Failed Normal Shroud...

[Impaqt]

I had no idea......



3 Wizards.....

My FvS had 30 Kills in part 1....

Center got pulled early in part 2.....

Solved North 5x5 and ran BOTH waters back to it....
3x3 across for the 5x5 couldnt get done... Asked for a Open lock/knock several times.. WHen one finally got there (Seriously thought the wall was about to come up) someone immediatly ran in and put the water in.. Before the Puzzle was done..

Part 4.... sigh... not enough dots.... not enough dps..... Me and Delta were the only ones left standing after 6 or 7 rounds.....

2 people left while Delta and I whittled him down.

Part 5 I was not excited to go into But we gave it a shot....

I drank more pots than I care to admit.... Used more scrolls..... got him down to about 15-20% but in the end, could not sustain healing Delta, Keeping DP up and keeping myself healed.

it was mostly fun....

More Dots Folks.. More Dots.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04

[Ivan_Milic]

6-7 rounds,that is just wow.

[WruntJunior]

Sounds like fun...you wouldn't believe how many normal shrouds I've seen go into 2-3 rounds with 3-4 arcanes in the group simply due to no DoTs...but 6-7 rounds is "awesome." :P Sounds like you just managed to get the one out of a thousand group.

[akash]

From my experience, 99% of the arcanes in the PUG either don't know the definition of DOTs or they don't know that those spells stack to 3 times.

[cwfergtx]

From my experience, 99% of the arcanes in the PUG either don't know the definition of DOTs or they don't know that those spells stack to 3 times.

Very true, I will admit that when I first heard the command to dot harry I did not know what spell they were talking about. So I had to ask the fellow mage. By the next Shroud I had it ready. Please do not assume that the mage or cleric in your party knowl what dot means if you have not ran with them before.

Last night the shroud I was in had a new cleric in it so I though I would help them out sent them a tell that I would be helping them get shards and ingredients since it was their 1st time. Part 1 left shard and 2 small ingredients in party chat was told 2 times to get them out of the chest and once on voice chat and he still left them there. Part two left more ingredients and again sent tells and chats about ingredients and again he left them there. After that I did not give him anything.

[Ministry]

Very true, I will admit that when I first heard the command to dot harry I did not know what spell they were talking about. So I had to ask the fellow mage. By the next Shroud I had it ready. Please do not assume that the mage or cleric in your party knowl what dot means if you have not ran with them before.

THIS.

Most of the shrouds I've been on since getting back have started with the leader asking if anyone hasn't done a shroud before and / or has any questions. I'm guessing people are afraid to admit they don't know.

GJ asking.

Back when I was playing regularly and leading raids, I would always tell the team the basic 4 or 5 critical components before we started and ALWAYS ask people to pvt me if they have any questions and that the only stupid question is the one not asked.

The easiest way to fail is to assume everyone knows everything they should and / or has all the requisite gear, spells, etc... and knows how and when to use them.

[gamblorjb]

I think we've all had runs like that before. I had one last week playing as my Barb and during part 2 while I was prepping the troll, my HPs were starting to drop. Had a cleric standing right next to me (we were the only 2 there) so didnt bother to drink pots figuring he would heal me but he just stood there is block mode while I died. Starting using pots too late but figured he would heal me. Then we got to part 4 and we were in the middle fighting, not 1 mass heal came our way with the 2 healers we had. Needless to say we wiped pretty quick. Worst one I've ever run. But, hey it happens.

[Crann]

So it's not just Orien then

On a positive note...we're doing alot better on our Hard runs now, even the occasional victorious elite pug.

You mentioned your kill count in Part one, were the wiz's running with the melees?

I have noticed an increasing trend of the arcanes clearing one portal ahead of the melees, if at all. Is this prevalent on Thelanis as well?

I almost always break ranks on my melee toons now and head to 13/14 because no one seems to go over there anymore and keepers spawn. This is in random pugs, BTW.

[Impaqt]

So it's not just Orien then

On a positive note...we're doing alot better on our Hard runs now, even the occasional victorious elite pug.

You mentioned your kill count in Part one, were the wiz's running with the melees?

I have noticed an increasing trend of the arcanes clearing one portal ahead of the melees, if at all. Is this prevalent on Thelanis as well?

I almost always break ranks on my melee toons now and head to 13/14 because no one seems to go over there anymore and keepers spawn. This is in random pugs, BTW.

I have absolutely no idea what the arcanes were doing in part one. One of them ended up with a similar kill count to me. the other 2 were pointless.

I figured they were DPS builds rather than Instakill... That assumption changes when we had no arcane dps at all in part 4.

I pretty much started heading to the next portal when the current portal was about 75% down. and just cleared.

the leader actually do any leading... A pet peeve of mine..... but its a normal shroud right? no sweat....

Luckily, this is far from a normal occurrence on Thelanis. I literally dont remember the last time I was part of a normal shroud failure. Generally, as long as we have a handful of people that know what they are doing, we can get through it. this one seemed to only have 2.

[Saravis]

I figured they were DPS builds rather than Instakill...

Just want to say that that shouldn't matter at all, DPS works just as well as Instakilling for clearing trash in p1 of Shroud.

