So I just learned what Epic Drow SR is.....

[Desdemonte]

SR=45

Are you freaking kidding me?

I saw a thread a while back from someone asking if people are now expected to TR their characters multiple times to have any relevance at end game (once the expansion hits). I saw a lot of people offer sage advice such as not being a one trick pony, learn how to play your class, find alternatives to FoD/Wail/Dancing Ball like a heightened Web....

I find this all laughable.

I spent plenty of time on my 4th life (3 of them wiz) Wizard in the new preview quests seeing nothing but blue shields on drow archers and drow casters waltzing right through my webs.

This toon is *almost* fully geared out, with everything I would need *and more* as a 1st life caster. My Spell Pen is 32. Necro/Enchant DCs at 42.

SR of 45????? The only way a guildy and myself have determined to come close to not burning through the blue bars is to do a 3x Fvs, 3x Wiz ending on an Elf Wiz.

So people aren't expected to have to multi TR their toons to be relevant? I call BS!

This got me wondering- what do the various creatures have for SR through the game, and at Epic. Anybody have a link? What DCs are necessary for different mobs in Epic? Where are we headed?

As far as I can tell, we are headed toward being forced to chug SP pots purchased from the DDO store, on multi-TRd toons that have chugged XP pots from the DDO store, using stat buff pots purchased through the DDO store.

Seeing a trend here?

[Vordax]

SR=45

Drow are pretty much the worst when it comes to SR, their SR is level + 11. Most epic drow are around CR 35, which translate to level 34 so an SR of 45. Most of the rest of the epic/end game mobs I have ran into have an SR quite a bit lower.

Vordax

[Varashad]

The Drow really could use an SR nerf. Forty would still be hard to beat, but it would give you at least some chance of CCing them. The only way I've found to deal with Drow is to hage and displace your melees, and hope for the best.

[Chai]

The Drow really could use an SR nerf. Forty would still be hard to beat, but it would give you at least some chance of CCing them. The only way I've found to deal with Drow is to hage and displace your melees, and hope for the best.

If you be really nice to your melee, maybe they will toss a shattermantle weapon into their offhand.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

If you be really nice to your melee, maybe they will toss a shattermantle weapon into their offhand.

I detect a note of lol in this mate!

Pre-Crafted a +5 Imp Cursespewing of Imp Shattermantle HRXBow for my Arti

[Uska]

If you be really nice to your melee, maybe they will toss a shattermantle weapon into their offhand.

Well put

[Bowser_Koopa]

You can't build a toon that is perfect and able to solo and/or handle every situation in the book do you not get? Heaven forbid turbine put in a anti magic field that wasn't attached to a beholder casters both divine and arcane would quit ddo for good.

If you expect your first life anything to be able to handle the hardest difficulty in the game in every single aspect, ie crowd control, nuking, instakilling, buffing etc you are going to be sadly disjointed many times. Epic is not called Normal it is not meant to be anything but what it is, that being the hardest difficulty.

And because I know you'll bring this up, just because the new content will be 20+ does not mean it will follow the "epic rules" and we are getting a level increase and other tools (enhancements, gear, epic destinies, feats) to deal with the dreaded SR or more hp's or being undead etc.

Just play the game and realize just because your a caster or a clr or even a melee not every enemy is going to have a weakness your particular class/build can exploit 100% of the time. So the mobs save on your web you save on theirs most of the time too or get freedom etc. Get some friends who do have tools in their arsenal to deal with these pesky drow or enhance your weakness which apparently is spell pen. Instakill is not going to be the answer to every challenge you face in the game.

Bowser,

Mobs they hate your spell pen and buffs too but you don't see them here asking the DM to nerf you

[Phidius]

...
Mobs they hate your spell pen and buffs too but you don't see them here asking the DM to nerf you

Epic mobs aren't even aware that we have spell pen, and they can get rid of your buffs anytime they please.

You don't see them here asking the DM to nerf us because there's absolutely no need for it.

