Advice for my Rogue

[rgots]

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Hey, I've done some rogues in the past, but never got them very far. I've realized that of all the classes, rogue is probably the one that needs to be planned out the most. I've generated a character up to lvl 20, that I would like people to go over and try and find any flaws. I didn't put down any +2 tomes, because I'm not sure whether I'll actually get any, so I just left them out. My goal here was to make a sneak attack oriented rogue. I'm going with improved feint, because I've read that it can be used to constantly sneak attack a monster. So let me know what you think.

Character Generated Using: DDO Character Generator
Direct Link to Build: http://www.ddochargen.com/home.aspx?build=18161

Rogue 20
Male Halfling - True Neutral
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 1:
Race Selected: Male Halfling
Alignment Selected: True Neutral
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 1)
Abilities Raised: STR: 12, DEX: 18, CON: 14,
INT: 14, WIS: 9, CHA: 11
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +4 (4), Disable Device +4 (4),
Hide +4 (4), Jump +4 (4), Move Silently +4 (4), Open Lock +4 (4),
Search +4 (4), Spot +4 (4), Tumble +4 (4), UMD +4 (4)
Feats Selected: Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I,
Rogue Damage Boost I, Rogue Skill Boost I, Improved Search I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 2:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 2)
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +1 (5), Disable Device +1 (5),
Hide +1 (5), Jump +1 (5), Move Silently +1 (5), Open Lock +1 (5),
Search +1 (5), Spot +1 (5), Tumble +1 (5), UMD +1 (5)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Dexterity I, Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I,
Improved Disable Device I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 3:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 3)
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +1 (6), Disable Device +1 (6),
Hide +1 (6), Jump +1 (6), Move Silently +1 (6), Open Lock +1 (6),
Search +1 (6), Spot +1 (6), Tumble +1 (6), UMD +1 (6)
Feats Selected: Weapon Finesse
Tomes Applied: WIS: +1, CHA: +1
Enhancements Selected: Halfling Dexterity I,
Rogue Faster Sneaking I, Rogue Wrack Construct I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 4:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 4)
Abilities Raised: DEX: 21
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +1 (7), Disable Device +1 (7),
Hide +1 (7), Jump +1 (7), Move Silently +1 (7), Open Lock +1 (7),
Search +1 (7), Spot +1 (7), Tumble +1 (7), UMD +1 (7)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I,
Improved Disable Device II, Improved Move Silently I, Improved Hide I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 5:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 5)
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +1 (8), Disable Device +1 (8),
Hide +1 (8), Jump +1 (8), Move Silently +1 (8), Open Lock +1 (8),
Search +1 (8), Spot +1 (8), Tumble +1 (8), UMD +1 (8)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Damage Boost II,
Improved Move Silently II, Improved Hide II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 6:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +1 (9), Disable Device +1 (9),
Hide +1 (9), Jump +1 (9), Move Silently +1 (9), Open Lock +1 (9),
Search +1 (9), Spot +1 (9), Tumble +1 (9), UMD +1 (9)
Feats Selected: Combat Expertise
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Assassin I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 7:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 7)
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +1 (10), Disable Device +1 (10),
Hide +1 (10), Jump +1 (10), Move Silently +1 (10),
Open Lock +1 (10), Search +1 (10), Spot +1 (10), Tumble +1 (10),
UMD +1 (10)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Skill Boost II,
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 8:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 8)
Abilities Raised: DEX: 22
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +7 (7), Disable Device +1 (11),
Search +1 (11), UMD +1 (11)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 9:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 9)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (8), Bluff +1 (11),
Disable Device +1 (12), Hide +1 (11), Move Silently +1 (11),
Open Lock +1 (11), Search +1 (12), Spot +1 (11), Tumble +1 (11),
UMD +1 (12)
Feats Selected: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Wrack Construct II,
