32pt Horc Monk questions

[Dasthug]

I've been looking through the past few pages of posts to get a feel for builds, and I have a general idea of what I'd like to play but I'm not sure of some of the details. I know I want to go Horc, but that's all I'm really sure of. I'm leaning towards Light/Shintao III, due to being a first life on a server I don't have many resources on (no silver wraps/alch mats) but I could go dark if it seems like a better option. I'm also probably going to use Earth stance as it appears to be the best raw damage stance, as well as having built-in DR.

For stats I'm thinking along the lines of:
Str 16
Dex 15 (+2 tome for ITWF)
Con 16
Wis 14

This leaves me with 2 spare points. Should I bump wis to 15, or put 2 points into int so I can actually keep balance/concentration maxed without totally sacrificing every other skill?

Also, do any of the unarmed Die-step buffs stack? If I'm in earth stance with Jidz bracers and Garments of Equilibrium, what will be the net effect on my punch damage?

Thanks for any input and advice.

[smithj_2020]

I would recommend dark, best DPS. Ninja spy II of course, if your going earth stance possibly bump int to 8 would be a good call. Last I read all of te unarmed die steps do not stack. Stats look right for the build but either increase int or dex to 16. Also if you go earth you should make te build tank worthy because a descent geared earth stance pulls aggro alot due to increased threat of 75% or something crazy like that. You might want to consider another ultimate stance, fire or air.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Half-orc: decent choice if you're light path and/or multi fighter/geared TR due to requiring PA enhancements to make horc worthwhile but the impact that these have on AB.

Dark path/light path: Dark path is a bad choice if you don't have gear and will have AB issues anyway.

Earth stance: Not the best DPS stance, Air is still the best DPS. Never only have earth as far as stances go as it comes with a significant amount of hate and pulling aggro isn't cool unless you're supposed to have aggro. Horc/light path isn't a good choice for earth stance build as helf/dark path can have more healing amp and incorporeality.

For a first life Half-elf/Dark path would be best DPS if you can break DR. Well, any life really in most cases due to versatility: damage.

[Dasthug]

Don't have Half-elf, so it's off the table.

[Dasthug]

I may go with 16 dex/6 int just so both grandmaster wind and fire stances are available if I want to swap between them down the line. If air really is tops damage and all the die step bonuses don't stack, then air with Garment of Equilibrium might make for some pretty nice leveling.

2 skill points a level is enough to keep conc and balance up, and after I eventually get an int tome and I can put a few points into jump.

Also, level up stats: for a Horc, I'm guessing all strength?

Edit: Also, if I do decide to stay light path (which I am still leaning towards, I like the versatility), what's the best feat to pick up to qualify for Shintao I? None of them seem very appealing. Luck of Heroes? Diehard?

[smithj_2020]

Yea all level ups into str for Horc, I don't know what best feat is don't play/like shintao dark is way better dps and ninja spy 2 is one of the best buffs in te game to avoid damage.

I understand shintao has benefits tho, but yea all levels into str

[edgarallanpoe]

I have a Horc Monk at cap and he is a blast to play. As far as the extra 2 points go, I would put them in either Str or Wis. Both have their place. You want to try to get your wis to be as close to 30 as you can so your SF (with +10 wraps) will be 40.

15 starting wis = 15 + 6 item + 3 enhancement (expensive but worth it on this build) + 2 tome + 2 ship buff = 28.

With a +5 spare hand and +10 stunning wraps that would mean a DC of 43 in end game content. That would be a solid DC....not great, but solid.

If you go the Str route then you wis will come out as follows...

14 +6 item + 2 enhancement (no need to go 3 unless you have an exceptional +1 wis item somewhere) + 2 tome +2 ship buff = 26

It's just a drop of 1 DC but that would be a tough call.

As others have said, I would definitely go light path if you don't have the gear. I have played both light and dark to cap and the so called overwhelming DPS of the dark path just doesn't exist. Is it higher? Yes. Is it over the top better? Not even close.

All level ups go to Str.

[Dasthug]

Thanks for the input all.

Edgar: Is the one extra point in Wisdom really worth giving up access to Greater Wind stance, which I've read here and in other threads is the best damage stance?

[edgarallanpoe]

Again, it depends.

I have a Grandmaster Wind monk and a Grandmaster Earth.

You would think from reading some posts that wind would be the "be all, end all" stance. It isn't. Earth is every bit as good. The difference is nowhere near as great as some would have you think. My grandmaster Earth monk also runs around with the Fabricators set. If the tank of the raid is any good you shouldn't pull aggro and if you do, you just "turtle" up and let the main tank get the aggro back. It happens, but only rarely. Now, to be fair, I *rarely* PUG. I am an officer in a large guild with a lot of very good players so I am sure that makes a huge difference.