[DeafeningWhisper]

I remember when I 1st ran ETides on my 1st life PM and suddently seen blue shields pop-up and realising my insta-kill wasn't gonna cut it, then I remembered "oh yeah I have Max and Emp for dps during boss fights, guess I'll just run with that on for drows and only insta-kill the hobs".

As a Pm I invested 7-1-1 on elec and ice for Dots and dps, heightened Web does work wonders with Ice Storm on top of it, Necro ray anything that frees itself and kite it back into the webbed ice storm or shield tank it while your melees rip it to pieces.

I personaly love the high SR of drows, it changes the game from "wait until Wail/FoD/PWK is off timer" to "an actual fight".

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Some of you guys are going to love Driders!

[hockeyrama]

symbol of death, mind fog, other debuff spells there are many ways to reduce saves and levels. You can energy drain as well. The point I was saying before is. When devs make it harder we just need to find the new way to deal with the quests. It all cool and makes it more fun to do.

[Desdemonte]

symbol of death, mind fog, other debuff spells there are many ways to reduce saves and levels. You can energy drain as well. The point I was saying before is. When devs make it harder we just need to find the new way to deal with the quests. It all cool and makes it more fun to do.

I'll give you mind fog, but for Symbol of Death and Energy Drain.... Try again.

We've seen some good ones mentioned- TY. And Thrudh- TY as well. Those are some good ideas.

I'm curious, in order of importance (not including solid fog which is obviously critical) would these spells be put into a Sorc's Spellbook? Would any debuff have a chance of landing from a scroll (I know it's unlikely, but I figured I'd ask, as I can't slot all this stuff in)?

[Chai]

I disagree with the OP of this thread as I did with the OP of the last thread. You have to use DIFFERENT SPELLS. What spells do you use in house D epics? Same ones youll use in the new epics.

I have three viewpoints on this.

1. It is the one trick ponies who get huge DCs in one school of magic who use the same 2 or 3 spells who will have the hardest time. Those people who concentrated on getting DCs in other schools which have spells that do not check SR will find they can adapt well enough.

2. Congrats. When you play your caster you now have the wonderful opportunity to feel like a melee feels when playing with you in 95% of the other epic content to date. Its about **** time they put something in the game that evens the odds. Melee will actually be valuable now.

3. Theres alot more in the underdark than just drow. Most of it doesnt have an SR of over 9000.

**Your neg rep for this post is hilarious. It shows exactly why the system doesnt work. Might as well be a like/dislike button ~facebook instead.

[sirgog]

I disagree with the OP of this thread as I did with the OP of the last thread. You have to use DIFFERENT SPELLS. What spells do you use in house D epics? Same ones youll use in the new epics.

I have three viewpoints on this.

1. It is the one trick ponies who get huge DCs in one school of magic who use the same 2 or 3 spells who will have the hardest time. Those people who concentrated on getting DCs in other schools which have spells that do not check SR will find they can adapt well enough.

2. Congrats. When you play your caster you now have the wonderful opportunity to feel like a melee feels when playing with you in 95% of the other epic content to date. Its about **** time they put something in the game that evens the odds. Melee will actually be valuable now.

3. Theres alot more in the underdark than just drow. Most of it doesnt have an SR of over 9000.

This.

My Web is just OK in there (the Drow Warriors save a lot, the Priestesses and casters do not). It's still worth casting, but Conjuration Archmages are much better at it.

What is good is using AoE damage spells. Acid Rain, etc. Those Drow have at most 3500hp (I think most non-Warriors are under 3000) - very easily burned through indeed.

Find 3-4 of them in a tight pack and throw a Max-Empped Acid Rain. After the spell expires cast another. Bingo, all dead.

[voodoogroves]

This.

My Web is just OK in there (the Drow Warriors save a lot, the Priestesses and casters do not). It's still worth casting, but Conjuration Archmages are much better at it.

What is good is using AoE damage spells. Acid Rain, etc. Those Drow have at most 3500hp (I think most non-Warriors are under 3000) - very easily burned through indeed.

