Why?

[Claransa]

Can anyone explain to me why Monk's get proficiency with hand axes... when they're not Ki weapons?

What's the point?

[BitkaCK2]

Can anyone explain to me why Monk's get proficiency with hand axes... when they're not Ki weapons?

What's the point?

Ancient teachings tell us, "Before I became enlightened I chopped wood and carried water. After I became enlightened I chopped wood and carried water."

bitkaCK2

[Claransa]

Ancient teachings tell us, "Before I became enlightened I chopped wood and carried water. After I became enlightened I chopped wood and carried water."

bitkaCK2

I knew someone would bring up chopping wood.

[learst]

If I'm not mistaken, the idea or intent behind the implementation of the monk class was the monk as having roots among the common folk/peasants. And therefore they train with what are the common/farmer tools - unarmed, quarterstaff, sickle, handaxe, kama etc.

[sebastianosmith]

Allow me to refer you to this post.

[Claransa]

Allow me to refer you to this post.

Thank you for taking the time to post that information, I appreciate your effort. I can't say that I understand it any better than before though, other than the obviouis DDO isn't PnP.

[Claransa]

If I'm not mistaken, the idea or intent behind the implementation of the monk class was the monk as having roots among the common folk/peasants. And therefore they train with what are the common/farmer tools - unarmed, quarterstaff, sickle, handaxe, kama etc.

Makes sense to me but doesn't explain why hand axes aren't ki weapons really. I do appreciate you posting and sharing that though.

[SardaofChaos]

Flavor?

[FuzzyDuck81]

IMO it'd be great to be able to make any single weapon type (maybe racial limited) count as ki weapons.. but then maybe i'd like to make a dwarf monk version of the black whirlwind from jade empire dualwielding dwarven axes - earth stance & x4 multiplier ftw!

[Zachski]

From a flavor standpoint, it makes sense that handaxes aren't ki weapons.

Pretty much all of the other weapons can be used as an extension of the Monk's own body. For things that aren't (Shuriken, and Bows with Zen Archery), they can enter a calm trance which allows them to both focus and derive ki from their attacks.

For axes, though, the entire concept of using them is to just strike as hard and accurately as you can. You can't really use them as extensions of your body because of how they're used. They're too heavy to be used any other way - and if they were any lighter, they'd be virtually worthless.

That being said, I imagine there could definitely be a way to justify axes as ki weapons from a flavor standpoint as well. Rather than turning the weapon into an extension of the body, turning the body into an extension of the weapon. Really, each race should've been able to bring something to the table in terms of ki weapons.

Idea:

Do away with Whirling Steel Strike as a feat and replace it with "Whirling Steel Strike" enhancement, which any race can take.

(Zen Archery remains a feat)

Dwarven Monks would take an "Axe/Mace/Hammer Discipline" Enhancement to gain proficiency with those weapon types and use them as ki weapons.

Elven Monks could take Aelanar/Valenar (or whatever those two are called) Discipline and gain proficiency with those weapon types and use them as ki weapons.

Drow Monks could focus on rapiers and shortswords, I guess.

Halflings could take "Mischevious Discipline" and treat all throwing weapons as ki weapons and gain proficiency with all martial throwing weapons. (Which would technically give them every throwing weapon, won't it?)

Warforged and Half Orc could gain "Discipline of War" and treat greatswords, greataxes, mauls, and greatclubs as ki weapons. (Oh good heavens, what did I just do?)

And Human and Half Elf could pick from any of these (except Aelanar/Valenar) but at an increased AP cost.

[sebastianosmith]

IMO it'd be great to be able to make any single weapon type (maybe racial limited) count as ki weapons..

Rather than turning the weapon into an extension of the body, turning the body into an extension of the weapon.

Do away with WSS and ZA entirely. Add a Zen Weapon feat which allows any single weapon to be used as a ki weapon based on wisdom. History is replete with examples of every weapon ever devised being incorporated into a martial art discipline at some point. From there any existing racial enhancements could be applied to boost proficiency. In most circumstances wraps would still be a better choice, but at least pure monks or splashes could have a reasonable alternative.

[Blank_Zero]

IMO it'd be great to be able to make any single weapon type (maybe racial limited) count as ki weapons.. but then maybe i'd like to make a dwarf monk version of the black whirlwind from jade empire dualwielding dwarven axes - earth stance & x4 multiplier ftw!

I want my Dwarven Defender Monk that used a pair of Tower Shields as ki weapons.

Rounded Tower Shields with razored edges that were enchanted to absorb harmful spells to be unleashed at a later time