Rogue Faster Sneaking II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 10:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 10)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (9), Bluff +1 (12),
Disable Device +1 (13), Hide +1 (12), Move Silently +1 (12),
Open Lock +1 (12), Search +1 (13), Spot +1 (12), Tumble +1 (12),
UMD +1 (13)
Feats Selected: Improved Evasion
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 11:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 11)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (10), Bluff +1 (13),
Disable Device +1 (14), Hide +1 (13), Move Silently +1 (13),
Open Lock +1 (13), Search +1 (14), Spot +1 (13), Tumble +1 (13),
UMD +1 (14)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 12:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 12)
Abilities Raised: DEX: 23
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (11), Bluff +1 (14),
Disable Device +1 (15), Hide +1 (14), Move Silently +1 (14),
Open Lock +1 (14), Search +1 (15), Spot +1 (14), Tumble +1 (14),
UMD +1 (15)
Feats Selected: Improved Feint
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Assassin II, Rogue Skill Boost III
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 13:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 13)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (12), Bluff +1 (15),
Disable Device +1 (16), Hide +1 (15), Move Silently +1 (15),
Open Lock +1 (15), Search +1 (16), Spot +1 (15), Tumble +1 (15),
UMD +1 (16)
Feats Selected: Slippery Mind
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Skill Boost IV
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 14:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 14)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (13), Bluff +1 (16),
Disable Device +1 (17), Hide +1 (16), Move Silently +1 (16),
Open Lock +1 (16), Search +1 (17), Spot +1 (16), Tumble +1 (16),
UMD +1 (17)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 15:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 15)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (14), Bluff +1 (17),
Disable Device +1 (18), Hide +1 (17), Move Silently +1 (17),
Open Lock +1 (17), Search +1 (18), Spot +1 (17), Tumble +1 (17),
UMD +1 (18)
Feats Selected: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 16:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 16)
Abilities Raised: DEX: 24
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (15), Bluff +1 (18),
Disable Device +1 (19), Hide +1 (18), Move Silently +1 (18),
Open Lock +1 (18), Search +1 (19), Spot +1 (18), Tumble +1 (18),
UMD +1 (19)
Feats Selected: Opportunist
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 17:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 17)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (16), Bluff +1 (19),
Disable Device +1 (20), Hide +1 (19), Move Silently +1 (19),
Open Lock +1 (19), Search +1 (20), Spot +1 (19), Tumble +1 (19),
UMD +1 (20)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 18:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 18)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (17), Bluff +1 (20),
Disable Device +1 (21), Hide +1 (20), Move Silently +1 (20),
Open Lock +1 (20), Search +1 (21), Spot +1 (20), Tumble +1 (20),
UMD +1 (21)
Feats Selected: Hamstring
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Assassin III, Improved Disable Device III,
Rogue Wrack Construct III
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 19:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 19)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (18), Bluff +1 (21),
Disable Device +1 (22), Hide +1 (21), Move Silently +1 (21),
Open Lock +1 (21), Search +1 (22), Spot +1 (21), Tumble +1 (21),
UMD +1 (22)
Feats Selected: Crippling Strike
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Dexterity II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 20:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 20)
Abilities Raised: DEX: 26
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (19), Bluff +1 (22),
Disable Device +1 (23), Hide +1 (22), Move Silently +1 (22),
Open Lock +1 (22), Search +1 (23), Spot +1 (22), Tumble +1 (22),
UMD +1 (23)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Deadly Shadow,
Improved Search II, Improved Search III
Stats at End of Level 20:
HP:180 SP:0 AC:19 FORT:9 REFL:21 WILL:7 BAB:+15/+15/+20/+25
STR:12(+1) DEX:26(+8) CON:14(+2) INT:16(+3) WIS:10(0) CHA:12(+1)
Balance:27, Bluff:29, Concentration:2, Diplomacy:1,
Disable Device:29, Haggle:1, Heal:0, Hide:42, Intimidate:1,
Jump:11, Listen:0, Move Silently:38, Open Lock:30,
Perform: n/a, Repair:3, Search:29, Spot:22, Swim:1, Tumble:30, UMD:24

[Cap_Man]

Hi,

Stats look good although you may want to lower dex a tad and boost your strength.

