Failed Normal Shroud...

[Impaqt]

Wrong forum. Failing a normal shroud should be in accomplishments, because you actually have to try to fail this raid - especially veteran players who have racked up high completion numbers over the years.

fairly certain I had more completions than everyone else in the raid combined(Sans Delta.. who I'm sure can say the same thing)

[axel15810]

Theres no good reason not to have a DR breaker for harry at this point in the game. good and Silver is what you need. there are always some on the AH. its pretty easy to make in Cannith crafting as well. if you dont have a crafter, I'm sure you can find someone that can make the shards for you.

I've solo healed dozens of normal shrouds. a competent second healer would not of fixed that one.

If I had to solve a 4x4, I would of mentioned that in the op. as mentioned already, they are the easiest to solve because they literally solve themselves.
reaker. I have a +5 shocking burst falchion of pure good but there was no arti for silver weapons so I could break the DR. Maybe I s
after that slow part 1, no one had any business "Pulling the center early to save time". Thats generally a decision that is to be made by the party leader... He didnt make ANY decisions at all...

the only reason part 2 went fine is because we pulled the easiest and slowest combination of mobs we possibly could.



...

A lot of elitism going on in this thread. Too many expectations. This is a normal shroud, I would never run this toon on hard or elite. I just got him to cap and have not yet crafted a DR breaker. Maybe I should have a breaker crafted by someone else for me but on a normal shroud it isn't absolutely essential. I can't afford to buy a good DR breaker at the moment and even if I could the crappy DR breakers on the auction house probably wouldn't do much more damage than the weapon I have less harry's DR. But I don't have a good DR breaker and again this is why I was running normal on this toon and not hard or elite.

I'm not that good at the puzzles and I see no reason to be. I use the solver. It's no big deal. Takes me 30 seconds most of the time. Expecting people to be super puzzles solvers is ridiculous. You can wait 30-50 seconds for me to solve my puzzle. The wall isn't going to come up, chill.

I was not expecting healers to ever use SP pots in shroud, only excepting the healer to have some kind of backup as I always do when I heal shroud. Healers should always be prepared with atleast a stack of heal scrolls, this guy had none.

You people have way too many expections for a normal...let me reiterate...NORMAL shroud run.

All that is needed to not fail is healers healing, melees swinging and arcanes dotting. And in this case we failed because arcanes weren't dotting. Way too many expectations here.

[Impaqt]

A lot of elitism going on in this thread. Too many expectations. This is a normal shroud, I would never run this toon on hard or elite. I just got him to cap and have not yet crafted a DR breaker. I have a +5 shocking burst falchion of pure good but there was no arti for silver weapons so I could break the DR. Maybe I should have a breaker but on a normal shroud it isn't absolutely essential. The crappy DR breakers on the auction house probably would do less damage than the weapon I have less harry's DR. But I don't have a good DR breaker and again this is why I was running normal on this toon and not hard or elite.

I'm not that good at the puzzles and I see no reason to be. I use the solver. It's no big deal. Takes me 30 seconds most of the time. Expecting people to be super puzzles solvers is ridiculous. You can wait 30-50 seconds for me to solve my puzzle. The wall isn't going to come up, chill.

I was not expecting healers to ever use SP pots in shroud, only excepting the healer to have some kind of backup as I always do when I heal shroud. Healers should always be prepared with atleast a stack of heal scrolls, this guy had none.

You people have way too many expections for a normal...let me reiterate...NORMAL shroud run.

All that is needed to not fail is healers healing, melees swinging and arcanes dotting. And in this case we failed because arcanes weren't dotting. Way too many expectations here.

ok.

[Postumus]

I remember that, I was in there and just couldnt believe the stupidity, The leader is the one cast DD if not mistaken.

I guess it could have been worse, he could have /deathed out and come back in.

