Started as a Wizard, and find thoughts of a splash to be possible.

[Turbeleg]

Well, I started as a Drow Wiz, and have made it to lvl 4. However, I find the possibility of splashing a class into my mix creeping into my head. I tend to solo, and as of this post, have yet to die.
What would be a good splash for two lvls, and why?
And I find the thought, at this time, of rerolling, and taking a lvl of rogue at first lvl out of the question, at least with out a +1 heart of the wood.
Thank you in advance.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My Drow Wiz20 is my most powerful Character.... just saying.

[morticianjohn]

You could still splash rogue and do fine. You lose out on skill points by taking the rogue levels later however, that isn't really a big concern for a max int build IMO. With that said as talon moonshadow has pointed out there is very little reason to splash if you didn't plan for it to begin with. The wizard capstone is really good.

I wouldn't consider a splash other than rogue to be worth the investment at this point.

[Ilindith]

If you want to splash something you should really just reroll and take rogue at first level, then take a second along the way for evasion. (I know you said you don't want to reroll...but seriously...getting back to level 4 isn't a big deal)

You'll have the skills to take care of pretty much any trap in the game (you have more than enough to max out all of them with the skills points you get from your int on a wizard), pick up insightful reflexes and you'll also have a very good reflex save to go with your evasion.

Most common splash for a wizard. You could also just take one level of rogue instead of two, you could still get traps just as good, but I personally always thought evasion was well worth it as you get such a good synergy with insightful reflexes.

[unbongwah]

I like rogue / wizs myself, but if you're not going to reroll, you should probably just stay pure.

[morticianjohn]

If you want to splash something you should really just reroll and take rogue at first level, then take a second along the way for evasion. (I know you said you don't want to reroll...but seriously...getting back to level 4 isn't a big deal)

You'll have the skills to take care of pretty much any trap in the game (you have more than enough to max out all of them with the skills points you get from your int on a wizard), pick up insightful reflexes and you'll also have a very good reflex save to go with your evasion.

Most common splash for a wizard. You could also just take one level of rogue instead of two, you could still get traps just as good, but I personally always thought evasion was well worth it as you get such a good synergy with insightful reflexes.

There is not much to gain from a reroll that he couldn't already get just by taking his next 2 levels as a rogue.

Skill points.... for what? Diplomacy, bluff, intim, haggle, jump, tumble and others are all nice to have if you can fit them in but all that is mandatory for trapping skills is search and disable. With 2 levels of rogue he would get 24 + 8 int mod (assuming 18 starting int). He could max search and disable (9 each) and still have enough points to max spot (or umd if preferred although spot may be considered a necessity for a first timer rogue in quests) even if he didn't put any points there to begin with. If he already has 4 points in spot and UMD he could max both skills and then have a couple extra points to put somewhere else.

granted getting to level 4 won't be difficult but IMO it's not that important to start out with the rogue levels either.

With all that said staying pure wizzie is probably the best advice either rerolling or multiclassing your current build are the 2nd best option based on personal preference.

[JOTMON]

There is not much to gain from a reroll that he couldn't already get just by taking his next 2 levels as a rogue.

Skill points.... for what? Diplomacy, bluff, intim, haggle, jump, tumble and others are all nice to have if you can fit them in but all that is mandatory for trapping skills is search and disable. With 2 levels of rogue he would get 24 + 8 int mod (assuming 18 starting int). He could max search and disable (9 each) and still have enough points to max spot (or umd if preferred although spot may be considered a necessity for a first timer rogue in quests) even if he didn't put any points there to begin with. If he already has 4 points in spot and UMD he could max both skills and then have a couple extra points to put somewhere else.

granted getting to level 4 won't be difficult but IMO it's not that important to start out with the rogue levels either.

With all that said staying pure wizzie is probably the best advice either rerolling or multiclassing your current build are the 2nd best option based on personal preference.

I got confused reading your reply here.... 2 rogue levels after the fact wont get 24+8..

