Arty: Crossbow or Spell Enhancements?

[Singular]

Hey,

With the artificer's limited APs, I've been wondering - what is better at end game, maxing out Xbow damage (via full Arty damage boosts + endless fullisade + extra arty boosts/rest {an extra 7 APs} or going for full 7/7/7 in spell lines that help your toon (like Force/Fire or Force/Elec or Force/Acid, etc).

What do you think?

And end game?

Thanks!

[Jaid314]

i like the crossbow damage and hit lines, but don't recommend the power boost beyond 2 (and only go as far as 2 because it's a prereq for battle engineer). i wouldn't worry too much about the extra boosts either, personally. but i suppose it depends how often you use them.

edit: that said, i'd guess the damage and to-hit lines are also not as good of a deal as investing more in force and electric damage. blade barrier is crazy good, and your rune arm adds a crudload of damage if you can afford to charge it.

[DeafeningWhisper]

On casting lines: pick one and go 7/1/1 force if you use Lucid Dreams, lightning if Toven at end game.

Forget the extra boost, ToD necklaces that grant extra uses of boosts are better and frees AP, drop damage boost after II aswell unless you're human/helf in which case Human Versatility will get you skill/attack/damage/save boosts all rolled into one.

If anything try to fit runearm enhancements (faster cooldowns) for extra dps in boss fights.

Unless it's a "running around" boss fight put your runearm use feat in your shortcut bar and toggle it on to add anywhere from 500 to 1000 per full discharge of a Lucid Dream with full force line.

[Bogenbroom]

On casting lines: pick one and go 7/1/1 force if you use Lucid Dreams, lightning if Toven at end game.

Forget the extra boost, ToD necklaces that grant extra uses of boosts are better and frees AP, drop damage boost after II aswell unless you're human/helf in which case Human Versatility will get you skill/attack/damage/save boosts all rolled into one.

If anything try to fit runearm enhancements (faster cooldowns) for extra dps in boss fights.

Unless it's a "running around" boss fight put your runearm use feat in your shortcut bar and toggle it on to add anywhere from 500 to 1000 per full discharge of a Lucid Dream with full force line.

^this^ I don't have a Toven's but Lucid Dreams was a *MASSIVE* damage upgrade for me. I'd pegged out force, figuring that blade barriers would be my best option, but once I got Lucid Dreams, not only was the Potency a huge improvement on my BBs, but the Force Damage from the itself was just unexpectedly high.

[BlackSteel]

with a good DC, the DPS from your rune arm will actually surpass your xbow damage at cap. I wouldnt neglect either, but if I had to pick which to enhance further, I would go with the rune arm.

I save points by neglecting the xbow attack enhancements (but I do have multiple fighter PL's) along with the rune arm stable/over charge enhancement past the first. The ones that speed up your charging on the other hand are very nice.

Personally I like seeing Five rune arm charges shoot out that do 400-600 each, and 1200++ on crits.

[Singular]

On casting lines: pick one and go 7/1/1 force if you use Lucid Dreams, lightning if Toven at end game.

Forget the extra boost, ToD necklaces that grant extra uses of boosts are better and frees AP, drop damage boost after II aswell unless you're human/helf in which case Human Versatility will get you skill/attack/damage/save boosts all rolled into one.

If anything try to fit runearm enhancements (faster cooldowns) for extra dps in boss fights.

Unless it's a "running around" boss fight put your runearm use feat in your shortcut bar and toggle it on to add anywhere from 500 to 1000 per full discharge of a Lucid Dream with full force line.

Thanks! I need to go flag for and run ToD then!

At the moment, I'm playing a human, using the human and arty boosts with Endless Fullisade to cause lots of damage (on a Lit II). With 7 EF's, it's total fun, and does lots of damage. But I've never tried it the other way to compare - now I have to!

[FuzzyDuck81]

I maxed out the force lines completely on my wf arty, crits with ludic dreams/BB/tactical detonation are awesome.. xbow stuff i took the prereqs for battle engineer but that was basically it, the rest of APs went into some toughness stuff, a bit of healers friend, maxing out the scroll/wand mastery line & a couple other bits here & there.

[LongshotBro]

i haven't had any trouble maxing runearm enhacements, xbow enhancements, and 7/1/1 force and i am currently 1st life Arty 18. The rest of the AP i used for INT, halfling dex, toughness, and extra dragonmarks of healing.
i completely agree with the advice to max the runearm for sure. lucid dreams and other force-based rune arms throw a lot of damage around while you're pew-pew-pewing back and forth through BB with a turret in the middle.
Artificer has mightily impressed me in every way and doesn't feel starved in feats, AP, or anything else.
a lot of people don't like the iron defender either but it is still a vital part of the package imo. i used to have a chaotic mutt but since re-doing it for combat alacrity and lawfulness it seems a lot more likely to do it's job consistently. i thought it would be great for it to break all the boxes, but it got annoying after a while and since switching to a lawful dog it's more reliable.
anyway, it seems pretty hard to go wrong with artificer. definitely make sure to get IPS.
for a barebones answer to the OP question though: both (and rune arm too).