[DeltaBravo]

A lot of elitism going on in this thread. Too many expectations. This is a normal shroud, I would never run this toon on hard or elite. I just got him to cap and have not yet crafted a DR breaker. Maybe I should have a breaker crafted by someone else for me but on a normal shroud it isn't absolutely essential. I can't afford to buy a good DR breaker at the moment and even if I could the crappy DR breakers on the auction house probably wouldn't do much more damage than the weapon I have less harry's DR. But I don't have a good DR breaker and again this is why I was running normal on this toon and not hard or elite.

I'm not that good at the puzzles and I see no reason to be. I use the solver. It's no big deal. Takes me 30 seconds most of the time. Expecting people to be super puzzles solvers is ridiculous. You can wait 30-50 seconds for me to solve my puzzle. The wall isn't going to come up, chill.

I was not expecting healers to ever use SP pots in shroud, only excepting the healer to have some kind of backup as I always do when I heal shroud. Healers should always be prepared with atleast a stack of heal scrolls, this guy had none.



You people have way too many expections for a normal...let me reiterate...NORMAL shroud run.

All that is needed to not fail is healers healing, melees swinging and arcanes dotting. And in this case we failed because arcanes weren't dotting. Way too many expectations here.

You make it sound like when people are running a normal quest that normally goes okey, people sould not do thier best to make the quest even faster and better. I guess thats just my Expectations here saying that, that is very wrong. I allways try and do my best no matter what quest i run, for me not to have heal scroll or DR breakers in a normal shourd is just as silly as not have it in a EPIC LOB. In the end both raids will fail and both will give the same output I wasted other peoples time becourse i did not take the time to ready my slf for the quest, wich could be a part of why we failed.

[DeltaBravo]

fairly certain I had more completions than everyone else in the raid combined(Sans Delta.. who I'm sure can say the same thing)

Just thinking on how many hours i been in the shroud, makes me think what RL stuff i could have done.. 14 days in spain sunny beach maybe ?

[DeltaBravo]

Wrong forum. Failing a normal shroud should be in accomplishments, because you actually have to try to fail this raid - especially veteran players who have racked up high completion numbers over the years.

I had to ruen power attack off. else it might have been a 6 rounder :P

[Crann]

A lot of elitism going on in this thread.

It is not elitism when people expect at least the bare minimum of effort.

[Blackbird]

A lot of elitism going on in this thread. Too many expectations. This is a normal shroud, I would never run this toon on hard or elite. I just got him to cap and have not yet crafted a DR breaker. Maybe I should have a breaker crafted by someone else for me but on a normal shroud it isn't absolutely essential. I can't afford to buy a good DR breaker at the moment and even if I could the crappy DR breakers on the auction house probably wouldn't do much more damage than the weapon I have less harry's DR. But I don't have a good DR breaker and again this is why I was running normal on this toon and not hard or elite.

I'm not that good at the puzzles and I see no reason to be. I use the solver. It's no big deal. Takes me 30 seconds most of the time. Expecting people to be super puzzles solvers is ridiculous. You can wait 30-50 seconds for me to solve my puzzle. The wall isn't going to come up, chill.

I was not expecting healers to ever use SP pots in shroud, only excepting the healer to have some kind of backup as I always do when I heal shroud. Healers should always be prepared with atleast a stack of heal scrolls, this guy had none.

You people have way too many expections for a normal...let me reiterate...NORMAL shroud run.

All that is needed to not fail is healers healing, melees swinging and arcanes dotting. And in this case we failed because arcanes weren't dotting. Way too many expectations here.

I believe the stated expectations were:
1. Have a DR breaker.
2. Know how to do your puzzle.

Wow...now that you mention it, that is SO INCREDIBLY unreasonable. Shame on you, Impact! /sarcasm off. Seriously, please explain how this is "elitism". As for the DR breaker, the longer the fight draws on, the more resources have to be consumed and the lower the chance of success (as evidenced by the raid at issue here). As Impact stated, it is very easy to get (or craft) a decent DR breaker prior to running the Shroud. Crafting a Min II is not the only DR breaker in the game. He has DR 15 on normal. What makes you so sure that the weapon you were using is so superior as to overcome 15 DR?

