Remove Guild Renown Decay

[Tshober]

Or at least find some better alternative way to implement the decay.

The current method or farming for guild renown and then having it decay is poorly implemented and actually alienates many potential DDO players.

I do not understand why a MMO like DDO, that is competing with other MMO's for every available player, would deliberately choose to implement a guild level decay system that, in effect, makes all casual and semi-casual players totally unwelcome in DDO's guilds. It is very alienating to be refused admittance into every well established guild because you only play on weekends or because your play schedule is intermittent. But that is exactly the situation casual players are in with DDO today. Guilds flat out don't want them and will not take them. And it is hard to blame the guild leaders, when the ultimate fault lies in the guild level decay system chosen by DDO. The guild leaders want their guild to continue to level up and the only way that can happen is if they make sure all their active accounts are really, really active - as in logged in every single day getting renown. This makes casual and light gamers feel unwelcome in DDO because they are *literally* unwlecome in every well established guild in DDO. This is a very self-defeating policy that really should be reviewed.

Not only is the renown decay policy self-defeating for DDO as a whole, it is also poorly implemented and poorly thought out. Most of the content of DDO is quests and in quests there are several opportunities to get renown. You get very small amounts of renown (5 to 15 renown) randomly from monster kills and you get much larger renown rewards (50 to 1000 renown) from looting chests and from end-rewards. That was okay when all there was in DDO was quests. But much of the newer DDO content is no longer built on quests. Events like Crystal Cove and, most recently, the Challenges system do not offer anywhere near the opportunity to earn renown that quests offer. There are no chests in this content and no end-reward option where it woud ever make sense to choose a renown reward (if one were even offered). So when you play the newer DDO content (events & challenges) the ONLY renown you generate is the random (5-15) on kills. You never get any opportunity to get the much larger renown rewards that are actually useful. So, if you insist on retaining the horribly self-defeating renown decay system we have now, at the very least stop producing renown-free DDO content so there is at least some chance at getting some decent renown when you play.

I run a large and pretty well established guild on Orien. We have been around for a little over a year. I try very hard not to give in to the pressure to kick out people who don't play almost daily but is is very hard because those who do play daily want to level the guild. Please review the guild renown decay policy, because I really do not feel that it is serving the best interests of DDO the way it works today.


Tshober

[Captain_Wizbang]

/signed.

The entire system needs to be over-hauled.

[madmaxhunter]

As with the 100 other threads (maybe the devs will eventually get what we're screaming).

/signed

It really has to be FIXED before the expansion hits.

[MartinusWyllt]

At the very least something like a 3-day hold on decay after reaching a new level would be nice....along with thresholds that you don't decay below...even if this was just:

at level 75 level 50 is your new minimum GL.

at level 100 level 75 is your new minimum GL.

This could reflect the idea that some groups become so legendary they won't fade from memory for decades if not longer.

[Qzipoun]

/sigh'ned ... again

[jortann]

Maybe we should ask MadFloyd when we get a ... 'LET'S TALK: Guild Renown' thread.


Because the system needs an overhaul.

[amethystdragon]

The OP is very well thought out and written, there is not much anyone can add to it; other than we agree.

I understand that when renown was introduced, that decay was put in to stop very large guilds from just reaching the top and not having to work to stay there. It was also ment to stop someone from getting a guild to a high level and then just booting everyone. However, I think that it is time to review and update the system.

[porq]

I don't know why this topic continually comes up.

I doubt the 'essential' goodies being delivered around the watermark most guilds reach just by playing the game is an accident. It's probably by design. A lot of guilds seem to plateau or grow very slowly beyond that point, but the important thing is the access to the important buffs.

Going the extra mile is getting the last ~35 levels for the convenience of having crafting altars you don't have to visit the Shroud or the Twelve for, and a +1-2% bump on the xp shrine.

Please review the guild renown decay policy, because I really do not feel that it is serving the best interests of DDO the way it works today.

I think it does. What's the end game on leveling a guild anyways, ship buffs? That's what most people are after, and reaching the mid-60s delivers on that.

[Bloodyfury]

/signed
Anyway, if the only point of decay was from preventing large guilds from leveling too fast, this is a bit pointless... there's absolutely NOTHING worth it once you hit the levels 80 +(except boats on 80 and 85). And when I mean nothing, it's nothing...

That would also prevents us from seeing the same guild attain the level 70 on my server for like the 60-70th times since the last 6 months! lmao They seems to have reach a deadend where they have a critical numbers of members versu what is required, not enough to make it up past 70 for good and still too large so the decay brings them down as soon as they hit 70. They are kinda the running gag now...lol

[Tshober]

I don't know why this topic continually comes up.

I doubt the 'essential' goodies being delivered around the watermark most guilds reach just by playing the game is an accident. It's probably by design. A lot of guilds seem to plateau or grow very slowly beyond that point, but the important thing is the access to the important buffs.