Max ranks is not 9, it is 23 (4 at level 1 +1 per level to 20). Cross class max is 11.5 which is really 11 since half ranks dont calculate (2 at first level +1/2 per level to 20).
Pure Wizard Max UMD is 11.5, Wizard with a splash of Rogue can invest into UMD to 23 skill points. Wizard cant invest into disable without taking rogue level first.

A Rogue level will get 8+Intbonus of 4 ((18INT-10Base)/2)) for 12 skill points per rogue level(before tomes/Level Ups), which is only 6 more than the Wizard per level, the only difference is class vs crossclass investment. 5 of the 6 wizard skill points (assume 1 into class skill Concentration until Quicken Feat taken) would end up crossclassed into 2.5 ranks vs the 12 rogue skill points would be class invested equating to 12 ranks.
The real impact is Rogue at level 1 will unlock Rogue class skills, by not taking Rogue at level 1 you effectively lose 34 skill points.



Clarification below...

At Level 1 (assuming 18 Int - Int bonus =(18-10)/2 = 4 ) max investment into a skill is 4 points.
Wizard gets (2+int bonus)x4= 24 only usefull class skill is Concentration everything else is cross class and likely wasted.
Rogue gets (8+int bonus)x4 = 48 More than you will ever need will be filled to 4 points
*Thats 24 points lost at level 1 and the impact is more since 20 of the Wizard points will be crossclass invested so you effectively lose 34 points.

Also, Taking Wiz at level 1 and taking Rogue as an afterthought later will mean you are playing catchup on all the key skills and will likely have wasted starter points crossclassed into things you have no real use for.



Best bet would be to restart and take Rogue at level 1, Rogue has almost all the relevent class skills except for concentration


After level 1 a 18 Int Wiz would get (2+int Bonus of 4) = 6/level until tomes(level 3,7,11) and Level Stat increases in INT for Wizard(level 4,8,12,16,20) for an additional 1 skill point per 2 INT increases assuming you eat tomes and take Int at Level ups).

Cross classing Wiz skill points to cover rogue levels is a non-issue since you will have more skill points than you will need to keep up the core skills. (UMD,Search,Disable,Concentration,Open Locks, Max 10 Jump,balance, then after that.. whatever else catches your attention.)

Top up any slacking skills with 2nd Rogue level around level 11-14 around the time you start feeling the need for evasion (just make sure you get firewall first..) Rogue will get 6more skill points over the Wiz level but it works out to more as they are class skills and as a result can use the 12+ points as full point investments into the rogue class skills.



Pure Wizard vs Splash 2 Rogue is a viable trade off

Pure Wiz (effectively lose 2 DC's)
-Capstone +2 Int
-1 DC (level 18 vs level 20)
-1 Bonus Feat (wizard metamagic feat)
-1 Level 8 Spell and -1 Level 9 Spell


2 Rogue Splash
+Evasion (coupled with Insightful reflexes Feat = Happy Caster)
+Nofail Trap Skills

[Ancient]

There is not much to gain from a reroll that he couldn't already get just by taking his next 2 levels as a rogue.

Skill points.... for what? Diplomacy, bluff, intim, haggle, jump, tumble and others are all nice to have if you can fit them in but all that is mandatory for trapping skills is search and disable. With 2 levels of rogue he would get 24 + 8 int mod (assuming 18 starting int). He could max search and disable (9 each) and still have enough points to max spot (or umd if preferred although spot may be considered a necessity for a first timer rogue in quests) even if he didn't put any points there to begin with. If he already has 4 points in spot and UMD he could max both skills and then have a couple extra points to put somewhere else.

If you are going to give up the sizeable benefits of pure wizard, then you need to maximize ALL the benefits of the rogue splash... evasion, traps, spot, UMD, stealth. Even with a wizard's intelligence, there are still more beneficial rogue skills than you have skill points

I'm a huge fan of the flexibility offered by a wiz/rog... but the case for pure is hard to beat... and that is if you do it 100% right. Starting half way on something that was already at a slight disadvantage seems like a recipe for frustration.