Who cares that it is a normal Shroud? What does that matter? If it's normal does that mean it's fail-proof? Obviously not.

As for the heal scrolls, as someone who plays a healer very often, while it is important to have heal scrolls, it doesn't sound like that would have saved the group. Heal scrolls are great for slow healing a single target. They are significantly less useful trying to heal a large number of people who are taking lots of damage.

What is sounds like is you had a couple of prepared people and the rest were not prepared for this raid. Maybe, like you, they thought "this is normal, I don't need to have the tools for this quest". In a regular run, one of two unprepared people probably won't make a difference. But, have enough of them and it can cause a fail, as happened here.

Maybe the casters should have been dotting more (just as you should have a decent DR breaker) but we ran Shroud for years before DOTs and did just fine (although we had DR breakers).

As for the "elitest" comments on the puzzle. They were trying to help you learn how to do a 4x4 without a solver. I guess knowledge and learning is "elitest" and only ignorance is acceptable.

Bottom line - stop pointing the finger at everyone else. You sound like you are equally to blame. All the finger pointing says is "they should have covered my slack".

[Infant]

A lot of elitism going on in this thread. Too many expectations. This is a normal shroud, I would never run this toon on hard or elite. I just got him to cap and have not yet crafted a DR breaker. Maybe I should have a breaker crafted by someone else for me but on a normal shroud it isn't absolutely essential. I can't afford to buy a good DR breaker at the moment and even if I could the crappy DR breakers on the auction house probably wouldn't do much more damage than the weapon I have less harry's DR. But I don't have a good DR breaker and again this is why I was running normal on this toon and not hard or elite.

I'm not that good at the puzzles and I see no reason to be. I use the solver. It's no big deal. Takes me 30 seconds most of the time. Expecting people to be super puzzles solvers is ridiculous. You can wait 30-50 seconds for me to solve my puzzle. The wall isn't going to come up, chill.

I was not expecting healers to ever use SP pots in shroud, only excepting the healer to have some kind of backup as I always do when I heal shroud. Healers should always be prepared with atleast a stack of heal scrolls, this guy had none.

You people have way too many expections for a normal...let me reiterate...NORMAL shroud run.

All that is needed to not fail is healers healing, melees swinging and arcanes dotting. And in this case we failed because arcanes weren't dotting. Way too many expectations here.

You are not making your case better. Blaming this on others (who maybe didn't do their job), while you didn't meet the bare minimum preparations isn't going to help you.

Infant

[Chai]

A lot of elitism going on in this thread. Too many expectations. This is a normal shroud, I would never run this toon on hard or elite.

Actually its just the opposite. There are hardly any expectations for running normal. The bar is set pretty low, and you never need to run hard or elite - only normal - to craft tier 3 weapons that are still useful in all other endgame content. The expectation nowdays is to show up every 3 days with 11 friends. He pretty much stated you need a boss beater (which can be had with cannith crafting) and there are multiple puzzle solvers online.

[cwfergtx]

From my experience, 99% of the arcanes in the PUG either don't know the definition of DOTs or they don't know that those spells stack to 3 times.

Very true, I will admit that when I first heard the command to dot harry I did not know what spell they were talking about. So I had to ask the fellow mage. By the next Shroud I had it ready. Please do not assume that the mage or cleric in your party knowl what dot means if you have not ran with them before.

Last night the shroud I was in had a new cleric in it so I though I would help them out sent them a tell that I would be helping them get shards and ingredients since it was their 1st time. Part 1 left shard and 2 small ingredients in party chat was told 2 times to get them out of the chest and once on voice chat and he still left them there. Part two left more ingredients and again sent tells and chats about ingredients and again he left them there. After that I did not give him anything.