A couple of things I did notice:

At level 6 you are taking Combat Expertise which I think you are doing because it's a prereq for Improved Feint which you are taking at level 12. So that's two feats so you can automatically bluff+attack for a single attack .. once every 8 seconds? The idea is nice, but it seems like a poor use of two feats when you can just hit 'Bluff' for 4 seconds of multiple sneak attack goodness without any feats.

Here's a link on a discussion about Improved Feint: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=369892

Some use it but it is not highly recommended.

Another thing I noticed is that at level 13 you are taking 'Slippery Mind'. But with your low wisdom score it is only really giving you the ability to fail the same check twice. You would probably be better off with another helping of 'Skill Mastery'.

Another feat you have listed is 'Hamstring'. I have not used that myself but from what I read it just reduces movement by 50% for 12 seconds. That's movement, not attack speed as far as I can tell. If it really only does slow a mob down and that is all then it is a waste as seldom do mobs run away from you ... unless you plan on wearing fearsome armour 24/7.

One more thing, the Assassin prestige is not very good until you can get Assassin II at level 12. What most folks do is go Mechanic and then respec at level 12 to Assassin.

[rgots]

Thank you for the response.

I think I won't worry about improved feint, even if it's as good as I have read, I'm not sure that I'd even need it.

I misread slippery mind, thinking that it would give me +2 to will saves, not a second chance. As such I will swap it out with skill mastery.

What I have read for hamstring, is that it will reduce monsters attack speed, even bosses. Even read someone say "If a rogue has room to take it, take it"

I didn't know about the prestige enhancement choice. I will give that one some thought.

With the drop of the two feats, I'm thinking about taking toughness instead (and drop some of the improved search for enhancement) and take improved Critical.

[Imatotalnoob]

Ok here's the thing

First the other poster is spot on about bluff
Next u can use your off hand to improve your main
attacks until gtwf, which will come late after a toughness
a weapon finess, improved critical and the other twf feats

So carry a max'd crafted sneak attack item in off hand

The next speed!
I can't see any rogue haste boost, and it stacks with haste
Plan is to hit them hard and fast before u get agro

U have the threat reduction stuff I see, u just need the speed

Happy killing!

Cheers mate

[rgots]

Duly noted

So i dropped 2nd level of faster sneaking, wrack construct, and DD, to pick up haste boost IV, and with my extra I got item defense. I'm wondering if maybe I should not take item defense or faster sneaking, and instead get wand and scroll mastery, since I am getting UMD.

[Viciouspika]

Don't take more than one rank in item defense. I would take as many scroll and wand mastery as you can it will be your main sorce of self healing.

Equipment: Get the best spot,search, and disable device items for each level(for elites at level).

Use scrolls, pots, and wands some useful ones(haste, blur, shield, neut. poison, heroism, stoneskin, fireshield, divine power, heal, and restoration to name a few).

Make sure your have enough thieves' tools. Its embarrising when you run out.

Weapons: Bossbeaters, paralysers, Banes, and desception weapons. The last allows you to get sneak attacks every once in a while to great affect use them when I solo.

Skills: Look good you only need half ranks in tumble (or just one), and half ranks in open locks. Put remaining skill points in diplomacy which works wonders when you have bitten off more than you can chew.

Good Luck and Have Fun. Welcome to the shadows

[Imatotalnoob]

Wand and scroll I is a must others up to u

Wreck construct is painful to use
I just buy smiters

I think u need one sneak fast for assassin

Cheers

[wax_on_wax_off]

I'd suggest to take a toughness feat, usually at level 3, rogues don't have much HP and often end up with some hate so toughness really helps.