[morticianjohn]

Ty for correcting me on the skill points a rogue gets per level. I was thinking rogues got 12 skill points per level + the INT mod rather than the 8 as you pointed out. That is why I thought 2 rogue levels would give 32 skill points rather than the 24 as you point out.

I personally don't mind playing catch up on skills and find that reacquiring XP I've already gotten is more annoying. I have taken trapping skills as an afterthought. I have never deleted a character. If he goes with search, disable and concentration he could do traps as well as any equally geared player without losing any of the super important skills even if he didn't plan ahead for making a trap capable toon.

[JOTMON]

Ty for correcting me on the skill points a rogue gets per level. I was thinking rogues got 12 skill points per level + the INT mod rather than the 8 as you pointed out. That is why I thought 2 rogue levels would give 32 skill points rather than the 24 as you point out.

I personally don't mind playing catch up on skills and find that reacquiring XP I've already gotten is more annoying. I have taken trapping skills as an afterthought. I have never deleted a character. If he goes with search, disable and concentration he could do traps as well as any equally geared player without losing any of the super important skills even if he didn't plan ahead for making a trap capable toon.

The Forums are a great place to get insight, after sifting through all the posts, ultimately it comes down to what you want to do.

I would recommend you take 1 Rogue level as soon as possible.. like now... and the 2nd as late as possible to maximize your point investment.

Continuing forward with rogue splash is viable, I would suggest ensuring you invest more into search than disable if it ever comes down to the I dont have enough points for both dilema... Since you cant attempt to disable a trap box if you cant find it and stock up on +5 thieves tools as they give a +7 stacking bonus to disabling traps, keep up to date on the best +gear and remember buffs like GH,Luck etc...

Remember 39 UMD is the magic number for nofail Heal scrolls(rolls are UMD+1d20) after all your buffs, gear and skills.
and really.. other than Heal and Raise Dead the rest of the scrolls are just gravy spells.

[Postumus]

Well, I started as a Drow Wiz, and have made it to lvl 4. However, I find the possibility of splashing a class into my mix creeping into my head. I tend to solo, and as of this post, have yet to die.
What would be a good splash for two lvls, and why?
And I find the thought, at this time, of rerolling, and taking a lvl of rogue at first lvl out of the question, at least with out a +1 heart of the wood.
Thank you in advance.

You said you haven't died yet, so what is prompting you to multi-class? Just because you can?

The question you need to answer is this: why do you want to splash any other classes? What do you expect to gain from multi-classing? What skill/feat/ability do you not have that you need to splash another class for?

If the answers to these questions are: idk, then stay pure. In two levels you can become a PM (or AM) and you'll be even more powerful. If you just want to try out the abilities of another class, you'd be better off creating an alternate character in that other class.

[count_spicoli]

as someone who has played a wizzy rogue i can tell you that you will regret multiclassing. First off the loss of sp on a class that imo is already sp defecient is going to hurt you especially on first life with no tr gear like ioun stone and shroud stuff. second while trapping sounds like a good idea any trap box that is in the trap will be a 50/50 shot that you dont get whacked. wizzy rogues dont get the extra saves to traps that rogues do. same with arti's. imo traps are best left to rogues. i had a nightmare of a time on my wargforge wizzy rogue with insightful reflexes and evasion in von trying to do traps without dying. my brother joined group with his rogue and came in and was just standing in them making save i was blowing. the evasion is cool against caster dmg(never get hit) and ellies(never get hit but traps are tough. As far as the skills if you decide you just have to do it def invest in spot and move silently. I usually cast owl wisdom (so i didnt have to wear wis item), spot item, ship buff and +2 tome i could spot most traps even with wis being dump stat. move silently is great for invis'ing yourself and cruising thru quest untouched.

[Ancient]

One clarification that I want to add, is that if this is your first toon then the splash can be a good idea because it doubles your chances to get into a group (arcane slot or trap slot). Most people rebuild their first toon to 20 anyways, so getting there opens up worlds of opportunity for resources and knowledge. Just make sure you have good gear so you can hit the traps if you are joining a group for that purpose.