Endgame viability of fighter-splashed, somewhat melee-focused cleric?

[assimilateur]

7 to-hit isn't crippling, but it's not nothing either. That said, you're already comfortable with "inferior melee DPS", so a few misses in less than all content shouldn't bother you.

You have to admit, missing - assuming it happens noticeably more often than the mandatory ~5% - is probably more demoralizing than doing inferior damage. Here's hoping that with maxing and leveling strength that can be avoided, if not I'm just going to have to deal with it.

And I get what you're saying about there not being much reason to bother with boss beaters, but with Cannith crafting that is now made cheap and easy. Inventory-wise I'd be looking at: min2, holy silver of lawful outsider bane, holy cold iron of chaotic outsider bane, something with smiting on it or holy adamantine of construct bane, maybe triple-positive. That said the boss/construct beater options aren't really that superior to min2, so there's that.

You can fake your way around the quests with a terror, a GH clickie and tons of to-hit gear. You can even do that in a caster-type FvS.

I like Terror as much as the next guy but I think relying too much on a gimmick like that would make me feel like a one-trick pony. So I'm hoping that with the appropriate gear and stats I'd go somewhat beyond that.

[firemedium_jt]

Those feats look good so far.

Improved critical slash
Heighten for DCs especially if you lower WIS.

Extend
is a waste above lvl 6-9. Just take divine power on a clickie item and hot key it. It is a few less HP, but so what. Save the SP even with extend on. Divine Favor is cheap. They both cast very fast.


If you do not take improved critical slash dont bother raising str for melee. It is important for so many nice weapons like ESOS, SOS, Terror, Greensteel, Antique Great Ax, EAGA. Yeah you can take keen and should to lvl 12.

Improved Critical Slash is the most important melee feat for you to take IMHO.

STR is viable to lvl raise, but you can raise WIS instead and still hit most trash. With good gear you will hit with STR14-16 base. CON is more important than CHR, and turns can get gotten with enhancements and gear. CON 14 is min. 12 on a Elf. Maybe more on a Dwarf.

True resurrection is not as important as Implosion. Resurrection is enough.

You can have a WIS 16-18 base and still do good melee in elite and epic. You do not have to gimp you blade barrier, and implosion.

You can use master's touch scrolls instead of FTR splash and stay pure, but need a WIZ to cast it if you use a 2-hander. I like the extra feats from the lvls. Maybe even and splash of one lvl of ART or WIZ for Force Manipulation 1 and a meta feat. You can do FTR1 or WIZ1 (cast Master's Touch) or FTR2 or FTR1/WIZ1 or even FTR2/WIZ1 (3 more feats) and still heal just fine. Monk needs more reflex.

Nice thing about a Cleric is you do not have to stay pure to heal just fine, and can really splash and build whatever as long as you can Mass Heal/Heal/Heal Scroll when you are suppose to.

Then there is Favored Soul. Hard not to stay pure with them.

Post your build.

[Phidius]

The Sora Kell set (Helm, Gloves, Ring) is ideal for the build you are talking about, at least until you start collecting multiple greensteel accessories and epic gear. Wis + Cha + Str + Greater Potency IV + 2 hit + 2 damage?

I just managed to squeeze it onto my level 13 clonk last night - had to give up some HP to do it, but it'll be worth it.

[Phidius]

Those feats look good so far.

Improved critical slash
Heighten for DCs especially if you lower WIS.

Extend
is a waste above lvl 6-9. Just take divine power on a clickie item and hot key it. It is a few less HP, but so what. Save the SP even with extend on. Divine Favor is cheap. They both cast very fast.

I disagree - stay focused. Taking Heighten and dumping Wisdom is (IMHO) wasting a feat.

I'm torn on extend - I carry it on all my casters, but I can understand why one might decide to dump it. Personally, I hate recasting buffs - especially Divine Power and Divine Favor. My wizard carries a single Divine Power clicky, and typically shrines with many charges remaining.

[assimilateur]

Am I missing something here? How is a divine power clicky going to last me through more than a boss fight? Are you assuming shrines every ~5 minutes of fighting or me not using the spell on trash or what?

Regarding heighten, I'm not feeling the feat either. Maybe if I went with high wisdom after all, but at this point in my musings and the advice I've been getting that's unlikely. I won't use the word "dump" for what I'm doing either: will most likely stay at 12 on the fighter/cleric I've already rolled, though I'll consider dumping it if I roll a favored soul.