I'd probably go (in order): toughness, weapon finesse, TWF, ITWF, IC:P, GTWF, Power Attack as feats. The real trick would be to not have to take weapon finesse as you could then fit in hamstring or quickdraw. Do you have half-elf race available?

[xveganrox]

Echoing the other replies a bit but I definitely agree that you'll want to drop CE and Improved Feint in favor of Toughness and Improved Critical. Toughness is crucial for survivability, and Improved Crit is the single largest DPS boost... Power Attack is close behind, though - and if you must go the Weapon Finesse route, I'd suggest dropping Hamstring for Power Attack. I'm a huge fan of Hamstring - it's a fun utility feat and wreaks havoc on the end-game Devil raid bosses when used properly (are we allowed to talk about that? oops), but Power Attack is +5 damage per swing, and that's going to be really useful, especially with a low strength.

For enhancements.. Drop the skill boost late-game and pick up as much Scroll Mastery as you can - you'll love what Heal scrolls can do for you, and by end-game your skills will be higher than you need (especially with a +2 luck item, +4 from GH, and party buffs). Early game the boosts will be nice for traps though, so they're solid early on.

Skill-wise you look fine. Spot, Search, UMD, and DD should be maxed (which you have) and anything else is personal choice - personally, I'd drop all but one of the tumble ranks and pick up Jump ranks, since with your strength you'll be a bit gravity-bound. By end-game you won't need any ranks in jump though, so if you plan to be sitting at 20 for a while Diplomacy would be a better choice.

Anyway - welcome to the rogue club. Good choice picking the best class in DDO

[rgots]

So a good point is brought up. Reason why I was going halfling was for the cunning and guile enhancements, which I did not have the points for. I guess I can open up to other races then, where getting more points into strength won't be such a pain. In that case I'll probably drop my dex to 16, and up my strength to 14. I'll need to look through the different races and see which is best (I'm VIP), but it looks like I'm probably going to need to rebuild my character. I'll still appreciate any ideas or advice, you all have opened my eyes to a lot more than I've seen.

[wax_on_wax_off]

So a good point is brought up. Reason why I was going halfling was for the cunning and guile enhancements, which I did not have the points for. I guess I can open up to other races then, where getting more points into strength won't be such a pain. In that case I'll probably drop my dex to 16, and up my strength to 14. I'll need to look through the different races and see which is best (I'm VIP), but it looks like I'm probably going to need to rebuild my character. I'll still appreciate any ideas or advice, you all have opened my eyes to a lot more than I've seen.

This is my idea of a pure rogue which might be something close to what you're looking for. You can ignore all the end game gear stuff and just make the adjustments for a 32 point/+2 dex tome build and go from there.

[rgots]

Ok, I have taken the advice given here, and built a new character. I am going Half Elf Rogue for the dilettante and the human enhancements.

I'm actually taking the Artificer Dilettante (the website I used didn't have it, so ignore that it says wizard). I'm doing that for the bonus to scroll use, and slightly for the crossbow proficiency. I'm taking the first level of enhancement on it, because that will increase my caster level on potions by 1, which for first level potions, doubles the duration. I'm also not taking other dilettantes because I just don't have the AP to put into them.

I'm taking human versatility instead of rogue skill boost, because they boost skills the same, but versatility does a whole lot more.

For those that ask, I keep upping my tumble because I want to have a high tumble. However I drop jump at 10 points because a simple jump spell can boost it to 40 easy. I drop open lock at 10 points, because I've read that there is no need to go over that.

So let me know what you think about this new build.

