Dear DDO: Trap Resetting

[Chai]

The other issue I have with this is the AI in this game can be strangled with a cordless phone.

Gaming the AI isnt tough, and it would stand in the trap and kill itself many times, which isnt all that realistic.

[Phidius]

The key is that it doesn't trigger for you. If you're able to just walk though at-level elite traps without batting an eye than I envy you, but most can't.
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Only if the panel is on the other side, and I do my best to time them. I consider a high reflex and evasion to be insurance against the chance that I'm not as skillful as I think I am

...
Basically it would disable the trap as normal so that it doesn't trigger for you but at the same time will trigger for enemies instead.

Ah, I see. So the idea is to assign traps to a faction, making it so they don't hurt their own side, and then adding the ability to change which side they are on?

For the most part, I find the fact that traps damage everyone to be a delighful spice to keep things interesting. If traps stopped harming the mobs, I'd be sad.

[bloodnose13]

This is probably asking a bit too much, but I wanted to throw the idea out there.

Wouldn't it be nice if traps could not only be disabled but could also be reset? The idea being that the trap would then effect your opponents rather than your teammates.

1. For balance, you would have to chose between disabling the trap (and receiving trap parts) or resetting the trap (directing it towards enemies).
2. Traps in dungeons would be more likely to be themed if they could be turned against the denizens (i.e. fire traps in a dungeon with fire elementals and fire resistant creatures).
3. New tactical situations! Fighting in that spike trap could turn out to be advantageous.
4. There is some precedence for this. Secure the Area quest in the Ruins of Threnal allows a stealthy character to use traps against opponents.
5. Resetting traps could have a higher DC than disable (to better match PnP bypass).

This would mean that enemies would need to roam a lot more, and they cant since they are bound to their spawn points that they cant go out of range of, if they do they recall back, idea is good but would not work in ddo without reworking whole spawning mechanics and ai, not to mention all quests.

what i would love to see is the ability to use repair skill and trap parts to Fix the broken, blown trap box, currently if rogue blows up trap box it punishes whole party, this way it would give another reason to actualy place points into repair skill and punish only trap blowing rogue.

[valarx]

For the most part, I find the fact that traps damage everyone to be a delighful spice to keep things interesting. If traps stopped harming the mobs, I'd be sad.

In thinking this through some more, I agree. Traps should target anyone in the area of their effect. However, I would like to change who triggers the traps (mobs or players).

[valarx]

This would mean that enemies would need to roam a lot more, and they cant since they are bound to their spawn points that they cant go out of range of, if they do they recall back, idea is good but would not work in ddo without reworking whole spawning mechanics and ai, not to mention all quests.

My idea wasn't to lead the entire dungeon through the same trap, but rather just to make tactical use of a trap close to a group of mobs. The concept goes something like this:

1. Disable Device is used to reset trap.
2. Ranged attacks pull mob melees to your group.
3. Melees trigger trap on the way to your group and take some extra damage.

Alternatively you could have your melees run through the trap and start attacking. Any mobs that aggro on the casters would have to cross the trap (and take damage) before reaching the casters.

what i would love to see is the ability to use repair skill and trap parts to Fix the broken, blown trap box, currently if rogue blows up trap box it punishes whole party, this way it would give another reason to actualy place points into repair skill and punish only trap blowing rogue.

This is a really great idea.

[valarx]

Gaming the AI isnt tough, and it would stand in the trap and kill itself many times, which isnt all that realistic.

Yeah, neither is my healer hireling standing in the middle of a trap trying to heal themselves over and over again.

You're going to see things like hold, paralyze, and dance used to lock mobs down in area of effects regardless. This is why we would be likely to see more themed setups. Fire elementals won't care if they get stuck in fire traps. And skeletons/zombies can shrug off some of the damage from piercing traps.

Where traps will really be exploited is in elite content where trap damage is so high. But given the general toughness of elite mobs, I don't think I have too much of a problem with that as far as balance is concerned.

[TheDjinnFor]

Ah, I see. So the idea is to assign traps to a faction, making it so they don't hurt their own side, and then adding the ability to change which side they are on?

I said "trigger", not "damage".

Traps already have a "faction", insofar as they don't activate when the enemy walks across the trigger area. I wasn't saying anything about who gets damaged by it.

[Calebro]

In thinking this through some more, I agree. Traps should target anyone in the area of their effect. However, I would like to change who triggers the traps (mobs or players).

I don't see why it matters. Mob AI in this game is bad enough that you can easily get them to follow you through a trap if you desire. As long as they go through it, who cares who actually triggers it?
Only an extremely miniscule portion of the player base would use traps this way.
Search for the trap. Disarm the trap. Reset the trap. Aggro the mobs. Draw them into the trap. = five steps, three of which are slow.
The option we have now is: Aggro the mobs. Trigger the trap. (or swap those two in order) Draw them into the trap. = three steps, none of which are slow.
The second (and currently implemented) way is faster by quite a bit. It serves the exact same function. And still very few people do it. If you slow it down, practically no one would ever do it.
Requesting that Devs spend time coding traps to do this would be a huge waste of their time, because they already damage mobs. Which of us actually triggers the trap is irrelevant.

[phillymiket]

I'd love anything that puts more "thief" in the "rogue" class.