[maha0201]

Today shroud joined for completion ftw, we got ubbber support CLRC and party leader asked if hard ok .... 4 pulls on pt 2 .... 6 rounds in pt 4 ( yes i was only ranged/melee dps standing at end of pt 4 [ thanks to support CLRC :* ] ). Pt 5 was... was... was... end sum all mine gear at 50% few pots used etc...

[Ministry]

Very true, I will admit that when I first heard the command to dot harry I did not know what spell they were talking about. So I had to ask the fellow mage. By the next Shroud I had it ready. Please do not assume that the mage or cleric in your party knowl what dot means if you have not ran with them before.

THIS.

Most of the shrouds I've been on since getting back have started with the leader asking if anyone hasn't done a shroud before and / or has any questions. I'm guessing people are afraid to admit they don't know.

GJ asking.

Back when I was playing regularly and leading raids, I would always tell the team the basic 4 or 5 critical components before we started and ALWAYS ask people to pvt me if they have any questions and that the only stupid question is the one not asked.

The easiest way to fail is to assume everyone knows everything they should and / or has all the requisite gear, spells, etc... and knows how and when to use them.

[Thalone]

It's pretty easy to be clueless on a melee and not be called out for it; so long as you're swinging a weapon you can fool people into thinking you're contributing. But disaster casters are easy to spot. In terms of grouping, I PuG almost exclusively, so I've seen more than my fair share...

Someone on a melee (who I know has a sorc alt) complaining that a Shroud with five arcanes already has "a lot."

A wizard with 132 HPs saying he's probably a little delicate to get the elemental. Yes, he died.

A PM forgetting to turn his aura on and dying due to SLA use.

A wizard who literally spends half his SP passing out GH and blur/displacement to beat on portals in part 1. Doesn't volunteer to do crystal in part 2. Ends up being outkilled by melees. And a TR, no less.

I notice a sorc putting five or six ice storms on the same portal in part 1 and politely inform him that ice storm doesn't stack damage, and casting multiples only causes lag. I am less polite when he continues doing so, almost wiping the party in part 4. He dies in part 4, and apparently not knowing he could be raised, recalls and comes back in, sees the entry portal is gone, then drops group.

In part 4 of an arcane-heavy Shroud, I see two of seven dot classes are actually dotting. I ask in party chat for people to start dotting, because what are you going to do when mass heal/polar ray/etc is on timer. Utter silence. Part 5 is the same.

In another Shroud I see a pitiful fraction of people dotting. I offer to send DoT scrolls on request to the wizards so they can inscribe into their spellbook. There is utter silence and the next time I see them in Shroud again, they still are not dotting.

Wizards with over half their SP left over after round 1 in part 4 of normal.

"I don't use DoTs." You know what they are, you know they're good, you just choose not to use them?

"Well there are lots of kinds of wizards." CC, instakill, DPS, waste of party slot?

Arcanes passing blur or displace before part 4, after I patiently explain for the millionth time that Harry has TS. "It helps for the trash fight." You're admitting your own arcane skills are so pathetic you cannot CC/instakill/DPS normal trash mobs in Shroud?

Firewall in Shroud. Sleet storm. Stinking cloud (which one sorc apparently also thought is good CC in VoD?). Discoball on rednames. Discoball on Arraetrikos.

"TWF" wizards (yes, wizards, plural) meleeing Harry and dying after I've specifically told them they don't have enough HPs/should be using spells anyway. "But I have a destruction weapon to lower his AC." Well now I know why some wizards insist on asking for poison neutralisation before Harry fights.

One wizard in particular used to keep hitting my LFMs. He could not resist casting mass invisibility before portal transitions (gets removed on transition anyway). Insisted on displacing/stoneskinning/invising my arcane (like I can't do this for myself?) when I am tasked to get the crystal in part 2. Then promptly died to a single trash mob that wasn't dragged back. Also cast discoball on portals in part 1 and TWFed dancing mobs instead of instakilling. Needless to say, no DoTs either.

[WTFFowler]

Firewall in Shroud. Sleet storm. Stinking cloud (which one sorc apparently also thought is good CC in VoD?)