Character Generated Using: DDO Character Generator
Direct Link to Build: http://www.ddochargen.com/home.aspx?build=18381

Rogue 20
Male Half-Elf - True Neutral
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 1:
Race Selected: Male Half-Elf
Alignment Selected: True Neutral
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 1)
Abilities Raised: STR: 14, DEX: 16, CON: 14,
INT: 14, WIS: 9, CHA: 11
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +4 (4), Disable Device +4 (4),
Hide +4 (4), Jump +4 (4), Move Silently +4 (4), Open Lock +4 (4),
Search +4 (4), Spot +4 (4), Tumble +4 (4), UMD +4 (4)
Feats Selected: Two Weapon Fighting, Half-Elf Dilettante (Wizard)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I,
Human Versatility I, Rogue Damage Boost I, Rogue Haste Boost I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 2:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 2)
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +1 (5), Disable Device +1 (5),
Hide +1 (5), Jump +1 (5), Move Silently +1 (5), Open Lock +1 (5),
Search +1 (5), Spot +1 (5), Tumble +1 (5), UMD +1 (5)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Dexterity I, Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I,
Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 3:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 3)
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +1 (6), Disable Device +1 (6),
Hide +1 (6), Jump +1 (6), Move Silently +1 (6), Open Lock +1 (6),
Search +1 (6), Spot +1 (6), Tumble +1 (6), UMD +1 (6)
Feats Selected: Toughness
Tomes Applied: WIS: +1, CHA: +1
Enhancements Selected: Elven Dexterity I, Racial Toughness I,
Improved Hide I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 4:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 4)
Abilities Raised: DEX: 19
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +1 (7), Disable Device +1 (7),
Hide +1 (7), Jump +1 (7), Move Silently +1 (7), Open Lock +1 (7),
Search +1 (7), Spot +1 (7), Tumble +1 (7), UMD +1 (7)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I,
Human Improved Recovery I, Improved Move Silently I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 5:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 5)
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +1 (8), Disable Device +1 (8),
Hide +1 (8), Jump +1 (8), Move Silently +1 (8), Open Lock +1 (8),
Search +1 (8), Spot +1 (8), Tumble +1 (8), UMD +1 (8)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Damage Boost II,
Improved Move Silently II, Improved Hide II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 6:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 6)
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +1 (9), Disable Device +1 (9),
Hide +1 (9), Jump +1 (9), Move Silently +1 (9), Open Lock +1 (9),
Search +1 (9), Spot +1 (9), Tumble +1 (9), UMD +1 (9)
Feats Selected: Weapon Finesse
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Assassin I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 7:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 7)
Skills Ranks Raised: Bluff +1 (10), Disable Device +1 (10),
Hide +1 (10), Jump +1 (10), Move Silently +1 (10),
Open Lock +1 (10), Search +1 (10), Spot +1 (10), Tumble +1 (10),
UMD +1 (10)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II,
Human Versatility II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 8:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 8)
Abilities Raised: DEX: 20
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +7 (7), Disable Device +1 (11),
Search +1 (11), UMD +1 (11)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 9:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 9)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (8), Bluff +1 (11),
Disable Device +1 (12), Haggle +1 (1), Hide +1 (11),
Move Silently +1 (11), Search +1 (12), Spot +1 (11),
Tumble +1 (11), UMD +1 (12)
Feats Selected: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancements Selected: Racial Toughness II,
Rogue Haste Boost II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 10:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 10)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (9), Bluff +1 (12),
Disable Device +1 (13), Haggle +1 (2), Hide +1 (12),
Move Silently +1 (12), Search +1 (13), Spot +1 (12),
Tumble +1 (12), UMD +1 (13)
Feats Selected: Improved Evasion
