Terror Archer

[tinyelvis]

I am sure something like this has been done, however, here is my take on it. This concept is focused on using Arcane Archer abilities to augment the Pale Master. Imagine prepping your foes with terror arrows before blowing their heads up with with wail. Or hitting that pesky Drow with shattermantle shots, before fingering him. How about dropping some DOTs on Harry, then switching on Many Shot for 20 seconds of super high combined DPS. This is the goal with this build. I decided to post here, because frankly I think it might be beyond the imagination of most folks in the caster section.

Elf (True Neutral) Wizard Arcane Archer Pale Master
Starting with at least two past lives

Str 14
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 18 (<-- all level ups here)
Wis 8
Cha 8

Feats:
1) Point Blank Shot, (Spell focus conjuration... swap for necromancy later (Wizard))
3) Rapid Shot
5) Heighten Spell (Wizard)
6) Weapon Focus Ranged
9) Toughness
10) Maximize Spell (W)
12) Manyshot
15) Greater Spell focus Necro, Spell Pen (W)
18) Bow Strength
20) Empower Spell (W)

Enhancements:
Wizard Master of Magic
Wizard Pale Master I
Wizard Pale Master II
Wizard Pale Master III
Wizard Intelligence III
Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Shroud of the Lich
Elven Arcanum III
Elven Ranged Attack II
Elven Dexterity I
Racial Toughness I

Storm Manipulation VII, Deadly Shocks I, Charged Spellcasting I
Frost Manipulation VII, Deadly Ice I, Glacial Spellcasting I
Spell pen II
Elven Arcane Archer I
Arcane Archer (Conjure +2 Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Conjure +3 Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Conjure +4 Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Conjure +5 Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Imbue Acid Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Imbue Explosive Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Imbue Force Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Imbue Slaying Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Imbue Terror Arrows)

Elven Dex I and Ranged Damage II were chosen to help make up for the fact that dex is a secondary stat.In essence this makes up party for the missing stat level boosts. Elven Arcanum III was chosen to make up some spell pen deficiencies. I will choose an acid/Ice path while leveling and switch to Ice/Electric with some acid (for acid rain and BDB), and a tiny bit of force for disintegrate end game.

I think there may be some issues with to hit with bows close to cap. During leveling I will go with a +4 masterwork crafted attack item and ranged alacrity as well as top knotch bows at every level. It will also be necessary to use a divine power clicky(s). I cant believe I could squeeze in the bare minimum feats that I wanted to. I look forward to trying this out in a week or so. Frankly, I am surprised we dont see more of these out there.

Hopefully, I didn't miss some big.

Edit: ****, I missed bow strength. I can squeeze it in with past lives of wizard to make up for spell pen and taking half elf ranger dili. Or possibly replace quicken with Greater necro focus if that is possible.

[akash]

For 36 point build I would dump STR, WIS, and CHA and start with 14 DEX, 16 CON, and 18 INT. Must eat at least +3 tomes in all stats to cover up the loss.

[Teharahma]

For 36 point build I would dump STR, WIS, and CHA and start with 14 DEX, 16 CON, and 18 INT. Must eat at least +3 tomes in all stats to cover up the loss.

Agree with this.
Max INT, always.

[Moltier]

Your dps would be horrible low.
First, with that low dex and bab, your buffed attack will be too low. Maybe enough for harry, but will miss a lot of important foes.
Then, manyshot with 10bab will produce 2 arrows... and without bowstrength for even less damage.

For debuffing the build may can work.

I like this party of your post: "I decided to post here, because frankly I think it might be beyond the imagination of most folks in the caster section."

[Bacab]

Your dps would be horrible low.
First, with that low dex and bab, your buffed attack will be too low. Maybe enough for harry, but will miss a lot of important foes.
Then, manyshot with 10bab will produce 2 arrows... and without bowstrength for even less damage.

For debuffing the build may can work.

I like this party of your post: "I decided to post here, because frankly I think it might be beyond the imagination of most folks in the caster section."

Its not my type of build...because I don't like Elves and I am not that interested in ranged attack other than Arty....

but...

With Divine Power Clickies going he will have a Fighter's attack roll.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Sorcerer/wizard class: High Burst/AoE DPS
Arcane Archer: High Burst/AoE DPS

The outcome of this build is that both are worse and the combination is less than 1 or the other alone.

If you want a casting arcane archer consider cleric, favoured soul, bard or artificer as the base class.