Going the extra mile is getting the last ~35 levels for the convenience of having crafting altars you don't have to visit the Shroud or the Twelve for, and a +1-2% bump on the xp shrine.



I think it does. What's the end game on leveling a guild anyways, ship buffs? That's what most people are after, and reaching the mid-60s delivers on that.

The problem is that in the current environment, casual players are totally unwelcome in EVERY well established guild. Has nothing to do with what's available on the ships. Has everything to do with alienating a whole set of players from DDO entirely.

[Edstienkin]

I have a grand idea...
Lets just give everyone a permanent +2 stat buffs, +2% xp buff, and all the other buffs that a guild lvl 100 could have, and then do away with renown entirely. Why should people have to work for buffs? Just give an across the board buffing to every char in game.

/not signed

ps: "totally unwelcome in EVERY well established guild"
And what is wrong with that? Do casual players deserve to be in a high lvl guild? If someone doesn't contribute, why do you think they deserve the benefits? You can always give a ship invite to these casuals.

[Thrudh]

How about if they start decay at level 50 or 60 guild? No decay before that.

62 is really all you need... you get a large enough ship and can get all the good buffs.

70 is nice for large guild slot items

Anything past that is very minor.

[MysticElaine]

I agree. I have a small guild as in only 6 accounts. Some ppl have not played in a long while, while others have played every day, and it is hard for me to find ppl that want to join who play everday because not everyone in my guild does or has toons that are at same lvl as them. On the flip side, I don't want to invite ppl that don't play a lot as I don't want to increase the number of accounts and thus decay when it is so hard for us to keep up with the decay as it is. I would feel more like adding ppl who ask for a guild after running with them a few times even if they only play on the weekends if the decay wasn't so bad. Right now though, I can't accept any more casuals until I get more 24/7 ppl.

ps: "totally unwelcome in EVERY well established guild"
And what is wrong with that? Do casual players deserve to be in a high lvl guild? If someone doesn't contribute, why do you think they deserve the benefits? You can always give a ship invite to these casuals.

Not everyone likes to PUG, and therefore, not able to get ship invites. Why should casual players who like to solo not be allowed to have access to ship buffs? AND they DO contribute to the guild, maybe not as much as a person who plays everday, but they still do when they play.

[Tshober]

I have a grand idea...

ps: "totally unwelcome in EVERY well established guild"
And what is wrong with that? Do casual players deserve to be in a high lvl guild? If someone doesn't contribute, why do you think they deserve the benefits? You can always give a ship invite to these casuals.

What's wrong with that is DDO is competing with other MMO's for those casual players. Will they come play DDO where they are unwelcome in all decent guilds? Or will they go play some other MMO where many of the guilds don't care if they are casual or not? You may not care about that choice, but Turbine definitely SHOULD care about it.

[Bogenbroom]

I agree that the entire renown system needs to be reviewed. I have little to no problem with the decay factor, my beef is with the perks. I fall squarely into the camp that thinks ship buffs are a very, very bad idea. I believe things like the crafting alters, mailboxes and other convenience items are much more appropriate than things which give actual combat advantages.

[Jay203]

make the buffs cost renown to use and remove decay altogether :P

[Edstienkin]

make the buffs cost renown to use and remove decay altogether :P

Now THAT is something I could get behind.
/Totally signed to this idea.

[Tshober]

make the buffs cost renown to use and remove decay altogether :P

If this were implemented well, I would like it as well. My additional requirement is that the cost would have to come from the buffing character's individual renown stockpile, rather than from the guild's total stockpile. If it came from the guild's stockpile, then it would have the same effect as what we have today, and casual players would still be unwelcome in all well established guilds. But if it came from each individual character's renown earned, then there would be no objection to letting in causal players.

[Jay203]

If this were implemented well, I would like it as well. My additional requirement is that the cost would have to come from the buffing character's individual renown stockpile, rather than from the guild's total stockpile. If it came from the guild's stockpile, then it would have the same effect as what we have today, and casual players would still be unwelcome in all well established guilds. But if it came from each individual character's renown earned, then there would be no objection to letting in causal players.

guildless ppl need not ask for ship buffs

[Tshober]

How about if they start decay at level 50 or 60 guild? No decay before that.

62 is really all you need... you get a large enough ship and can get all the good buffs.

70 is nice for large guild slot items

Anything past that is very minor.

All that you say here is true. But it does not address the main problem. Right now, as we are today, casual players are unwelcome in all well established guilds. Raising the level at which decay starts does nothing at all to change that. All guild leaders will still want their guild to continue to level up and so will their active guild members. The only way that can happen is if they kick out casual players and limit membership strictly to very active players. The level at which that occurs is irrelevent. If there is a higher level, human nature takes over and everyone wants it, regardless of how minor the benefit might be. My guild IS level 61 and I can assure you most emphatically that many members are not satisfied with that. As I said, I try very hard to resist the pressure to kick out casual players but is it NOT easy. DDO is not a friendly place for casual players when compared to many other MMO's, and IMO this is one of the main reasons.