So I just learned what Epic Drow SR is.....

[Uska]

If you be really nice to your melee, maybe they will toss a shattermantle weapon into their offhand.

Well put

[delsoboss]

Ah, everytime i see threads like this i remember the good old days of Baldur's Gate 2 and the perfection of the spell system there, the game really rewarded carefull planning and versatility in assigning your spell slots.

There was a host of spells to counter magic defenses (spell thrust, breach, ruby ray of reversal) and to suppress spell resistance* (lower resistance, pierce magic and pierce shield).

And then there were Mislead, Project Image and Simulacrum ...oh the memories, humbling dragons with my illusions and then stepping in for the killing blow.

Funny bit: once confronting Firkraag i used all the spell res lowering spells i had, all the debuff spells my party had (including divine ones) and then threw at him a chromatic sphere and BAM pietrification, one swing and Firkraag was no more, sadly there were no scales, gems, or Carsomyr either so i reloaded, but anyway fun times!

Ok, let's stop the trip down memory lane, all this to say that sadly all we have is just a shade of the true versatility a d&d caster should have, and if these threads don't degenrate in s**t-storms maybe the Devs could implement some of those old utility spells.

*That in AD&D was percentage based so high level drow and other nasty monsters in BG2 had (oh the horror) close to 90% spell resistance or more.

[Havok.cry]

Did you read the OP?

But if he's taking the good advice given in the thread, good for him...

Yes I did, and I have to point out that telling someone to learn there class without giving advice as to how, telling someone to not be a one trick pony without showing them alternatives, and telling them to go find alternatives to what they tried instead of actually telling them some alternatives, is all useless and patronizing.

[delsoboss]

If you don't catch her fast enough, would greater dispel work? haven't tried it myself but it may be worth checking as many in the community have asked for mobs to get dispellable buffs.

The caste level checks on dispel spells makes them useless in epic as many caster mobs have over the top caster levels.

Even Mordenkainen's Disjunction is next to useless due to the caster level check it has to make ... unlike in pnp where it's the end of magic, where it can tear down antimagic fields and destroy artifacts.

/rage on
UNNERF MORDENKAINEN'S DISJUNCTION NOW!!!!11111!!!!!!!!!eleven!!!!
/rage off

[Havok.cry]

The caste level checks on dispel spells makes them useless in epic as many caster mobs have over the top caster levels.

Even Mordenkainen's Disjunction is next to useless due to the caster level check it has to make ... unlike in pnp where it's the end of magic, where it can tear down antimagic fields and destroy artifacts.

/rage on
UNNERF MORDENKAINEN'S DISJUNCTION NOW!!!!11111!!!!!!!!!eleven!!!!
/rage off

Yeah modenkienens getting un nerfed would be nice. In PnP didn't they make a save for every effect rather than the caster having to make a spell check?

[psteen1]

I would like to reiterate that the underdark will have more than drow. Get into a party-- let the melees kill the drow and you kill something else. Drow are SUPPOSED to have awesome SR. That is their thing.

Instant kills run rampant in all other parts of the game. I agree with Chai; now the melee have something to do.

Isn't this expansion and enhancement pass supposed to even the playing field... just a little bit at least?

[stubythumb]

Rogue approach: assisanated the Raksha guy then hit sneak of shadow went into sneak and thought burned her and she became as useless as a one trick caster.

Wizard approach: PWK'd the Raksha guy cast SF and dropped a DB and a SOD cast invisible smacked her with a improved shatter mantle stick and FOD the priestess and WOB'd the dancing spiders.

Sorc approach: PWK'd the Raksha guy dropped IC and just Nuked her and the spiders like they were innocent standard in PVP.

Barbarian approach: worst as it required a hire and the use of an ioun stone to not get held but trip/stun worked just fine.

All you need to do is try different methods and you'll find a rout that works for any toon

[delsoboss]

Yeah modenkienens getting un nerfed would be nice. In PnP didn't they make a save for every effect rather than the caster having to make a spell check?

Spells and magical effects are removed with no check or saving throw.

Item get a will save (higher between item and owner if owned items) or they are disjuncted becoming normal (masterwork for weapons/armors) items.