[tinyelvis]

For 36 point build I would dump STR, WIS, and CHA and start with 14 DEX, 16 CON, and 18 INT. Must eat at least +3 tomes in all stats to cover up the loss.

Overall I think these are poorly thought out suggestions. 20 hps is really nothing when you think of 400+ hp toon, and at an expense of 6 build points, so the con bump is not a good idea. Strength is needed for bow damage. Without strength no point in bow use. An 18 int would be nice. This is the only good suggestion, however, it is also so costly. I would consider dumping Cha and Wis if I could get something useful for it.

These are suggestions for a min/max arcane build. I dont think you understand ranged toons.

[tinyelvis]

Sorcerer/wizard class: High Burst/AoE DPS
Arcane Archer: High Burst/AoE DPS

The outcome of this build is that both are worse and the combination is less than 1 or the other alone.

If you want a casting arcane archer consider cleric, favoured soul, bard or artificer as the base class.

I would ask you to look again.

You essentially lose one DC point. You gain Boss DPS. You gain the ability to easily deal with masses of Drow or other high spell resistant foes. There is no way any pure archer build can out perform this toon in epic play. It can insta kill trash and Dot bosses. There is no way any pure PM can put up as much boss DPS as this build. It can put up equivalent spell damage and add bow DPS. How do you figure it is weaker?

You folks read thru the whole build before commenting. That is why I posted here. I expected more. What bothers me most here is spell penetration.

[uthanak69]

So, you post asking for advice, then tell everyone they're wrong. Why did you post in the first place?

[akash]

Overall I think these are poorly thought out suggestions. 20 hps is really nothing when you think of 400+ hp toon, and at an expense of 6 build points, so the con bump is not a good idea. Strength is needed for bow damage. Without strength no point in bow use. An 18 int would be nice. This is the only good suggestion, however, it is also so costly. I would consider dumping Cha and Wis if I could get something useful for it.

These are suggestions for a min/max arcane build. I dont think you understand ranged toons.

Why STR is needed when you dumped the Bow Strength? I also suggested to tome up in those areas. In the end I believe everyone should make the toon which they enjoy playing no matter how good or how gimped it is.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I would ask you to look again.

You essentially lose one DC point. You gain Boss DPS. You gain the ability to easily deal with masses of Drow or other high spell resistant foes. There is no way any pure archer build can out perform this toon in epic play. It can insta kill trash and Dot bosses. There is no way any pure PM can put up as much boss DPS as this build. It can put up equivalent spell damage and add bow DPS. How do you figure it is weaker?

You folks read thru the whole build before commenting. That is why I posted here. I expected more. What bothers me most here is spell penetration.

I read the build and I still have the same opinion.

Feats: you lose 5 feats from casting which means no extend, mental toughness, spell penetration, greater spell penetration or insightful reflexes. If you have 30 spell pen it's fine to miss the spell pen (do you?). Without IR you won't hit the +35 reflex save that really starts to see a significant reduction in incoming damage. Extend/mental toughness are fine to miss once you have gear like torc and bauble to make up the difference but you're missing the opportunity to take shield mastery in this case (which is a much better use for those feats).

Enhancements: 21 action points to ranged. On my wizard I've had the opportunity to max 3 elemental lines giving me exceptional versatility (which is the strength of the class).

Race: 16 base intelligence might sound like -1 DC but really it's -2 compared to human/drow. I'm at 43 necro, 41 enchant, 41 conjuration on my first life drow wizard, what DCs are you looking at?

Concept: Palemasters shine when they are geared in such a way as to be able to grab aggro and love it. You mention the utility of combining bow and casting but combining casting with guards is much better. Nothing the bow gives can compare to what stacked guards provide a well geared palemaster. Perhaps it's possible to have all 3 but I doubt it.

Gear: you haven't mentioned any gear and that is a massive flaw, you can't fit everything in that you want to make ranged combat and casting viable.

AB: Even with epic gear you'll still struggle to hit in epic content, it just isn't going to happen between your low dex, contended inventory slots and minimal ranged investment.

HP: I doubt it.

What a waste of my time.

[Missing_Minds]

End result. With a bow, you'll be able to hit things on normal and casual, hard.. maybe, elite 1 in 10. Your bow will be worthless.

If this were PnP, you'd be fine, but it isn't.

[Doxmaster]

Show us what your planned gear setup is going to be. That will prove or disprove the effectiveness of this character.

