Dear DDO: Trap Resetting

[valarx]

This is probably asking a bit too much, but I wanted to throw the idea out there.

Wouldn't it be nice if traps could not only be disabled but could also be reset? The idea being that the trap would then effect your opponents rather than your teammates.

1. For balance, you would have to chose between disabling the trap (and receiving trap parts) or resetting the trap (directing it towards enemies).
2. Traps in dungeons would be more likely to be themed if they could be turned against the denizens (i.e. fire traps in a dungeon with fire elementals and fire resistant creatures).
3. New tactical situations! Fighting in that spike trap could turn out to be advantageous.
4. There is some precedence for this. Secure the Area quest in the Ruins of Threnal allows a stealthy character to use traps against opponents.
5. Resetting traps could have a higher DC than disable (to better match PnP bypass).

[Habreno]

TELL ME MOAR!

I would love to see this idea expanded upon.

[Mastikator]

/signed
and
/signed wanting to read more

[PNellesen]

/signed!

Great idea! SO many possibilities here.

[Diyon]

This is probably asking a bit too much, but I wanted to throw the idea out there.

Wouldn't it be nice if traps could not only be disabled but could also be reset? The idea being that the trap would then effect your opponents rather than your teammates.

1. For balance, you would have to chose between disabling the trap (and receiving trap parts) or resetting the trap (directing it towards enemies).
2. Traps in dungeons would be more likely to be themed if they could be turned against the denizens (i.e. fire traps in a dungeon with fire elementals and fire resistant creatures).
3. New tactical situations! Fighting in that spike trap could turn out to be advantageous.
4. There is some precedence for this. Secure the Area quest in the Ruins of Threnal allows a stealthy character to use traps against opponents.
5. Resetting traps could have a higher DC than disable (to better match PnP bypass).

They already have the tech done for this. The reason you see critical successes on trap disabling now is because when you get that on one of the magefire cannons in House Cannith, its now YOUR cannon.

[Rizzia]

You can allready kill mobs with the existing dugeon traps. Anyhows traps (not turrets) arent on anyones side, if you were to fight in a spike trap "resetting" it would still require you to make a saving throw, same as mobs do currently.

[valarx]

You can allready kill mobs with the existing dugeon traps. Anyhows traps (not turrets) arent on anyones side, if you were to fight in a spike trap "resetting" it would still require you to make a saving throw, same as mobs do currently.

I've seen this behavior in some dungeons when a hireling went chasing after a mob and both ended up fighting each other inside the trap. The problem is that traps only seem to activate due to player interaction, at least from my perspective. Mobs crossing the trigger location don't seem to cause them to activate (which is why I and others largely assume mobs are unaffected by them). There's also the fact that there are no damage numbers, so the only way to tell the trap is affecting mobs is to watch their health bars. If traps triggered for both mobs and players, that would make more sense.

[Diyon]

I've seen this behavior in some dungeons when a hireling went chasing after a mob and both ended up fighting each other inside the trap. The problem is that traps only seem to activate due to player interaction, at least from my perspective. Mobs crossing the trigger location don't seem to cause them to activate (which is why I and others largely assume mobs are unaffected by them). There's also the fact that there are no damage numbers, so the only way to tell the trap is affecting mobs is to watch their health bars. If traps triggered for both mobs and players, that would make more sense.

Well there are traps that once triggered, just keep going.

[valarx]

They already have the tech done for this. The reason you see critical successes on trap disabling now is because when you get that on one of the magefire cannons in House Cannith, its now YOUR cannon.

Yes. It would be nice to see similar functionality on other traps as well. I really liked the way the magefire cannons worked.

[valarx]

TELL ME MOAR!

I would love to see this idea expanded upon.

It's a bit off topic of the initial thread, but it would be nice if there were alternate ways to disable traps as well. For example:

1. Some physical traps (spikes, flame jets, etc.) could be destroyed if enough damage is done to them. This would require revealing the trap first (by searching or setting it off) and then it may require taking some damage while in the trap attacking it, unless you had a viable ranged option. Traps could have fairly high DRs (DR 10/- or DR 20/- depending on level) to prevent everyone from just shooting some arrows to deal with them. In the long run it may end up being easier just avoiding them, but I could also see situations arise where a meaty character was sent in to deal with a trap so that the squishier ones could get through. Barbarians could be especially good at trap-beating with their trap sense.

2. Some arcane traps could be disabled for a time by using Dispel or Greater Dispel. Probably just enough time to get a party through. This gives casters a way to bypass some traps.

Overall, I'm not certain yet how I really feel about the above two, because they do in some ways detract from a rogue's disarm. However, they each have a unique flavor and rogue's disables would be superior since they would remove the trap permanently and without much risk. Oh, and lets not forget that in the cases where you roll a 1 and the panel explodes, it gives the party some other options.

[parowan]

Something along these general lines would be worthwhile, although I'm not sure what it would mean to "convert" a spike trap when it already just hurts anyone, player or mob, who walks through it.

I'd sooner give priority to improving the mines and grenades that can be crafted - perhaps giving the Mechanic prestige some much more significant bonuses.

[Calebro]

The problem is that traps only seem to activate due to player interaction

This makes sense though. WAI
If you set a trap in your own home to protect yourself and your family, you would **** well know how to navigate past it without triggering it. The burglar in your home would not.
Mobs should absolutely NOT trigger their own traps. If the trap is sprung while they are in the area, they are affected just as we are, but they will not spring it themselves. This is working exactly as intended.

If traps triggered for both mobs and players, that would make more sense.