Regarding constitution, I'm taking 16. In fact I don't remember when I last took anything less in con; only playing dwarves makes that decision easier anyway.

My reasoning for possibly taking extra turning is that I'm loving auras and bursts on my clonk so far, and I believe they're the main selling point of taking cleric instead of favored soul. But maybe the number of them turns out to be overkill, we'll see. Extend also looks nice for the short-term buffs. But I'm considering it more from the perspective of mana savings, since having to recast two spells every two minutes isn't that big a deal. When playing my monk in ToD the buff I have to use is on a one-minute timer and far more fiddly so I think I could live with over two minutes at endgame for divine power and favor.

[firemedium_jt]

I have divine power on an item like bracers, boots, gloves, goggles. I have it on my 'e' key. When I decide a melee opportunity arises I click it. It activates and I have Divine power +6 str, attack as FTR BAB just like the spell. Most items are caster lvl7, so you get 7 HP instead of your lvl in HP. You save 35sp. 45 if you use extend. That is a heal spell right there in sp cost. I have a STR+6 item also, so Divine Power is for to hit mostly on a clickie. I have 3 items with Divine Power for about 12-15 clicks. When I use one up I swap the shortcuts out to my 'e' key.

Divine Favor is 10 sp and 20 sp with extend. I cast this first because it is only 10 sp for +3 to hit and +3 to damage.

I also have fighter haste as I have a FTR lvl. It is on my 'q' key. I click this next as it stacks with Haste.

I also have 2 rage click items, but that is usually cast on me.

For bosses my next click is DM1, but I usually save my turns for bursts. Just a nice Rad Serv 1 Pre req for soloing. I prob click DM after resting going in for the end fight ahead of time.

This is how I melee buff myself. Three button presses mostly from my keyboard and mouse.

Maybe prayer and recitation for longer fights. Pricey in sp. Close to a heal spell in sp. But if I got the group around me it is worth it. Divine Punishment and Blade barrier are better for damage than prayer and recitation for damage and spell point conservation. Using all 4 if you can for long fights.

I try not to spend too much in sp to melee, so I can heal and offensive cast more. I like DP and BB to add to my damage. I took a WIS16 on my human CLR18/FTR2. lvl ups in WIS for BB and implosion. FTR feats are IC: Slash and Power Attack. SF evocation feats too on this first life. STR13(14) with +6 item and I hit just fine in elite (FTR STR1 evens it out to 14). I do ok with epic mobs too. Human versatility at low lvl to hit and with PA on all the time I hit. Damage instead at mid to high lvl. Back to "to hit" for epic.

I rarely use bursts to heal the party in combat at lvl20 unless I run out of sp and decide to melee. When this rarely happens I might drink a pot if we are not close to completion and I am the only divine. If other divine has sp i usually melee when out of sp. I cast aura and run in to swing and burst and use heal scrolls. Most healing is mass heal/heal/heal scroll at high lvl. So lots of CHR does not help much in high lvls for healing. Maybe DM3. But I like turns for bursts and auras better. It saves sp for casting in between fights at high lvl. Saves money on scrolls too.

Just got Titan's grip (STR+6 +6 stacked) and Terror in 6 runs at Inspired Quarter, so 4 buttons now to click.

[Mubjon]

I am of a different opinion where extend is concerned on a melee focus Divine.

Yes you can use clickies and while I have some, it does not take away from the fact that an extended divine power/favor/recitation is beneficial to melee needs. It saves from having to swap out equipment (which takes away from curing, swinging, or casting offensively) in the middle of a crucial fight.

There is plenty to keep an eye on and making sure that you are able to cast a clickie while try to also hit someone with a cure spell or casting a comet fall to help keep damaging from coming is something that is priceless.

[Sarisa]

I like Extend because I do a lot of long, resource tight epics like eChains. Extend is a net savings on SP for that type of quest, and to keep Prayer and Holy Aura as buffs (since the debuff aspects of Holy Aura got nerfed heavily) up. Recitation too if the people in party don't have Luck items/blue slots.

It does come down to personal opinion. I didn't have it on my 17/3 Clonk, simply because I couldn't fit Extend in along with the other casting feats along with the Stunning Fist boosting feats. I won't have Extend on my caster's current FvS life either.

[Kinerd]

Most healing is mass heal/heal/heal scroll at high lvl.

