Drow SS monk build advice needed.

[Trasak]

I have started working on a new character and wanted to do something a little less common but still raid viable, once I get around to buying a pack that has a raid. I had wanted to make a halfling monk ninja assasin but it seemed a little too weak and SA dependant. Due to unlocking Drow on my main server I took a look and low and behold drow have ratial enhancements to short swords which should perform over all better for fewer AP than halfling would require.

The goal of the build is being a full trap monkey, nearly top tier damage, high AC and saves to make up for low con. Secondary bonus and posibly completely worthless I am tapping into is Shuriken throwing. With haste buff and rapid shot and quick draw and shuriken expertise, rogue haste, and 10k the metal should fly fast and ratial +2 make it more damage than a throwing axe but the real kicker is 8d6+9 SA until it turns to me anyway. The thought being that I would have a set of different types for DR reasons.

I had planed on using CC short swords but I saw someone recomending that you have on in your offhand and a better one main hand for higher DPS. Again the SA will dwarf any weapon damage even on 50% fort mobs.

Without further ado

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Asskicker 
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
(1 Fighter \ 12 Monk \ 7 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 275
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 17
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         10                    12
Wisdom               14                    17
Charisma             10                    12

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    25
Bluff                 0                     3
Concentration         1                    27
Diplomacy             0                     1
Disable Device        4                    24
Haggle                0                     1
Heal                  2                     3
Hide                  3                    12
Intimidate            0                     1
Jump                  6                    12
Listen                2                     5
Move Silently         7                    16
Open Lock             7                     8
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                4                    26
Spot                  6                    18
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                4                     7
Use Magic Device      4                    24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw


Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Rapid Shot


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise III
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Unbalancing Strike
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

Please poke and prod this build for noob mistakes and planing incansistancies. Last note sorry for the spelling mistakes.

[Masadique]

Drop wis and up con. Con is not a dump stat.

High AC and saves do not make up for low HP. They really and truly help, but you will take damage at some point. Having HP means when you take damage you don't die. It really is that simply. A 14 con is pretty much a necessity.

I would also advise that you look at Halfling again. The reason I say this is that they will be getting the assassin line as a Pre in the expansion.


Con is just not a dump stat.

[Trasak]

Will 20 Hp in the end really be worth loosing 2 AC +2 will and +2 to Wis DCs? Due to the -2 con for being Drow I would need to drop wis from 14 to 10 to raise con from 12 to 14. If I had the 4 extra points from a second TR I would totally put them into con without question, would also be building a Shinto Void Helf pure if it were my second TR.

As for the halfling enhancement option being assasin I imagine it would be comparable to the drow getting a tempest enhancement option as rummored. Halfling would also knock out the shuriken partial which I guess would open up several feats for repeated toughness but I don't like that as much.

[GlorifyQuC]

Don't make a drow, they're bad.

Con should be raised to at least 14, 16 is preferable.

Wisdom of 14 is pretty useless, you won't hit DCs with it reliably without a stunning wrap and with a stunning wraps you'll hit them anyways.

[ayondie]

Let Me Preface This by saying it seems like a lot of info and a can be intimidating but i only used +2 tomes which are easily attainable either by grinding or just buying a supreme tome. In Some of the Calcs i assumed madstone boots. While not so easily attainable the build is palyable and well so without them. It just makes the build better as does gear for anything lol. I also factored in the Minos Legens or any item with toughness on it and i also assumed you could get ahold of GFL which is also easy. The build i wrote up is end game and is very much viable and i hope you enjoy playing it.

Since you want drow i will design a build based on this but i would HIGHLY advice staying unarmed. With 12 levels of monk you will be hitting 2d6 with your fists with monk speed. A short sword even with drow bonuses will only be 1d6 +2. As far as im concerned 2d6 is a lot better than 1d6+2. As noted below i would play in ocean stance and use haste pots

Now as for the build I would go:

28pt:

Str: 14 +5 levels +2 tome +2 ship +3 exc. + 6 item -2 stance = 30 (+10)
Dex: 15 +2 tome +6 item + 2 ship = 25 (+7)
Con: 14 +2 tome +6 item +2 ship = 24 (+7)
int: 8 again +2 tome for skills isnt needed as rogue and monk both give lots of skill points. But helps. = 10
Wis: 15 +2 tome +2 ship +3 exc. ring + 6 item +4 stance = 32 (+11)
Cha: 8