Find 3-4 of them in a tight pack and throw a Max-Empped Acid Rain. After the spell expires cast another. Bingo, all dead.

Again, this is the kind of balance we need. A reason to not be necro spec'd on a wizard? Blasphemy!

Personally, I'm enjoying running my new ranger-monk thing in epics because a DC 48 stunning fist does wonders on a high SR drow. I love that assassinate works when finger can't easily get through SR.

[sweez]

Godh forbid you actually do something other than wail/mass hold on a wiz! Web works just fine in any drow content, what else works great? Intim. Getting enough intim to grab epic trash is trivial on a wizzy, just intim the mobs, turtle up, get free SP back, and let melees have some fun for once.

Or, maybe you could try using prismatic spray scrolls? Non-meta'd prismatic ray/spray spells? *shudder* damage spells?!

This game offers much more in the way of CC than just throwing DC 9000 webs and discoballs around and thinking you're the bee's knees. Be creative.

[ImFour20]

I disagree with the OP of this thread as I did with the OP of the last thread. You have to use DIFFERENT SPELLS. What spells do you use in house D epics? Same ones youll use in the new epics.

I have three viewpoints on this.

1. It is the one trick ponies who get huge DCs in one school of magic who use the same 2 or 3 spells who will have the hardest time. Those people who concentrated on getting DCs in other schools which have spells that do not check SR will find they can adapt well enough.

2. Congrats. When you play your caster you now have the wonderful opportunity to feel like a melee feels when playing with you in 95% of the other epic content to date. Its about **** time they put something in the game that evens the odds. Melee will actually be valuable now.

3. Theres alot more in the underdark than just drow. Most of it doesnt have an SR of over 9000.

**Your neg rep for this post is hilarious. It shows exactly why the system doesnt work. Might as well be a like/dislike button ~facebook instead.

This is very true.

And why is it so important that you can bypass the SR anyway? While you could get lucky if you focus on it(with a high roll). . .maybe they are designed into the game to be unable to be CC'd(in that way).

Yes you can make a personal goal for yourself to make it easier, but that could be as far as it goes. Just because you can target them, doesn't mean you have to be able to CC them

[Impaqt]

SR=45

Are you freaking kidding me?

I saw a thread a while back from someone asking if people are now expected to TR their characters multiple times to have any relevance at end game (once the expansion hits). I saw a lot of people offer sage advice such as not being a one trick pony, learn how to play your class, find alternatives to FoD/Wail/Dancing Ball like a heightened Web....

I find this all laughable.

I spent plenty of time on my 4th life (3 of them wiz) Wizard in the new preview quests seeing nothing but blue shields on drow archers and drow casters waltzing right through my webs.

This toon is *almost* fully geared out, with everything I would need *and more* as a 1st life caster. My Spell Pen is 32. Necro/Enchant DCs at 42.

SR of 45????? The only way a guildy and myself have determined to come close to not burning through the blue bars is to do a 3x Fvs, 3x Wiz ending on an Elf Wiz.

So people aren't expected to have to multi TR their toons to be relevant? I call BS!

This got me wondering- what do the various creatures have for SR through the game, and at Epic. Anybody have a link? What DCs are necessary for different mobs in Epic? Where are we headed?

As far as I can tell, we are headed toward being forced to chug SP pots purchased from the DDO store, on multi-TRd toons that have chugged XP pots from the DDO store, using stat buff pots purchased through the DDO store.

Seeing a trend here?

we have more levels coming (more Spell Penn), and a revamp of the enhancment system. who knows what else we'll see that may aid our spell penn efforts.

or you could always bring a few melees with ya into epic quests....

[Desdemonte]

we have more levels coming (more Spell Penn), and a revamp of the enhancment system. who knows what else we'll see that may aid our spell penn efforts.

or you could always bring a few melees with ya into epic quests....

But but but...