I just can't get my head around the fact that rogues are too often sneak attack based DPS and other skills are in the back seat. (Maybe I just play them wrong)

I figure a game wide change to traps would be hard but how about new quests introduce some new things to future content? That way, mob AI could be placed in a controlled setting with the new features that wouldn't break the game with out worrying whether these elements would interact poorly if they were added to all traps.

Stuff like:

- A trap that can be re-armed as OP suggested. (basically a switch that needs a skill check and tools)

- Random traps.

- Side objectives that utilize other rogue skills like maybe a (not needed for completion) objective that requires you to cross a pressure plate floor that takes a Move Silently check or delivers deadly damage. Maybe things that you don't search for but rather listen for. (not enough to need have invested points but enough of a check that you might need a Listen+15 and Wis+6 items to succeed.

- More thing that can be sneaked. Not whole quests but just some things that reward sneaking rather then penalize. As it is now sneaking means the party is slowed down;everybody waits while the one person with sneak skill does their thing; you losexp because mobs that would go toward conquest aren't killed. Why not have more mobs that if you can not kill them you get enough xp/loot to make stealth worth it.

- More stuff like Party Crashers where Buff and Diplo change the story arc. (Maybe not bluffing away the WHOLE end fight but some stuff.)

- Little touches like maybe a guy that you need to kill to get one of those giant crests that open doors in DDO (pity the dungeon janitor) but you get a nice perk if you can Assassinate him. (or other stuff like that).

Anyway, I enjoyed reading the posts above.
.

[macubrae]

...but why can't you just disarm the trap, place one of your own crafted traps and a noise maker, and there you go. Similar effect, they cause trap to go off, they take damage and die. Or do you want all traps to work like in Gwylan's Stand and effect anyone that wanders through them?

Personally, I like it when traps and AoE spells effect everything in the AoE range. How is a firewall spell selective with who it damages. In PnP, if you drop a fireball at your own feet, you better have remembered to cast fire resistance or the DM will catch you with that every time. It's what they do.

Your rogue has the ability to make traps, sneak around and place a few. When they begin to notice you, walk them through the traps. Make an area look like undermined and lead a pack of them over it and watch the fireworks. Fire... Ooooo! Acid... Aaaah! Lightning...Whooow! Cold... Brrrrrr! Spikes... hee hee hee! When it's all over, you've already sneaked back and backstabbed the redname enough times to kill him.

EASY!!!

[EpiKagEMO]

sounds like a fun fact since all mobs/hirelings get +20 reflex to traps i believe.

[tuggyne_7402]

Found this thread while getting ready to post a very similar suggestion

Some notes on what I've seen so far: As far as I know, most enemies are able to trigger and be damaged by most traps. Hirelings also trigger and are damaged by traps. Summons, however, do not.

So my suggestion would be to treat the party as summons for the purpose of the suborned trap.

Furthermore, PnP already has this set up as part of disable device; if you hit the DC with a check result of at least 10 over, you bypass the trap with your entire party without disabling it. Therefore, I suggest that on a critical success, a trap will consider your entire party to be immune (summon-style); monsters would be treated the usual way still.

Presumably a critical success in this case would mean that you don't salvage any trap parts, but oh well.


So, how would this look in-game? Rogue/arti finds trap, disables it, trap stops running and panel opens, rogue might make note of critical success but otherwise it's just like a regular disarm -- until the monsters come along and get pwned.

Sure, it's an edge case, but it would still be awesome.

[~Quilny]

This is probably asking a bit too much, but I wanted to throw the idea out there.

Wouldn't it be nice if traps could not only be disabled but could also be reset? The idea being that the trap would then effect your opponents rather than your teammates.

1. For balance, you would have to chose between disabling the trap (and receiving trap parts) or resetting the trap (directing it towards enemies).
2. Traps in dungeons would be more likely to be themed if they could be turned against the denizens (i.e. fire traps in a dungeon with fire elementals and fire resistant creatures).
3. New tactical situations! Fighting in that spike trap could turn out to be advantageous.
4. There is some precedence for this. Secure the Area quest in the Ruins of Threnal allows a stealthy character to use traps against opponents.
5. Resetting traps could have a higher DC than disable (to better match PnP bypass).

/signed

+1

Love IT

[Antheal]

Griefer: "Don't worry, I reset the trap so it'll only hurt enemies now."

*ding*

Griefer: "LOL"

[tuggyne_7402]

Griefer: "Don't worry, I reset the trap so it'll only hurt enemies now."

*ding*

Griefer: "LOL"

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I think it should be an automatic result of Disable Device; if your check is high enough, the trap looks visibly disabled (control box open, etc), but still works against enemies.

[ThePrincipal]

they need to fix the bombs and traps that rogues can already make first. friendly traps already exsist in the game. i used to carry a stack of them... but they're really weak, really slow and expensive to make. just a silly flavor thing that needs moar attention.

[valarx]

they need to fix the bombs and traps that rogues can already make first. friendly traps already exsist in the game. i used to carry a stack of them... but they're really weak, really slow and expensive to make. just a silly flavor thing that needs moar attention.

Agreed, I've got a stockpile of parts because the crafted traps are just too expensive, too difficult, and too ineffective to use.

The traps in dungeons are often thought out and more interesting than the 'land mines' that rogues can craft.

I'm wondering if rogues will get some of the new magical traps out of the new content too. They seem to work much like the landmines, but have more interesting effects.