Personally if you can get the 1000 favor for veteran i would make a 32 pt monk must more viable:

Str: 14 levels
Dex: 15
Con: 14
int: 10
Wis: 16
Cha: 8

Now as far as feats go i would pass weapon finesse up. Really its only gonna be a 1 pt difference between str and dex not enough for me to consider weapon finesse:

Feats: 11 total
Monk Bonus:3
Regular:7
Fighter Bonus: 1

1)TWF
2FB)P.A.
3MB)Toughness
3)Weapon Focus: Bludgeon
4MB)Dodge
6)Stunning Fist
8MB)Toughness
9)ITWF
12)possibly Hamstring ( Not Sure if Works on Unarmed Else More Toughness)
15)GTWF
18)IC: Bludgeon


HP:
140 Levels (Con Mod)
20 Char Creation
96 monk
42 rogue
10 Ftr
30 GFL
20 Toughness Item
45 Shroud HP Item
44 Toughness x2
10 Argo Favor
20 Racial Toughness Enhancement
20 Patient Tortoise IV
20 Rage +2 Con
= 507 ( Im Sure i missed a few things)
40 Single Madstone
40 Double Madstone
=587 Buffed

Stunning Fist DC: 10 + Half Char Level + Wis Mod + Stunning Item
10+ 10 + 11 + 10 wraps= 41 excellent DC in my opinion and if you get around to challenges find the epic spare hand to give you 5 more DC = 46

Wis Bonus: 15 + 4 stance +2 ship +2 tome + 6 item + 3 excep (ToD ring) = 32 (+11)

DPS Calculations:

I would play this toon is Grandmaster Ocean Stance and Stun Stun Stun
Assuming 14 base +6 item +2 tome +2 ship - 2 stance +3 ToD ring +5 Levels = 30 (+10)

Short Sword +5 shock of pg (ease of calc.)
1d6 (3av.) +2 drow +5 mod + 10 str + 3 shocking +3 pg +2d20 water IV = 45
Sneak 5d6 rogue levels + 3d6 Ninja Spy = 8d6 av (3*8) = 24
Total of 70 damage

Unarmed: +5 shocking of stunning 10
2d6 + 5 mod +10 str +2d20 water IV attack = 41
Sneak: 24 damage
Total: 65 damage
Stunning Fist +50% damage for being helpless 65 + (65/2)= 32= 65+32 = 97 damage
Touch of Death: 500 damage

So Most of The Time your dps will always be higher with 2d6 unarmed versus 1d6 shortswrd

[wax_on_wax_off]

Handwraps have:
+9-10% attack speed
0 AB penalty (compared to -2 or -4)
Full offhand strength modifier (compared to half)
Versatile epic options (compared to history)
Various ways to break different DR (compared to history)
'nuff said.

Honestly, even with 1 level of monk the only weapon that can compete (with decent gear) with handwraps is Khopesh and when you include stunning fist and other factors handwraps are just so much cooler.

[ulticleo]

your build is fine. not optimal, not min-maxed, but fine.

20 hp at end game won't matter, IF you make sure to get hp elsewhere (gfl/sfl, toughness, +con items, etc). If you plan to use 10k stars, you want you wis as high as possible. there is a HUGE difference between 20 and 30 wis. There is a noticeable increase to dps even from 4 points of wis.

yes, HW would do more damage. no, you're not top tier dps, AC or anything else. nonetheless, this is viable build if you play it right

having said that, I would drop the shuriken route. you'll have hard time hitting with low dex, you don't have the feats to include brutal throw or ips, and you need a pretty high wis to make 10k stars worthwhile. I would throw in stunning in stunning fists for when you need it, and maybe an extra toughness if you can't come up with something better.

[Trasak]

Would two Epic Envenomed Blades or one Envenomed and one Epic tier 3 Cutthroats Smallblade from CC make up for not using hand wraps after the AP spent on drow enhancements? Or would I be running into DR problems left and right? Again most of the damage from this build comes from critting more and SA with the assumption that on non critable no SA fights I would be switching to a pair of DR beating HWs.