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III,
Improved Wizard Dilettante I
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 11:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 11)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (10), Bluff +1 (13),
Disable Device +1 (14), Haggle +1 (3), Hide +1 (13),
Move Silently +1 (13), Search +1 (14), Spot +1 (13),
Tumble +1 (13), UMD +1 (14)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 12:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 12)
Abilities Raised: DEX: 21
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (11), Bluff +1 (14),
Disable Device +1 (15), Haggle +1 (4), Hide +1 (14),
Move Silently +1 (14), Search +1 (15), Spot +1 (14),
Tumble +1 (14), UMD +1 (15)
Feats Selected: Improved Critical (Piercing)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Assassin II, Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 13:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 13)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (12), Bluff +1 (15),
Disable Device +1 (16), Haggle +1 (5), Hide +1 (15),
Move Silently +1 (15), Search +1 (16), Spot +1 (15),
Tumble +1 (15), UMD +1 (16)
Feats Selected: Skill Mastery
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Haste Boost III
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 14:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 14)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (13), Bluff +1 (16),
Disable Device +1 (17), Haggle +1 (6), Hide +1 (16),
Move Silently +1 (16), Search +1 (17), Spot +1 (16),
Tumble +1 (16), UMD +1 (17)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III,
Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery III
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 15:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 15)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (14), Bluff +1 (17),
Disable Device +1 (18), Haggle +1 (7), Hide +1 (17),
Move Silently +1 (17), Search +1 (18), Spot +1 (17),
Tumble +1 (17), UMD +1 (18)
Feats Selected: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 16:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 16)
Abilities Raised: DEX: 22
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (15), Bluff +1 (18),
Disable Device +1 (19), Haggle +1 (8), Hide +1 (18),
Move Silently +1 (18), Search +1 (19), Spot +1 (18),
Tumble +1 (18), UMD +1 (19)
Feats Selected: Opportunist
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 17:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 17)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (16), Bluff +1 (19),
Disable Device +1 (20), Haggle +1 (9), Hide +1 (19),
Move Silently +1 (19), Search +1 (20), Spot +1 (19),
Tumble +1 (19), UMD +1 (20)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 18:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 18)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (17), Bluff +1 (20),
Disable Device +1 (21), Haggle +1 (10), Hide +1 (20),
Move Silently +1 (20), Search +1 (21), Spot +1 (20),
Tumble +1 (20), UMD +1 (21)
Feats Selected: Hamstring
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Assassin III
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 19:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 19)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (18), Bluff +1 (21),
Disable Device +1 (22), Haggle +1 (11), Hide +1 (21),
Move Silently +1 (21), Search +1 (22), Spot +1 (21),
Tumble +1 (21), UMD +1 (22)
Feats Selected: Crippling Strike
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Haste Boost IV
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 20:
Class Selected: Rogue (Rogue 20)
Abilities Raised: DEX: 23
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (19), Bluff +1 (22),
Disable Device +1 (23), Haggle +1 (12), Hide +1 (22),
Move Silently +1 (22), Search +1 (23), Spot +1 (22),
Tumble +1 (22), UMD +1 (23)
Enhancements Selected: Rogue Deadly Shadow,
Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
Stats at End of Level 20:
HP:222 SP:0 AC:16 FORT:8 REFL:18 WILL:6 BAB:+15/+15/+20/+25
STR:14(+2) DEX:23(+6) CON:14(+2) INT:16(+3) WIS:10(0) CHA:12(+1)
Balance:25, Bluff:29, Concentration:2, Diplomacy:1,
Disable Device:26, Haggle:13, Heal:0, Hide:36, Intimidate:1,
Jump:12, Listen:1, Move Silently:36, Open Lock:16,
Perform: n/a, Repair:3, Search:27, Spot:23, Swim:2, Tumble:28, UMD:24