[FooWonk]

1/1/0: +25% damge (+12.5% per AP)
After this additional enhancements provide approximately +3% per AP.

7/1/1: +50% damage (+5.5% per AP)

7/6/1: +62% damage (+5.2% per AP)

7/6/6: +73% damage (+3.8% per AP)

Improved Rune Arm Use IV: +50% rune-arm DPS (+5% per AP)

Crossbow Damage II: +2 DPS (+1 DPS per AP or +0.5% per AP)

Extra Action Boost I: Endless Fusillade last 3 minutes

Extra Action Boost II: Endless Fusillade last 3.5 minutes

----

I recommend 7/6/1 & Improved Rune Arm Use IV at the minimum! If we could spend 80 AP to add +400% DPS, we'd all do it!

Battle Engineer is expensive (11 AP) but worth it if you're using a crossbow.

Deadly Kinetics VI is worth adding if you have AP for it. I'd get wand & scroll IV & toughness II first.

Crossbow damage II can be dropped with little impact to a build.

I'd not recommend extra action boosts unless you're really good at using all of your action boosts between shrines.

[Singular]

1/1/0: +25% damge (+12.5% per AP)
After this additional enhancements provide approximately +3% per AP.

7/1/1: +50% damage (+5.5% per AP)

7/6/1: +62% damage (+5.2% per AP)

7/6/6: +73% damage (+3.8% per AP)

Improved Rune Arm Use IV: +50% rune-arm DPS (+5% per AP)

Crossbow Damage II: +2 DPS (+1 DPS per AP or +0.5% per AP)

Extra Action Boost I: Endless Fusillade last 3 minutes

Extra Action Boost II: Endless Fusillade last 3.5 minutes

----

I recommend 7/6/1 & Improved Rune Arm Use IV at the minimum! If we could spend 80 AP to add +400% DPS, we'd all do it!

Battle Engineer is expensive (11 AP) but worth it if you're using a crossbow.

Deadly Kinetics VI is worth adding if you have AP for it. I'd get wand & scroll IV & toughness II first.

Crossbow damage II can be dropped with little impact to a build.

I'd not recommend extra action boosts unless you're really good at using all of your action boosts between shrines.

Thanks! That's fantastic information you supplied. +1

Yeah, I played with the extra action boosts for a bit and then dropped them in favor of maxing out force. And I was lucky enough to pull one of those extra action boosty things from one of the Shavarath quests.

I never really use wants or scrolls so didn't touch that line of enhancements. Are they so useful?

[Ascendius]

Thanks! That's fantastic information you supplied. +1

Yeah, I played with the extra action boosts for a bit and then dropped them in favor of maxing out force. And I was lucky enough to pull one of those extra action boosty things from one of the Shavarath quests.

I never really use wants or scrolls so didn't touch that line of enhancements. Are they so useful?

The scroll line is very dependent on your playstyle/build. I like to have the full scroll line because I conserve my spellpoints as best as possible for good habit, which becomes important during raids or Epic Elite quests. I also take on roles of support healing with heal/reconstruct scrolls.

You can get away with the line if you don't mind using sp potions or invested in the mental toughness feats. Just make sure you have reconstruct and repair critical wounds hotkeyed for easy access if you are warforged. I don't have a flesh Artificer, but I imagine you really want at least some of the line and a very good concentration to keep yourself alive in tough situations.

I personally enjoy getting through quests not using spellpoint potions, and I don't have the mental toughness feats so I can pick up evocation focus feats (helps spells and runearm dc checks) and other better choices, like rapid shot.

As for other enhancements for endgame, once you have enough fate points to twist Energy Burst from Draconic, or if you plan on using Draconic as your main destiny. You will be having almost the full lines of both force and electric/sonic (you can spend a point less on the crit chance if you want). Until then, you can just specialize for full force and spend APs on whatever resonates with you.

As FooWonk says, Improved Rune Arm Use IV is highly recommended and just get the bare minimum to qualify for Battle Engineer.

[Singular]

The scroll line is very dependent on your playstyle/build. I like to have the full scroll line because I conserve my spellpoints as best as possible for good habit, which becomes important during raids or Epic Elite quests. I also take on roles of support healing with heal/reconstruct scrolls.