Do you have your bows already? Unlike other archers, you can't afford to play catch up (and they are already trying to catch-up to melees), so you should probably have everything ready before you make the character.

Anyway...

Drop Improved Crit and dump Strength. Ignore Bow-strength.

This will let you shore up your stats. The main focus should be landing your Improved Curse and Terror arrows so your spells barely have to beat any DC at all; shattermantle on drow. Manyshot wont do as much for you as it would others, so that could be safely dumped as well; consider Precise Shot or a casting feat in its place.

[Matuse]

So, you post asking for advice, then tell everyone they're wrong. Why did you post in the first place?

Look at his posting history, and you'll know.

Then put him on ignore.

[Moltier]

Its not my type of build...because I don't like Elves and I am not that interested in ranged attack other than Arty....

but...

With Divine Power Clickies going he will have a Fighter's attack roll.

Thats true. Sadly those clickies wont increase attack speed like normal bab do,
and the build dont have bow strength. :/
A normal wizard can out dps a weak manyshot+dots easily.

[tinyelvis]

I read the build and I still have the same opinion.

Feats: you lose 5 feats from casting which means no extend, mental toughness, spell penetration, greater spell penetration or insightful reflexes. If you have 30 spell pen it's fine to miss the spell pen (do you?). Without IR you won't hit the +35 reflex save that really starts to see a significant reduction in incoming damage. Extend/mental toughness are fine to miss once you have gear like torc and bauble to make up the difference but you're missing the opportunity to take shield mastery in this case (which is a much better use for those feats).

Enhancements: 21 action points to ranged. On my wizard I've had the opportunity to max 3 elemental lines giving me exceptional versatility (which is the strength of the class).

Race: 16 base intelligence might sound like -1 DC but really it's -2 compared to human/drow. I'm at 43 necro, 41 enchant, 41 conjuration on my first life drow wizard, what DCs are you looking at?

Concept: Palemasters shine when they are geared in such a way as to be able to grab aggro and love it. You mention the utility of combining bow and casting but combining casting with guards is much better. Nothing the bow gives can compare to what stacked guards provide a well geared palemaster. Perhaps it's possible to have all 3 but I doubt it.

Gear: you haven't mentioned any gear and that is a massive flaw, you can't fit everything in that you want to make ranged combat and casting viable.

AB: Even with epic gear you'll still struggle to hit in epic content, it just isn't going to happen between your low dex, contended inventory slots and minimal ranged investment.

HP: I doubt it.

What a waste of my time.

Extend is completely unnecessary in an offensive build and has been since its effect on persistent offensive spells was removed. Mental toughness, surely you are kidding here. I would take another spell focus before either of those feats. Even so,the elven arcanum adds over half what that would. The difference amounts to one less offensive spell. Insightful reflexes is not a requirement on a caster. A typical sorcerer pulls far more aggro and typically has a lower reflex save. These points hardly define a caster they are just different from your caster.

Which leaves spell penetration. Spell penetration is the troublesome area as written. I definitely need to address it. Here is what I see doing, I will add spell penetration feat and pick up two wizard spell pen enhancements.

3 elven arcanum
2 Wiz enhancements
2 Spell pen feat

7 total

This before any bonus for past lives, or item buffs. In my case that will mean a 31 for eighth and below, and a 30 otherwise. This is higher than the typical wizard. If one were to add 3 past wiz lives you are looking at 37 spell pen. This is plenty high enough. Especially when you consider that this toon can self debuff 6 spell resistance.

As for intelligence, this toon can have at least
16 base
5 levels
3 Enhancements
10 Item bonus
4 Tome
1 Litany
2 Capstone
2 Lich form
43 total < ----- I will have 42, 44 with yugo, 46 with store

19 Base
17 Stat Bonus (19 with pots)
2 focus
2 item
1 Enhancement

Which is 41 to 43 necro DC.

Both the Intelligence and the DC are higher than the typical wizard. With a wizard past life this would go one higher. I see issues with this build but its not intelligence and/or spell DC.

To hit is another issue, like I mentioned. It is average to poor. However, with item bonuses and enhancements, it wont be the issue that you make out and it is a non issue while leveling. Besides, he doesnt need to hit 50% of the time to put out more overall DPS than the typical wizard. Finally, if I am mistaken and he can not hit anything end game ( I pretty much know this is not the case), then its no big deal. Just respec the feats and enhancements, or TR.