No, it wouldn't. That would make no sense at all.
If you set a tripwire, you would know where you needed to step high to avoid it. If you weakened and/or loosened floorboards over a spike pit, you would know where *not* to step. The traps in a dungeon were set by the denizens of that area. They would know how to avoid triggering them. Mobs setting off the traps that they prepared themselves would make zero sense.

[TheDjinnFor]

This makes sense though. WAI
If you set a trap in your own home to protect yourself and your family, you would **** well know how to navigate past it without triggering it. The burglar in your home would not.
Mobs should absolutely NOT trigger their own traps. If the trap is sprung while they are in the area, they are affected just as we are, but they will not spring it themselves. This is working exactly as intended.

No, it wouldn't. That would make no sense at all.
If you set a tripwire, you would know where you needed to step high to avoid it. If you weakened and/or loosened floorboards over a spike pit, you would know where *not* to step. The traps in a dungeon were set by the denizens of that area. They would know how to avoid triggering them. Mobs setting off the traps that they prepared themselves would make zero sense.

You missed the context of the post, which was a response claiming that traps were actually neutral. The post you're replying to was explaining why this isn't the case by pointing out the ways in which enemies aren't affected by traps.

[Calebro]

You missed the context of the post, which was a response claiming that traps were actually neutral. The post you're replying to was explaining why this isn't the case by pointing out the ways in which enemies aren't affected by traps.

No, the post I'm replying to isn't pointing out ways in which enemies aren't affected by traps. It is claiming that they don't appear to be affected (even though they are) and requesting that mobs should trigger their own traps (which they shouldn't).
You're the one that missed the context, my friend.

[valarx]

This makes sense though. WAI
If you set a trap in your own home to protect yourself and your family, you would **** well know how to navigate past it without triggering it. The burglar in your home would not.
Mobs should absolutely NOT trigger their own traps. If the trap is sprung while they are in the area, they are affected just as we are, but they will not spring it themselves. This is working exactly as intended.



No, it wouldn't. That would make no sense at all.
If you set a tripwire, you would know where you needed to step high to avoid it. If you weakened and/or loosened floorboards over a spike pit, you would know where *not* to step. The traps in a dungeon were set by the denizens of that area. They would know how to avoid triggering them. Mobs setting off the traps that they prepared themselves would make zero sense.

This was actually the original aim of the post. By resetting a trap, a rogue could do something like move the tripwire. So, the player party would know where the trap trigger was but the mobs wouldn't. So mob triggered, but not player triggered.

Here are just a number of ways that trap triggers could be altered:
1. tripwires could be repositioned to a different location.
2. floorplates could be reweighted to trigger on a different weight scale
3. area sensors could be realigned to trigger a different area
4. magical traps could be adjusted to trigger for a different creature type

Given that explaining all of these in game could get cumbersome, it's easier to just go with a blanket rule of resetting a trap causes mobs to trigger it, rather than the party. There are always traps within game that can't be modified this way (spike pit traps come to mind) but it seems reasonable that anything with a control panel should be able to be modified.

[TheDjinnFor]

It is claiming that they don't appear to be affected (even though they are) and requesting that mobs should trigger their own traps (which they shouldn't).

Actually, it's NOT requesting that mobs should trigger their own traps. That's the important context you missed.

I'll highlight the relevant part of the discussion:

Wouldn't it be nice if traps could not only be disabled but could also be reset? The idea being that the trap would then effect your opponents rather than your teammates.

Traps arent on anyones side, if you were to fight in a spike trap "resetting" it would still require you to make a saving throw, same as mobs do currently.

The problem is that traps only seem to activate due to player interaction. Mobs crossing the trigger location don't seem to cause them to activate. If traps triggered for both mobs and players, that would make more sense.

Person A says "wouldn't it be cool if traps could be reset so that they're on your side?"
Person B replies "traps aren't on anybodies side, they're neutral".
Person A responds with "the problem with that line of thinking is that mobs don't trigger traps; if traps were really neutral then traps would trigger for both mobs and players".
You say "It makes perfect sense and it's WAI that traps don't trigger for enemies".

As you can see your statements weren't relevant to the actual discussion that was occurring between the two people.

Edit: lol neg rep. It's just sad, really.

[Phidius]

While this is all very interesting, I fail to see how being able to reset a trap so that it is triggered by enemy mobs would have any impact on the game. If you have the time to "reset" a trap, why not just trigger it and aggro the mobs through it?

[TheDjinnFor]

While this is all very interesting, I fail to see how being able to reset a trap so that it is triggered by enemy mobs would have any impact on the game. If you have the time to "reset" a trap, why not just trigger it and aggro the mobs through it?

The key is that it doesn't trigger for you. If you're able to just walk though at-level elite traps without batting an eye than I envy you, but most can't.

Basically it would disable the trap as normal so that it doesn't trigger for you but at the same time will trigger for enemies instead.

[Chai]

Once again this is a mechanic more primitive but also more true to D&D games like NWN get right and DDO gets wrong. In NWN when you roll a crit success, you get the trap at the same stats it was set at - with the one difference that your DC is based on your set trap skill (different than disable). Here in DDO you scavenge parts then have to log a wizard on and TTS a bunch of elementals or some such mob just to make traps that are even remotely worth it.

In order to do what the OP is asking in NWN you would disable the trap then set it back up.

[daniel7]

So your party gets to the end of Tangleroot on elite. You disable the trap and then rearm it. You and your party can now walk by it without it going off. You open the door and kite the mob through the trap after you walk through it without triggering it.

Your rogue not only probably saved a few level 5 party members from dying (saves xp) he also killed the swarm of mobs that were also going to kill some of those level 5 party members. Everyone gives the rogue a high five and gets his/her flesh render goggles. Oh glorious day.