I may play with the Shuriken while leveling as I solo mostly then dump the feats for toughness when I hit 20 for epic instances.

Also of note, at the speed I level the expansion might be released even before I hit level 15 so it is possible that Stunning fist and ToD will work with short swords as Eladrin alluded that they may eventually a year or so ago. I imagin the reason we have seen next to no enhancement changes in the last year is due to the revamp they have been working on for the entire system. But standard Turbine policy appears to be release it a little at a time tied to some purchase being the next best thing so who knows.

[Xyfiel]

Handwraps have:
+9-10% attack speed
0 AB penalty (compared to -2 or -4)
Full offhand strength modifier (compared to half)
Versatile epic options (compared to history)
Various ways to break different DR (compared to history)
'nuff said.

Honestly, even with 1 level of monk the only weapon that can compete (with decent gear) with handwraps is Khopesh and when you include stunning fist and other factors handwraps are just so much cooler.

Drow Tempest is likely to remove most of those penalties, possibly even gaining +2 hit/damage from ss enhancements. Also, 15-20x3 makes up for a lot. Nothing says you can't be ss specced and still use stunning fist either.

[waterboytkd]

Just want to point out something: a couple people mentioned halflings getting Assassin PrE, or Drow getting Tempest PrE.

Remember that none of that is confirmed. The devs mentioned that at the very beginning of the enhancement revamp discussion, when they also mentioned dwarves would get Stalward Defender. However, in the latest bits of spoiler from MadFloyd, it was revealed that dwarves are getting Dwarven Defender. To me, that says there is a fair chance that they scrapped the idea of races getting a class PrE, and will instead get unique racial PrEs.

To the OP, what does 1 fighter get you? And why 12 monk? 6 monk will get you shortswords as monk weapons. 6 more monk levels does get you 2d6 SA + Abundant step, but is that all you're going for (however, Abundant Step IS really badass)? You might be better off with a 14 rogue/6 monk split if you really want more SA with monk stuff.

If you're not attached to the SA build, you could always go 12 fighter/6 monk/2 XXX split, go Kensai, and focus on the tactic feats (like Stunning Blow and Trip).

As for your race, Drow is mostly a flavor choice. It MIGHT be better once the enhancement revamp comes (if they extend the racial weapon enhancements AND make them much cheaper), but right now, 12 AP for +2 attack and damage is just not worth it. Plus, it forces you to put points in Int and Cha, which is...meh.

If it were me, I'd go Half-elf. Why? Because I'm a huge sucker for the cleric dilly, as it gives you some really good self-healing that's not dependent on swapping out gear to get your UMD really high.

But I do want to point out one last thing: the original idea is a flavor build all the way. Unarmed (with handwraps) would be better DPS by a fairly significant margin, and if you went with weapons, there are Khopeshes, Scimitars, and Rapiers that would all be better options. The drow enhancements to SS do not really make up the difference, and as has been mentioned, drow is a pretty weak race, so taking it just for SS is taking a sub-optimal option to make better use of another sub-optimal option, but having everything still be sub-optimal. Not saying you can't be adequate in most content, but you won't be close to optimal, and epics would probably be out of reach.

[voodoogroves]

IF, and I mean *If* you really want a drow monk/rogue split using Short Swords, i'd really suggest something more like this:

(and before you read it, let's all recognize that we're in the realm of kinda flavor here and not super optimized - we left that a while back ... )


Drow Monk 6 (ninja) / Rogue 13 (acrobat) / Fighter 1

Monk feats: Toughness, Dodge ... something (not PA, you don't have the build points for it)
Fighter feat: Quickdraw
Normal feats: TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Finesse, Improved Crit Pierce, Improved Crit Slash ... then CHOICE (Hamstring, Combat Expertise, Mobility, Rapid Shot, etc.)
Rogue special feats: Opportunist, Improved Evasion

Max DEX, plus all levels
Start INT at 16 if you can - this is enough to somewhat easily get a 30 INT for your Epic Midnight Greetings.
Minimally a 12 CON

With 28 point drow I think that leaves you with ... nothing else
DEX 20 (16 points)
CON 12 (6 points)
INT 16 (6 points)

I'd probably take rogue first, then cram in monk as fast as I could, adding in Rogue levels if I needed the skills at certain points .... maybe Rogue 1 / Monk 1-3 / Rogue 2 / Monk 4-6 / then the rest


Primary Weapons - Treason, Epic Midnight Greetings, Envenomed Blade (epic and non) ... all adding DEX to damage.