My Earth stance monk is a max tactics dwarf build and another is a Human. My Wind is a Drow and I also have a halfling ultimate wind. All pure and all capped. The Drow was a dark path and the rest light, including the Horc.

My Horc is actually an Ultimate Fire stance/Wind stance. I chose fire so I could take advantage of the Horc PA and ...well.....because it is *fun* to play. (God forbid) I will use Ultimate wind against raid bosses but the vast majority of the time I am in fire and love it. Is it the "best" stance? For me, yes. Because it fits the build and makes him a nightmare to the opposition. The toon is just a buzzsaw through mobs and a seriously fun build. Hell...I even went with a 20 str to start just to see how it would go. Now, I don't recommend *that*..lol. But seriously, create the build you want and roll with it. Ignore the max DPS crowd. HA! With the Horc PA line and all the bonuses to damage from my (buffed) well over 40 str (46 when the Fabricators set and madstone both proc..lol) I can do more than enough DPS to make it an extremely viable and fun build.

[AzraelDB]

Dabbled in all stances. I currently roll a Shintao III, GM Wind/Fire, Void IV monk that dabbles in Earth stance on occassion. Damage difference isn't too great between Earth and Wind, IMHO. Fire is good for when you're having Ki issues (Oremi's/cannith Frost garments FTW) and Water is awesome for those "no-rogue-kiting-through-traps" situations. As a Void IV monk, I have to have at least tier 3 in all stances, so they all get their fair share of use. In all honesty, pick one of the big 3 (Fire/Earth/Wind) and roll with it. There are successful monks in all 3 of these stances. If you're rolling Half-Orc, your natural choice would be Fire due to their inherent Strength bonuses. However, if you (AND YOU SHOULD) get the TWF tree, you're going to have a heavy investment into Dex (at least 16 with a +1 tome and +2 tomes are easy enough to come by), so rolling with GM Wind would be a nice option to compliment your already high Strength with increased attack speed/chance for double-strike. The increased Crit multiplier with Earth is very nice, but you're going to be critting on a 20 (19-20 with Improved Crit: Bludgeoning) so you may not see those high numbers that often. Also, with Earth, invest in a Greensteel Haste Clicky to help with attack speed woes. I WOULD like to see Water get some love, though...

For Shintao III, the three big feats are Cleave/Luck of Heroes/Combat Expertise (in that order). As a Monk, Power Attack is awesome for the DPS increase and only really needs to be turned off if you are having To-Hit issues. Since it's a prereq for Cleave, naturally they flow into each other. Luck of Heroes is a solid #2 choice, as +1 to saves will bolster your already high saves as a monk. Combat Expertise is a distant third. It's great for AC, but unless you're a double TR with a +4 Int tome to back this up, you're going to be spreading yourself thin on stat points in an already stat-point-starved class. All of the other Feats that would qualify for Shintao I are "junk feats" and (IMHO) should be ignored. Personally, I chose Luck of Heroes if only because I roll GM Wind Stance 99.9% of the time and Cleave only applies to my main hand (confirm?) and not my off-hand attacks. Bummer, really.

If I'm being a bit redundant, forgive me, but I really love my Monk. They make me happy (and they squeek when you poke them in the belly).

[Dasthug]

Thanks again for input folks. I'll probably go with luck of heroes, it may not be an amazing feat but +1 to saves is certainly far from worthless.

[edgarallanpoe]

Thanks again for input folks. I'll probably go with luck of heroes, it may not be an amazing feat but +1 to saves is certainly far from worthless.

Not worthless...but not as useful on a monk because of a Monks godlike saves. With improved evasion and a decent Dex you will rarely take trap damage. The high Wis combined with high base saves make will saves a rare failure as well. I have run ToD with my Horc and only once has he failed his will save on Horoths Banishment...thank god I had a Scarab of Spell absorption on. :P Even Fort saves are rare and remember that monks are immune to disease and poison.

Most monks who take Luck do so because they want to save the extra feat (You need PA to take Cleave...hence two feats when Luck is only one). But not taking Power Attack on this build would be a mistake because you will want to take advantage of the Horc power attack enhancement.

[Dasthug]

Yeah, I'm absolutely taking PA, so cleave might actually make sense.

[edgarallanpoe]

Yeah, I'm absolutely taking PA, so cleave might actually make sense.

If you are already taking power attack than Cleave is a no-brainer IMHO. Another thing to keep in mind is the Monks spell resistance. Again...Luck isn't a bad feat or a waste of a feat, it just isn't the optimal feat for this build.