Sorry to derail a bit, but I overheard that the bats in VoD can't explode when nauseated. I can't confrim nor deny this as I don't have and arcane that isnt a bank toon.

Back on track:
Before I TR'd my sorc, it was my 1st shroud on an arcane(back before u9) and I never knew about the crystal or where it was. I joined with 5 spots left to fill and no other arcane joined. I figured I was familiar with the quest having run on it melees and party leader never asked if anyone is new/unfamiliar.

On and on to part 2 leader says I'm on crystal. Me being unaware of what that meant ask in party chat what that means. Afterwards much lol'ing and crys of "n00b" began. No explanation, and someone else got it. It wasn't until a guildie showed me next run where the crystal was. So it is just possible people don't speak up because of the shame people will put on them for not knowing.

[MRH]

We really need to get back to doing part 2 the old way in 4 diff corners of the map.......

really show how teamwork and coordination works.....

the SW method is way too easy


but on topic.... man that sucks to hear your normal shroud went down the drain

its the kind of story I thought my 11 man hard shroud with 3 rogues <400hp's should have went..... but we were able to 2 round prt 4 with 2 great healers

well there is always next time......... gl

[Nuralanya]

A lot of elitism going on in this thread. Too many expectations. This is a normal shroud, I would never run this toon on hard or elite. I just got him to cap and have not yet crafted a DR breaker. Maybe I should have a breaker crafted by someone else for me but on a normal shroud it isn't absolutely essential. I can't afford to buy a good DR breaker at the moment [...]

There are bargains to be had if you look for them, and it doesn't involve camping at the AH for weeks either - just keep your eyes open when browsing for other stuff. I am by no means a 'great' player, nor do I have a ton of plat... however, I did know about DR-breakers and I grabbed one (Holy Silver) when I saw it. A couple of months later I got a second one very cheap (Metalline of PG) - this was at mid-levels when the character wasn't even flagged for Shroud, but I knew I would need them at some point and why wait until you hit cap to be 'ready' for something like Shroud? They may not be essential for running on Normal, but anything that makes it faster and easier can't be a bad thing.

I'm not that good at the puzzles and I see no reason to be. I use the solver. It's no big deal.

I used to be scared of the puzzles. My brain insisted I couldn't do them. Then I learned how to solve them (with the aid of this post: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=228976), and now I can do my own and help others who are stuck - it's a nice feeling, I can tell you! Now I feel foolish for not trying to learn earlier, especially once I realised how simple the 4x4 is. Honestly, it's faster to do it yourself than use a solver. Take a look for yourself, and you'll see "it's no big deal" to learn how.

I don't think it's elitist or expecting too much at all, and I'm a butterfly-chasing roleplayer. If I don't think it is, then nor should you.


(P.S. I love that my spell-checker didn't like 'Metalline', and offered 'Metallica' as an alternative... )

[jeremyt]

So the LFM did state DR breakers and know how to solve puzzle? ...and folks showed up without DR breakers. Seriously, IMO that is disrespectful. Sure 99% of the time it doesnt cause fails because not many people would have the audacity to show up THAT unprepared/clueless for a raid. So you dont have plats to buy a boss beater (tons of options currently on AH for under 6k plat each right now BTW) but you want healers to bring stacks of heal scrolls which cost more and are expendable? Yep, fail melees do in fact stack with fail arcanes in DDO rules.

BTW norm DR is 15. a +5 shocking burst falch of PG equates to 3.5 dam from PG and shock another 1ish dam from burst for a total of +13 with +5 enhancement factored in. You where effectively wielding a what would be equal to a -2 falchion that bypassed DR, yes that is one more raid slot absolutely contributing to a fail.

[Blackbird]

With Cannith crafting levels of only in the mid-40's you can make a holy of evil outsider bane. Buy a cheap silver weapon on the AH, strip it, and that's better than a Min II as a boss beater in Shroud.