Melees are so 1980s ;P

Seriously though, I am all open ears to suggestions that *work*. The glitterdust and incendiary cloud is an interesting combo. I am really curious as to what people are using on their 1st life caster to dominate sufficently that a wipe doesn't occur. You can tell me to rely on my melee all you want, but the fact of the matter is that they *cannot* kill things fast enough, and need a good dent made by instakills, and taking other mobs out of commision by dancing/webbing them.

Pumping up 1 school to offset Drow SR means hurting yourself elsewhere, to a degree I doubt many people would want to do. I don't see this as a viable option. I forgot to mention the 3 cleric lives... that *was* a part of the build we came up with to bump the Web DCs.

Chai, I don't see how you can call Palemasters and WF Archmages 1 trick ponies. When you get to level 20, you can only choose 1 or 2 lines to specialize in. What would you drop to add a 3rd or 4th line? Quicken and not be able to self heal fast enough? Heighten so stuff doesn't land anyway? What feat selection do you propose? Why add a SF feat if you can't follow it up with a Greater SF? All I see is the fact that being a generalist cripples your ability to do *anything* very well at that level.

For me, the SR is a moot point (but I know it's still ****ing a lot of other people off)- I have left my wizard lives behind and am onto cleric. I was going to do 3 FvS as well before finishing up as Sorc, so I would (hopefully) be able to land necro and CC in the new expansion as a sorc. I guess this revelation at least saves me some time- no need to waste the time on the FvS lives, as I'm sure that although there will be other creatures in the Underdark, I'm guessing they will a pittance compared to the number of drow. Not sure how I'm going to approach it other than nuke the **** out of stuff and hope I kill it before it kills me. I'm not going to be able to swap spells around all the time (like Incediary cloud and glitterdust).

I gotta find that other post. Personally, I don't buy it. I would *love* to run with you awesome casters who have a way to solve everything and learn from you first hand....

[Impaqt]

But but but...

Melees are so 1980s ;P

Seriously though, I am all open ears to suggestions that *work*. The glitterdust and incendiary cloud is an interesting combo. I am really curious as to what people are using on their 1st life caster to dominate sufficently that a wipe doesn't occur. You can tell me to rely on my melee all you want, but the fact of the matter is that they *cannot* kill things fast enough, and need a good dent made by instakills, and taking other mobs out of commision by dancing/webbing them.

Pumping up 1 school to offset Drow SR means hurting yourself elsewhere, to a degree I doubt many people would want to do. I don't see this as a viable option. I forgot to mention the 3 cleric lives... that *was* a part of the build we came up with to bump the Web DCs.

Chai, I don't see how you can call Palemasters and WF Archmages 1 trick ponies. When you get to level 20, you can only choose 1 or 2 lines to specialize in. What would you drop to add a 3rd or 4th line? Quicken and not be able to self heal fast enough? Heighten so stuff doesn't land anyway? What feat selection do you propose? Why add a SF feat if you can't follow it up with a Greater SF? All I see is the fact that being a generalist cripples your ability to do *anything* very well at that level.

For me, the SR is a moot point (but I know it's still ****ing a lot of other people off)- I have left my wizard lives behind and am onto cleric. I was going to do 3 FvS as well before finishing up as Sorc, so I would (hopefully) be able to land necro and CC in the new expansion as a sorc. I guess this revelation at least saves me some time- no need to waste the time on the FvS lives, as I'm sure that although there will be other creatures in the Underdark, I'm guessing they will a pittance compared to the number of drow. Not sure how I'm going to approach it other than nuke the **** out of stuff and hope I kill it before it kills me. I'm not going to be able to swap spells around all the time (like Incediary cloud and glitterdust).

I gotta find that other post. Personally, I don't buy it. I would *love* to run with you awesome casters who have a way to solve everything and learn from you first hand....

I generally dont find melees being all that slow in killing Epic drow. I run quite a bit of Sentinel stuff where we see a few drow here and there. Drop a few webs, let the melees kill. Bribe one to use some Shattermantle weapons.....

Epic Ward stopped ALL instakills for quite some time... you made due with other forms of CC and Direct damage.