing inspired attack is a mistake, must've missed the last one. Yeah the enhancements are definitly not there yet.
What do you suggest I do with the 3 or so cha points left ?
For healing I was thinking scrolls of heals/CCW spam would be enough at least to off-heal.

[Kmnh]

I would try to fit in one more level of artificer, so you can use Positive Energy Infusion on raid tanks.

[Lasulie]

I would try to fit in one more level of artificer, so you can use Positive Energy Infusion on raid tanks.

but then I would lose virt2 is that worth it?

[Impaqt]

To be blunt. I cant think of a reason I would want that build in a group. If I knew you and knew you were able to play that toon at a high level, no problem. But seeing that mix hit my LFM? Probably gonna pass.

you have none of the desired Artificer Buffs. You are short on Bard songs. You are short on Spell Points.

No. Scrolls of Heal/Cure Serious wounds are not going to keep up end game raids/Epics. and there are LOTS of builds that can toss those scrolls around if need be.


My Criteria for judging my own multiclass builds is something like this.

What does the multiclass give the build that makes it more attractive than a pure class?

Your build is a "Bard" by design.(Due to your icon being bard)

2 Rogue.. Evasion... Traps... Bards with Evasion and Trap skills are good...

6 Artificer.... Ranged damage.. Good.. Traps.. Already have that.... buffs? no important ones ... and now I lose lots of Bard abilities... Not so good

16Bard/2Rogue/2Arti Will basically give you all the benefits you are currently getting AND leave your bard levels high enough to perform well as a Bard.

[Vellrad]

I cant think of a reason I would want that build in a group.

I got one.
The only important reason:
Player clicked my LFM before other player(s).
Thats usually enough.

If he/she can perform well, that great, if not, whatever, at least we will have someone to laugh at

[Lasulie]

Thanks i'll look into how that will change the skill points setup. So MCMW is a realy good spell to have? because i'm losing a lot of damage to get it.

[Enoach]

I'm a bit looser than most on criteria of who to take

However, that being said... without having had experience with you I would be reluctant to take you to fill a specific role outside of Trap smithing.

1) Your Spell Depth, Song Depth and SP Depth seem to be lacking - Many Spell buffs you could provide the party would get nearly the same benefit from Scrolling them

2) Not as a main healer - Lack of any mass healing outside of scrolls makes you at best an off-hand or Single person Healer.

3) Range DPS - while you have it, I'm not sure it will be up to par

Again, all of these are subject to change as I get to know you and can see what you as a player can do with this build. I would be prepared for prejudice as you level up. Look for more static groups to roll with and get yourself known.

[Impaqt]

Thanks i'll look into how that will change the skill points setup. So MCMW is a realy good spell to have? because i'm losing a lot of damage to get it.

exactly what damage are you losing?

nobody is going to look at that build and expect/think big dps.

[Daerwen]

Your memory is faulty: none of the AA abilities / imbues apply to bolts / xbows. There's a lot of overlap in the feats, of course, since Manyshot & Bow STR are the only bow-specific ones, but there's no overlap in abilities.

Downsides to this build: you're missing lvl 5 & 6 bard spells, which means no MCLW nor MCMW (were you just planning to spam CCW with Quick + Max?); you don't need nearly so much CHA on a Virt (esp. w/only 12 bard lvls); and you didn't max out Inspired Atk but took a bunch of (unnecessary IMHO) skill bonuses.

I think it did at one point, i just recently returned to the game and still going through DDowiki to learn what has changed. TY for correcting me, i learn something i didnt know. To the OP i stand with what i said before, going pure would be best if u want to heal, drop the DPS feats and grab more metamagic feats. If you want to do range DPS with the CC ability of the Bard go with 6 lvls of fighter or ranger and use bows with either a elf or Helf for AA.

[Lasulie]

exactly what damage are you losing?

nobody is going to look at that build and expect/think big dps.

Int modifier to repeater damage and the artificer PRE.

[Daerwen]

Int modifier to repeater damage and the artificer PRE.

Not sure how your getting the Int to Dmg, thought it was just rogue Mechs that could do that. Then it has been proven that IDK alot of the new stuff and im still learning. I did take a closer look at the Arti, seems to me that if you go pure arti you will get good ranged dps, traps and the ability to spot heal at times. didnt check the spells for CC capability but I do know that they have alot of good buff spells. If i had the class unlocked i would roll one up and try it out. I do like CC ability of Bard Virtuoso's and if you can get good range dps with it, then the idea is kinda cool. You might want to look at the Uzy builds that are floating around, they add both endless fusillade(xbow) and manyshot(bow), with some adding 10k stars with 6monk lvls.

[Impaqt]

Int modifier to repeater damage and the artificer PRE.

endless fusillade is cool, but at 6 seconds a pop... Not really something worth giving up the bard levels for.

I guess I really dont understand only going 6 Artificer if your really looking to do DPS.

[Lasulie]

endless fusillade is cool, but at 6 seconds a pop... Not really something worth giving up the bard levels for.

I guess I really dont understand only going 6 Artificer if your really looking to do DPS.

Well I wanted to have a balance between DPS and support, so 6 artificer is probably the highest damage gain from artificer levels and then the rest in bard for support (healing/songs (with virt2 good CC)/buffs) and 2 rogues because evasion seems to be mendatory for a lot of traps.

Not sure how your getting the Int to Dmg.

INT mod to damage comes with an artificer spell called insightfull damage. I dont just want ranged damage either, if it realy comes down to sacrificing my damage for support i'll do it.

[Daerwen]

Cool spell, if your willing to drop the dps than Impaqt's idea of going 16 bard/ 2 rogue/ 2 arti will suit you better

[Nyvn]

I think your title should read I can (subparly) do everything, is it enough?

The answer is obviously a resounding NO!

Right now you don't heal as well as a full Arti or a level 16 bard, don't DPS as well as a full Arti, and have none of the important Arti buffs. You trade it for partial Bard songs, and evasion.

You need to narrow your focus, and pick where you want your strengths to be. Realistically you can expect 2 main areas of focus, and a weak third.

[EpiKagEMO]

Its decent since you can pop out potions in replace for mass heals. if you can get the potions to heal enough, then you can drop out a couple of bard levels. Mass cure light? no prob! *Drops a potion* so picking up some healing amp gear might do you good.

UMD will pass since all the classes in your build are UMD favored. so you can buy some heal scrolls and whip out some heals.

Will healing be a problem?
Maybe. I've managed to heal up to level 15 on elite with my 800sp battle cleric, Burn through a couple of heal scrolls, but no higher. 16-20, self healing only Support is a good role for your build.

get elemental weapons, bard songs, and do decent damage.

the biggest problem however, is when there is an artificer and a bard in your party. your pretty much useless unless you do more damage than the artificer(pure), give out weapon imbues to the whole party(which most artificers don't anymore), heal, decent amount of kills, spamming haste for dps.

High level grouping, will not pass. Unless you plan to UMD HOX.

Leveling suggestions, what i usually do:
A=artificer, B=Bard, R=Rogue
R,B,A,B,A,B,B,B,B,A,A,A,A,R,B the rest of the way.

EDIT: Melee might be a good way to go instead of range. less point spread. or pick up twf

P.S. Thank Artificers who give you elemental weapons without asking.

[Momsboys]

ATM On Lamannia i have a 12Bard/6Ranger/2Rouge who does both good ranged(manyshot) and hits decent with 2 swords or a greataxe. he has 40 str buffed (No ship buffs)