[Imatotalnoob]

not bad, have fun

[wax_on_wax_off]

Looks a lot better, I think I'll even add Hamstring as a possible level 18 choice to my build.

Regarding your focus on dexterity;
14 base strength +2 tome +1 enhancement +6 item +2 rage +2 madstone +3 abishai set=30
16 base dexterity +2 tome +5 level ups +4 enhancements +6 item +1 LotD=34

What is happening here is that you're paying 1 feat to get +2 AB with an inferior selection of weapons (light weapons/rapiers). Alternatively, if you put those same level ups into intelligence you are at -2 AB but +3 assassinate DC (a massive improvement). Or, into strength gives the same AB but +2 damage.

This obviously relies on gear, epic abishai set, madstone boots and litany of the dead all take a while to get. Also, you can get +6 strength for 3 minutes every shrine from Titan's Grip gloves which are very easy to get now.

That extra feat can be put towards Power Attack which gives +5 damage against low AC enemies. This is important as most undead and constructs have very low AC and against these your damage is very bad due to sneak attack immunity, very good feat to have for these situations and vs portals, when your AB goes up (even temporarily from a friendly bard in party, titan's grip or other buffs) it's an excellent stance to increase your damage particularly against raid bosses (who often have ~50% fortification).

[rgots]

Looks a lot better, I think I'll even add Hamstring as a possible level 18 choice to my build.

Regarding your focus on dexterity;
14 base strength +2 tome +1 enhancement +6 item +2 rage +2 madstone +3 abishai set=30
16 base dexterity +2 tome +5 level ups +4 enhancements +6 item +1 LotD=34

What is happening here is that you're paying 1 feat to get +2 AB with an inferior selection of weapons (light weapons/rapiers). Alternatively, if you put those same level ups into intelligence you are at -2 AB but +3 assassinate DC (a massive improvement). Or, into strength gives the same AB but +2 damage.

This obviously relies on gear, epic abishai set, madstone boots and litany of the dead all take a while to get. Also, you can get +6 strength for 3 minutes every shrine from Titan's Grip gloves which are very easy to get now.

That extra feat can be put towards Power Attack which gives +5 damage against low AC enemies. This is important as most undead and constructs have very low AC and against these your damage is very bad due to sneak attack immunity, very good feat to have for these situations and vs portals, when your AB goes up (even temporarily from a friendly bard in party, titan's grip or other buffs) it's an excellent stance to increase your damage particularly against raid bosses (who often have ~50% fortification).

You do make a point. However two things. One: Rogues only get rapiers and other light weapons in proficiency. If I didn't use weapon finesse, that would only open up Heavy mace on my main hand. Weapon choice isn't an issue. The only way I could open up as a pure rogue, would be if I used master touch scrolls, which can be only bought in the portable hole, not a real option.

Second: I'm not a constant VIP. I've never gotten a character past level 11. I don't know end game content, I've only been a VIP for 2 days. I'm not sure I'll be able to get all the gear and items, or if I'll even make it to end game. Later on, maybe I'll put two points into int, depending on how things are going. I just can't trust to the perfect situation.

Thank you though for your help so far (and to everyone), you've helped me change my rogue for the better.

[wax_on_wax_off]

You do make a point. However two things. One: Rogues only get rapiers and other light weapons in proficiency. If I didn't use weapon finesse, that would only open up Heavy mace on my main hand. Weapon choice isn't an issue. The only way I could open up as a pure rogue, would be if I used master touch scrolls, which can be only bought in the portable hole, not a real option.

Second: I'm not a constant VIP. I've never gotten a character past level 11. I don't know end game content, I've only been a VIP for 2 days. I'm not sure I'll be able to get all the gear and items, or if I'll even make it to end game. Later on, maybe I'll put two points into int, depending on how things are going. I just can't trust to the perfect situation.

Thank you though for your help so far (and to everyone), you've helped me change my rogue for the better.

Masters Touch scrolls are definitely an option I think, nothing wrong with using them at all (if you can't get them just send a tell to a high level wizard who doesn't look to be busy and politely ask them). Epic Midnight Greetings also grants Kukri proficiency so if you get to that stage you can have that in one hand and another kukri in the offhand. EMG is a slashing weapon too which is the reason for improved critical: slashing.

All that said, if you don't think it's likely that you'll get to level 20 then finesse is a good option but then strength and intelligence based are too. In light of that I'd probably just suggest to put all your level ups into strength which will definitely give better attack and damage regardless of gear and you can keep using rapiers if you like.