You can get away with the line if you don't mind using sp potions or invested in the mental toughness feats. Just make sure you have reconstruct and repair critical wounds hotkeyed for easy access if you are warforged. I don't have a flesh Artificer, but I imagine you really want at least some of the line and a very good concentration to keep yourself alive in tough situations.

I personally enjoy getting through quests not using spellpoint potions, and I don't have the mental toughness feats so I can pick up evocation focus feats (helps spells and runearm dc checks) and other better choices, like rapid shot.

As for other enhancements for endgame, once you have enough fate points to twist Energy Burst from Draconic, or if you plan on using Draconic as your main destiny. You will be having almost the full lines of both force and electric/sonic (you can spend a point less on the crit chance if you want). Until then, you can just specialize for full force and spend APs on whatever resonates with you.

As FooWonk says, Improved Rune Arm Use IV is highly recommended and just get the bare minimum to qualify for Battle Engineer.

You know, I'm starting to see what you mean. I'm running two toons right now. Initially I started both with lots of focus on crossbow damage. But, as they get higher in levels, I found that I have to switch focus to spellpower. One is level 22 and has construct essence. It's useful, but not overly. She does a ton of damage with maxed out spellpower in force and fire (force ruin arm, the new one). The other I went went how you suggest above -scrolling and wanding it. If I'm slightly more cautious and hang back more, this method works pretty well - no need to panic heal

I find two problems with this:

first, the curative admixture cure serious spell doesn't auto target you - if you don't click on you, it misses and you've wasted an expensive spell component.

second, if you're panic healing and use wands or scrolls, you have to switch back to your weapon before doing useful damage again. That's frustrating.

Last, I added the feat quick draw so I could switch between items quickly. I'm not noticing any change whatsoever and seem to have a small lag between switches. That really sucks, since it's supposed to go with this build. Maybe it's bugged?

[FooWonk]

I find targeting of admixtures to be the least enjoyable aspect of playing an artificer. When throwing the pots at yourself, aim at the ground in front of you. I rarely use these on myself when I'm alone, they're much more SP-efficient when I have nearby allies that are benefiting.

if you're panic healing and use wands or scrolls, you have to switch back to your weapon before doing useful damage again. That's frustrating.

Pausing to UMD self-heal is frustrating no matter the class. Remember though that your rune-arm can continue to charge while you swap your main-hand items (on most builds the rune-arm produces well over 60% of their non-burst DPS).

Any build with a monk or rogue splash can get 60+ diplomacy. This will enable you to shed aggro in many situations.

Even if you can't max diplomacy, invest in it and bluff for threat reduction. Bluff is targeted. Diplomacy is a large AoE. Also wear some threat reduction items. If my artificer gets aggro, it means I've done something dumb or my party has no DPS (diplo & -65% hate should mean find someone else to hit).

Last, I added the feat quick draw so I could switch between items quickly. I'm not noticing any change whatsoever and seem to have a small lag between switches. That really sucks, since it's supposed to go with this build. Maybe it's bugged?

My favored soul & wizard don't have Quick Draw. My artificer did. After one release several months ago, my artificer no longer seemed so fast on the draw. I responded by trading a quick draw & a flawless siberys dragonshard to Fred for a new feat.

[nibel]

Keep force enhancements for BB and the other damage spells. But myself, I would reccomend an acid runearm over any of the force runearms any day. Glorious Obscenity is better than Lucid if you have a corrosion helmet/ring (or epic rock boots, if you can live without cannith boots), target fortitude (so, also hits evasive mobs, and benefit on bosses with all those improved sunders going off), and I think Seeker +6 on the runearm is more useful than nightmare guard.

The U15 runearm have some doubtful enhancements, and no craftable slots. However, it is a tier 5 imbue (2d10 extra damage per bolt instead of 2d8 obscenity or 2d6 lucid) and innate corrosion.

Extra Action Boost I: Endless Fusillade last 3 minutes

Extra Action Boost II: Endless Fusillade last 3.5 minutes

Are we using the same Endless Fusilade? Mine lasts only 6 seconds per use.

[Chaoscheerio]

Last life on my arti(I plan to do the same this life) I used both spells and my Xbow. As a human artificer the ability to use human versatility: Damage at the same time as Endless Fusillade was very nice, on top of kiting through blades. Personally I would not neglect either spells or the xbow usage; they're both extremely useful parts of being an Artificer.
I also agree with the person who said you should be utilizing your dog. Mine could tank epics for me last life, even with the Evasion capstones; and that is NOT something I would take lightly.