Why would you think guards would trump a bow. You can direct a bow at any foe you like. I would like to see you direct your guards at those 6 drow archers peppering your party with arrows. Which guard that you use is the shattermantle guard? How do you use your guard to help take down pillars better than a bow. Why on earth would you prefer a random event over something you directly control? Besides, why are guards and bows even mutually exclusive. My current divine archer has a number of guards active at any one time. He also typically uses a bow that procs two cc effects. Guess which goes off more often.

Why do you whine about waste of time. This is my thread. If anyone's time is wasted it is mine. Keep in mind I was playing wizards four years before you even started your first wizard. In fact, I stopped playing wizards long before you started playing wizards. My last wizard is my storage shed and dates back to the first year the game came out.

[tinyelvis]

End result. With a bow, you'll be able to hit things on normal and casual, hard.. maybe, elite 1 in 10. Your bow will be worthless.

If this were PnP, you'd be fine, but it isn't.

You are clearly over exaggerating here. Look at the build. He is down but 9 Dex from a typical Max Dex ranged build. That is 4 and a half to hit points. Two of these points are made up by enhancements. That means he is down typically 2 and a half points. Are you claiming the typical max dex archer lands maybe 2 in 10 shots?

[Doxmaster]

-...-

No response for me? I'm insulted.

A complete gear list can come later, but you really should consider the rest of my post. You won't be doing much damage, even if you do get bow strength, so why bother with it at all? Forgetting strength will let you max out your Int, which should silence some of the nay-sayers.

I used a 18 Int, 14 con, 16 dex build(after racial) for my own PM archer a while ago, before I scrapped him to make a evoker Archmage. Specced off of slaying arrows just after I got them.

[tinyelvis]

No response for me? I'm insulted.

A complete gear list can come later, but you really should consider the rest of my post. You won't be doing much damage, even if you do get bow strength, so why bother with it at all? Forgetting strength will let you max out your Int, which should silence some of the nay-sayers.

I used a 18 Int, 14 con, 16 dex build(after racial) for my own PM archer a while ago, before I scrapped him to make a evoker Archmage. Specced off of slaying arrows just after I got them.

I am sorry friend. Everyone sometimes feels they are the center of the World. I can't respond to everyone or all things. Especially when there is so much seething hate for an idea or when some of your questions were answered in the first post of the thread.

Ok, so you essentially had the same to hit ability with your build. Doesnt seem like you scapped him early. Did you scrap him because he could not hit ever in end game content?

Let's see in my first post I addressed the bow strength issue. I direct you there for that answer. Plus in another response I pointed out the need for bow strength on an archer build. I am confused, do you think I have now changed my mind?... I havent. It seems you agree, so should you not be pointing this out to others who think a min/max approach in just INT and Con is all that is necessary. You seem to have special experience with an arcane range build that starts with 16 dex. I certainly would find it useful to hear your views on the issue, as opposed to the third degree.

As for equipment and bows, this really is another trivial question. I will use Lit II by 11th level and a crafted item (as well as up to half a dozen other specialized bows). At capped levels I swap pretty frequently between Lit II and Elemental bow (the 16th level version since it typically does more damage). I have plenty of epic rewards to make an epic elemental but as of yet have no need. Much of questing involves using the correct arrows on the correct target. The only bow I desire that I dont have is Unwavering ard, and that one has less of bonus to hit and I really dont think it can outperform the bows that I use anyway so really does not impact this argument. Bows are incredibly easy to make and get. Do you find otherwise?

I dont have epic to hit items. Never had a need to get them as of yet. You can craft similar bonuses on single items. For example, +4 to hit I will be running with at low levels in a single item (as opposed to say Vulk set).

However, dancing mobs get a -4 to hit. Held are even easier. Couple this with the often use of a bow that procs not only CC but destruction for another big minus to mob ACs and I dont really anticipate an issue.

Granted this is pretty much a new idea. I get it. You guys cant imagine it working. This build essentially has the to hit of a strength build toon (i.e. some rangers), and the casting of a better than average Pure built wizard. It is rediculous to think that a multi toon can have all of the capabilities of either class. I am not sure why you guys are holding it to that standard. I focused on things I thought important. I am not sure why you folks are being so overly critical.

In these forums new ideas are generally poorly received. I clearly see that is the case here.

[Missing_Minds]

You are clearly over exaggerating here.

No exaggeration at all given my wife already did a build like this so I've seen it first hand.

You can look at your build and let your ego massage you as much as you want. I've watched it in action.