Your DEX could reasonably be ...

20 (base) + 5 levels + 2 race AP + 3 rogue AM + 2 monk stance + 7 buccaneer ring + 3 exceptional + 2 ship + 2 tome = 46 bursting with Showtime (acrobat) for 4 more, yugo pots, house D pots ...

Your INT could reasonably be ...

16 (base) + 6 item + 3 exceptional + 2 tome + 2 boat = 29 ... need a +3 tome or house D pots (I wouldn't do yugo) to consistently hit 30 for your eMGs to be +10 weapons

Your CON could reasonably be ...

12 (base) + 2 tome + 6 item + 2 exceptional +2 boat = 24 = +7 (raging or madstoning for more)

HP could reasonably be ...

20 heroic + 48 monk + 10 fighter + 96 rogue + 140 con + 20 toughness item + 10 fighter toughness + 10 tortoise + 45 shroud HP item + 30 GFL + 10 agents of argo + 22 toughness feat - 20 wind stance = 441 ... raging or madstoning higher, Superior False Life, swap out of wind stance (water or fire for +20, earth for +40)

.... you will likely be sub-400 when you cap, but you could push 500 when you're bopping about the raiding circuit easily, all with great saves and improved evasion.

[Trasak]

Definately looking like I will recieve at least some friction with this "fun" build so i imagine that I will scrap the short sword idea and the shurikans to get three more toughness feats and just survive out till I have the tokens for my True Res and start over as a 34 point half-elf cleric dil dark monk and go void for some true epic grinding. Kind of a bummer but some times the flavor is bad rather than good.

[unbongwah]

Drow Monk 6 (ninja) / Rogue 13 (acrobat) / Fighter 1

I prefer this level split for a short-sword (or staff) Ninja as well. The more monk levels you have, the less sense it makes to use anything other than handwraps. Bad enough you miss out on +10% attack speed, Stunning Fist, etc.; but not being specced for ToD as well seems almost criminal. At least with more rogue lvls, you're getting a lot more SA DPS and you can pretend to yourself it makes up for your "gimpy" weapon choice.

[SensaiRyu]

[Snip]
Since you want drow i will design a build based on this but i would HIGHLY advice staying unarmed. With 12 levels of monk you will be hitting 2d6 with your fists with monk speed. A short sword even with drow bonuses will only be 1d6 +2. As far as im concerned 2d6 is a lot better than 1d6+2. [Snip]

I tried doing this, dark monk, short swords, HElf with both rogue dillys. Not worth it. My dmg was much better without the swords. I kept the swords for DR beaters. Then I LR'd to light and never looked back.

As for Drow, I have a Drow SD fighter (18/2monk) that has a somewhere in the 700's hp in stance - TWF Khop build. Nice fun build and I get to run a Drow. Specialty build, fun alt to play. Originally a kensai with monk splash, but changed the enhancements to see how much more hp I could get out of a Drow. I like the hp in SD stance and the crits from kensai. One GS item - min II.

Can't TOD with a sword, can use other monk attacks with swords. Swapping back and forth from swords/wraps is a pain.

Voodoogroves' build looks like a good alternative.

I think you'll have problems in epic content. I did as a first life Drow pure monk.

[voodoogroves]

Voodoogroves' build looks like a good alternative.

TY ... TY

I think you'll have problems in epic content. I did as a first life Drow pure monk.

Once he hits his gear, I don't think he'll have too much trouble.

Of course, how the enhancements play out (Tempest / Assassin) for the races could change your direction. If Halflings do indeed get Assassin and it is possible to do Acrobat 1 / Ninja 1 / Assassin 3 ... well ... I'd roll with a halfling. Tempest is also appealing, but that depends on what all you get. Maybe not on a DEX build.