In regards to arcanes not understanding DoTs, I find it quite the opposite, its melees who tend not to understand DoTs. I'm amused at how often melees in group will complain that we have too many Divines or too many arcanes and that we need more melee DPS; at which point I remind them: Moar DoTs! Then I've been in cases in p4, where Harry would be nearly dead, but the blades were nearly in. The melee thinking lets just get the job done would continue to beat on him. They would finish the job, but a few of them would die in the process. Its not a big deal, but I would inform them that they should have backed out, the DoTs would have finished him.

[Impaqt]

Just want to say that that shouldn't matter at all, DPS works just as well as Instakilling for clearing trash in p1 of Shroud.

I know that... And you know that.... Unfortunately, at least 2 of the three wizards did not.


Anyway, Just did my own Hard Pug Shroud.... 1 Round Part 4.

Faith Restored....

[grgurius]

Faith Restored....

Trust in shroud.

[yawumpus]

I've pugged way too many Orien shrouds and most of the failures were at part 2. If your players don't understand that the mobs have to be killed roughly simultaneously (or better yet, slowest to fastest), you can expect a fail. I've heard that it gets easier after you kill them, so if you don't call a wipe after a multi-part 2 you can see what a wipe looks like.

Can't say I've seen a wipe on part 3. Of course, once the second rainbow appears, you have to finish it now (oddly enough, I don't think the crystals were attacked to finish it).

[Impaqt]

I've pugged way too many Orien shrouds and most of the failures were at part 2. If your players don't understand that the mobs have to be killed roughly simultaneously (or better yet, slowest to fastest), you can expect a fail. I've heard that it gets easier after you kill them, so if you don't call a wipe after a multi-part 2 you can see what a wipe looks like.

Can't say I've seen a wipe on part 3. Of course, once the second rainbow appears, you have to finish it now (oddly enough, I don't think the crystals were attacked to finish it).

got lucky in part 2... 3 of the slowest + Fire. had plenty of time to get em dotted up and plenty of time to kill the fire once the first three went down.

[MartinusWyllt]

Can't say I've seen a wipe on part 3. Of course, once the second rainbow appears, you have to finish it now (oddly enough, I don't think the crystals were attacked to finish it).

Had effectively a part 3 normal wipe on Thelanis a few weeks ago. My lesson learned was to stop being polite when people say they have the puzzle because the "put it in the solver". When the wall came through a 2nd time a wizard panicked, cast DDoor and 2 others followed them.

[Cyndrome]

Had effectively a part 3 normal wipe on Thelanis a few weeks ago. My lesson learned was to stop being polite when people say they have the puzzle because the "put it in the solver". When the wall came through a 2nd time a wizard panicked, cast DDoor and 2 others followed them.

I am not sure what is going on. A few days ago I had to do both 5X5s the circle and a 3X3. When I finished the last 5X5 I had to run water to it myself.

[Phidius]

I don't know about you guys, but I think it's fun when the wall comes up in part 2.

Especially when there's a bunch of folks standing around in the center.

[Gawna]

LOL @ "I don't have DR breakers, but the casters and healers should have been prepared to drink stacks of pots to make up for me!" Double LOL @ "I pulled the center early even though I didn't communicate to anyone that I was doing it and was not directed by the party leader to pull." Triple LOL @ "Someone solved my puzzle while I was bringing up the solver in a 4x4!"

Oh, axel, you are a keeper.

[Ministry]

I only started to run the Shroud again after being AFK for all but a few weeks over the last year, but it has become an anomaly.

We use to solo heal normal shrouds and 2 healers for Hard and Elite. I think I remember 3 fails in total out of hundreds of raids... not including the first one that I went into on day 1 with only 3 people, none of us having any idea what it was about.

I'm reading this is why more people are asking for DR breakers, etc. I guess they made the raid that much tougher while I was gone.

My Cleric and Healing skills are SO far inferior to Impaqts and I use to heal all kinds of groups on that raid with no difficulty.

Now I'm seeing 2 healers going in on Normal and fail... seeing 3 go in on Hard and failing. 3 shrouds yesterday with the same toon, on 3 different groups. The first 2 were horrible. 2 healers on normal and horrible failure, 3 healers on hard and another brutal failure. The 3rd and last attempt of the day was fortunately led by Pink from Bane. 2 VERY solid healers and overall, a well run and solid team... subsequently, a very Easy completion.

Did they change some algorithms?
Did Harry's HPS get increased?
Are the players skills and gear so variable with a range from WOW Horrible to WOW Great? (Once again leading to people asking for "strongs" - that one makes me laugh... or DR breakers, etc..._
Is it the luck of the instance?

All I know is we use to run the shroud on hard and elite all the time. Normal was for very short manned teams or speed runs. Now it's a freakin crapshoot to see if you are going to complete at all.

The only positive correlation I did notice out of all the groups was familiarity. Pink seemed to know a fair amount of the players and a few were from Bane. That group did very well. The first 2 shrouds I was on were led by 1 - Quiet leader and 2 - Antagonistic leader. Neither one of the first 2 runs were led well.

Knowing Impaqt, I know he can lead any raid to completion with even the barest of a compliment of people around him, so for that raid to fail... wow... just wow.... that was one very bad instance / group / variable / algorithm / etc... etc...

I'm still amazed people will pug their healers with the way that raid is going lately... it's like a box of chocolates... some just shouldn't have made it in the box.

[Chai]

Wrong forum. Failing a normal shroud should be in accomplishments, because you actually have to try to fail this raid - especially veteran players who have racked up high completion numbers over the years.