1% chance for each caster level to destroy an antimagic field and so affect the spells/items within it, if the antimagic field resists items inside it and spells inside it are unaffected and resume working normally outside the antimagic field.

1% chance for each caster level to destroy artifacts with nasty consequences if you succeed like losing spell casting ability and deities and other powerfull entities hunting you down for destroying the artifact.

[Desdemonte]

Did you read the OP?

I should have explained myself better. What I found laughable was all these people saying there are so many other ways to deal with the situation, but virtually nobody saying what they were. Except Heightened web, which is trading 1 one trick pony for another. At least now I am seeing some feedback.

And I still hold to my belief that it's BS if people are not expected to TR to stay effective with the new epic content. Look at the bonuses coming out lately. I'd like to see a 1st life Wiz go into epics and be able to stay effective without having to feat swap between quests. Some need Conj to be maxed, some need Enchant, all pretty much need Necro. Impossible to do even with the plethora of feat slots Wizzies get. Sure, it may be doable, but it will be a mana pot chug fest.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I should have explained myself better. What I found laughable was all these people saying there are so many other ways to deal with the situation, but virtually nobody saying what they were. Except Heightened web, which is trading 1 one trick pony for another. At least now I am seeing some feedback.

And I still hold to my belief that it's BS if people are not expected to TR to stay effective with the new epic content. Look at the bonuses coming out lately. I'd like to see a 1st life Wiz go into epics and be able to stay effective without having to feat swap between quests. Some need Conj to be maxed, some need Enchant, all pretty much need Necro. Impossible to do even with the plethora of feat slots Wizzies get. Sure, it may be doable, but it will be a mana pot chug fest.

I disagree. This is my wizard with respectable DCs that are higher than many TR builds that I see, sure, I don't have the spell pen which reduces me to a 1-trick pony against 1 enemy in the game - drow - of which there aren't actually all that many and against them web or party members work fine.

Don't need SF:Conjuration or Enchantment when both schools are 41 DC already.

All that said, I'll get around to a TR to elf once I get 20 abbots and shrouds done.

[delsoboss]

Some need Conj to be maxed, some need Enchant, all pretty much need Necro. Impossible to do even with the plethora of feat slots Wizzies get. Sure, it may be doable, but it will be a mana pot chug fest.

This is a perception problem that's swallowing this game whole.

The wizard in the party doesn't need to have anything maxed and do it all alone, there are up to 5 other people there to work with toward the common goal of quest completion.

No speed farm iper duper mutant record of kill count uberness e-peen weaving contest, just completion.

The fact that a visible amount of the player base can get things done fast and with apparent little effort (key words visible* and apparent**) makes everyone think that if you don't do things like them you're doing it wrong.

So people start to grind for every little help to get closer to the very skilled very dedicated players and when things don't work out well it's the end of the world if the wizard can't automatically succeed on anything he/she tries.

*Visible because the people that read the forums read of all the accomplishments and achievements of the very skilled very dedicated players and on the servers this tales of awesomeness spreads like wildfires;
**Apparent little effort because behind all the 1 click room cleared arcanes and divines out there there is someone that has spent time and energies mastering the game and that's the real effort, not clicking the wail button on the hotbar

[Bowser_Koopa]

You can't build a toon that is perfect and able to solo and/or handle every situation in the book do you not get? Heaven forbid turbine put in a anti magic field that wasn't attached to a beholder casters both divine and arcane would quit ddo for good.

If you expect your first life anything to be able to handle the hardest difficulty in the game in every single aspect, ie crowd control, nuking, instakilling, buffing etc you are going to be sadly disjointed many times. Epic is not called Normal it is not meant to be anything but what it is, that being the hardest difficulty.

And because I know you'll bring this up, just because the new content will be 20+ does not mean it will follow the "epic rules" and we are getting a level increase and other tools (enhancements, gear, epic destinies, feats) to deal with the dreaded SR or more hp's or being undead etc.

Just play the game and realize just because your a caster or a clr or even a melee not every enemy is going to have a weakness your particular class/build can exploit 100% of the time. So the mobs save on your web you save on theirs most of the time too or get freedom etc. Get some friends who do have tools in their arsenal to deal with these pesky drow or enhance your weakness which apparently is spell pen. Instakill is not going to be the answer to every challenge you face in the game.