This stood out to me, and in a way I disagree. The quoted comment is very true for raid bosses and not at all true for other content: 6 man questing, challenging, etc. It is in that second set where battleclerics/clonks shine; in the first set everyone collapses into either fully devoted to healing or fully devoted to meleeing, as you describe. Depending on the group, I have found that challenges especially can represent a huge majority over raid boss fights at high level, and casting Mass Heal in challenges is super duper pointless.

You have to admit, missing - assuming it happens noticeably more often than the mandatory ~5% - is probably more demoralizing than doing inferior damage. Here's hoping that with maxing and leveling strength that can be avoided, if not I'm just going to have to deal with it.

I am a fairly attentive, math-intensive person and unless I am watching the dice I would be hard-pressed to tell when marginal misses are occurring. Have faith in your lack of roboticism, and I think you will maintain a positive emotional state.

[assimilateur]

I don't expect to be able to tell missing on a 3 from missing on a 2, but missing on a 6 or a 10 I think I'd notice. That's what I was worried about, but again, based on my current experience with my monk (who only hits around 30 strength and isn't well geared yet) I expect maxed and leveled strength plus buffs to be good enough.

I won't get started on this toon until I cap or almost cap my clonk though, and I'm still not dismissing the idea of going pure favored soul instead of splashed cleric.

[ThePrincipal]

the only problem i've run into with a melee cleric in epics, isnt the melee cleric, it's the group. they require massive amounts of babysitting. if you run with a epic ready group, you'll have that much more opportunity to melee

[assimilateur]

As much as I enjoy it more on my clonk now when I have to heal less and can fight or offensively cast more, I can't generally blame people who play fighters, barbarians, etc., for requiring "babysitting". I'm in the same boat when I play my fighter, unless the group is so overwhelming DPS-wise that we breeze right through the quest.

That's just how the game is balanced. If you don't have a blue bar (and in some cases not even then) your self-healing is at the very least expensive (scrolls) or woefully inadequate during an intense encounter as well (potions, wands).

[erikbozelie]

Fighter

Cleric
20 BAB (with Power)
+3 Divine Favor
=
23

i am sure there are more bonusses then this:
+4 greater bane
+4 greater large guild augment slot.
+5 enhancement
+4 battle attack goggles
+1 haste
+5 sneak attack(tharnes or the like).
+2 good luck

=48 before strength, or any named set bonus.

[assimilateur]

And none of those item-based bonuses have anything to do with the classes he was comparing.

[Nonny9]

ave an 17/1 clrc/ftr w/ 2ftr past lives. I didn't put a single bit of feats into the melee side except for 2HW (uses gs great axe). I went with horc for str. The toon crits avg about 130 mg and hits with almost every wing. I've had a clonk before; i'd take 1 ftr over 2 monk any day of the week. This toon can solo (on norm) at level just about eveerything, includong some stuff on hard (w/out a hireling). I'm going to start gearing this toon as it has nothing epic on it. I've capped a few toons and tbis toon is by far my favorite one to play. If/when I TR this guy, it'll be another clrc/ftr.

Things to consider: aura and burst do a huge amount of healing when players are near by. If your clrc is inn thee back of the group, and away from the playersn you end up spending sp on dots where your aura and bursts should be at.

By being in the mix helping heal with aura and burst, you can spend more time swinging the axe or dropping offensive spells. Swing the axe and helps the more powerful dps; helps enough to matter.

Being able to focus more sp into BB, divine and commet fall helps in huge ways as well.

Some stats to note on my clrc ftr at lvl 18:
AC about 64 with ship and self buffed spells - not pots.
Hp standing no buffs at all about 412
Sp standing no buffs is about 1800+

I will post a screen shot when I get home from work today with more specific specs and breakdown.

[Habreno]

Stuff.

Suggesting to us you took Spell Focus: Necromancy?

[Doutrinador]

Suggesting to us you took Spell Focus: Necromancy?

Its viable stay pure, take h elf fighter diletante, cleave, great cleave and IC, lvls in STR? The idéia is cast non DC SPELLS and get the capstone ( war priest )

[PurpleTimb]

Its viable stay pure, take h elf fighter diletante, cleave, great cleave and IC, lvls in STR? The idéia is cast non DC SPELLS and get the capstone ( war priest )

Clearly taking Spell Focus: Necromancy resulted in a no-fail DC on this thread, as it returned from the dead after two years.