Bowser,

Mobs they hate your spell pen and buffs too but you don't see them here asking the DM to nerf you

[DeafeningWhisper]

I remember when I 1st ran ETides on my 1st life PM and suddently seen blue shields pop-up and realising my insta-kill wasn't gonna cut it, then I remembered "oh yeah I have Max and Emp for dps during boss fights, guess I'll just run with that on for drows and only insta-kill the hobs".

As a Pm I invested 7-1-1 on elec and ice for Dots and dps, heightened Web does work wonders with Ice Storm on top of it, Necro ray anything that frees itself and kite it back into the webbed ice storm or shield tank it while your melees rip it to pieces.

I personaly love the high SR of drows, it changes the game from "wait until Wail/FoD/PWK is off timer" to "an actual fight".

[Phidius]

I wouldn't mind Epic Drow being virtually immune to spells with an SR check if my level 20 Drow had a prayer of using his for something other than blocking his own Holy Aura spell.

It would be nice if Turbine would use level 20-25 mobs in the epic quests, but then they wouldn't be a challenge. Hopefully, some day Turbine will have a way to increase a mob's challenge rating without doubling their level.

Just imagine if mobs were given epic loot to become more challenging - then we could really get use out of Disjunction.

[Phidius]

...
Mobs they hate your spell pen and buffs too but you don't see them here asking the DM to nerf you

Epic mobs aren't even aware that we have spell pen, and they can get rid of your buffs anytime they please.

You don't see them here asking the DM to nerf us because there's absolutely no need for it.

[maddmatt70]

Epic mobs aren't even aware that we have spell pen, and they can get rid of your buffs anytime they please.

You don't see them here asking the DM to nerf us because there's absolutely no need for it.

Come this summer either update 13 or 14 player drow spell resistance will get substantially raised I am guessing mid 40s as well. Hopefully the devs can confirm this, but it has been player complaint for a long time that player drow spell resistance is not sufficient at the end game..

[Phidius]

Come this summer either update 13 or 14 player drow spell resistance will get substantially raised I am guessing mid 40s as well. Hopefully the devs can confirm this, but it has been player complaint for a long time that player drow spell resistance is not sufficient at the end game..

Boosting PC Drow Spell Resistance will just "fix" one aspect of the imbalance - they're going to need to "fix" every other aspect of the game that is based on character level. At the moment, the only thing I can think of besides SR is Dispel checks, but I'll bet there's plenty more.

[Chai]

I should have explained myself better. What I found laughable was all these people saying there are so many other ways to deal with the situation, but virtually nobody saying what they were. Except Heightened web, which is trading 1 one trick pony for another. At least now I am seeing some feedback.

And I still hold to my belief that it's BS if people are not expected to TR to stay effective with the new epic content. Look at the bonuses coming out lately. I'd like to see a 1st life Wiz go into epics and be able to stay effective without having to feat swap between quests. Some need Conj to be maxed, some need Enchant, all pretty much need Necro. Impossible to do even with the plethora of feat slots Wizzies get. Sure, it may be doable, but it will be a mana pot chug fest.

Ive done it on a first life wiz, np. There was no pots used, whatsoever. Please note that theres a huge difference between staying effective, and completely destroying 99% of all mobs while the rest of the group follows along to loot chests. What people are REALLY moaning about regarding this new content is that they cant solo it with the greatest of ease like they can most other epics.

Ever run house D epics or eVoN 3? The same tactics can be used and have been for the longest time now. Epic drow are not new to us by a long shot.

A first life wiz or sorc doesnt need to TR in order to kite mobs through acid rain. I still call BS on needing to TR. We didnt need to TR before to run epics with drow in them. We simply did the research on what spells they are vulnerable to, and as many who relied on the same three buttons for the longest time are finding out, its not the same spells they use in most other content.

These types of threads have "ZOMG I CANT FARM SCROLLS ON MY PM" written all over them.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Some of you guys are going to love Driders!

[Desdemonte]

These types of threads have "ZOMG I CANT FARM SCROLLS ON MY PM" written all over them.

Well not this one, 'cause I got bored of my PM and went on to a Cleric life. Plus the same scrolls drop in Lords of Dust...