Auto-grouping

[Ivan_Milic]

I pug all the time so I guess this is good for me

[t0r012]

first:
for random pugger just looking to get a group fast auto match awesome. no need to worry about LFM scanning and the like.

second:
bonuses. nifty. incentive for "good" players to use new mechanic.

third:
a bonus you choose not to accept is not a penalty.
don't use autogroup and your bonus is you can take people you know and be almost guaranteeing a completion, that is your bonus.
Choose to not farm and use an eSoS or greensteel, don't whine that you are getting a "penalty" for your choice.

fourth:
Mabar grouping is not comparable, IMO.
Mabar grouping sucks cause there is no easy communication method for a 16 person instance. if they just trimmed it to a 12 person instance and curt the alters /switches to 3 each and put you in a raid group with communication , mabar would be better by far.

[tinyelvis]

I personally see auto grouping as a feature that will fall in with other game features like PvP challenges and such. In other words, it wont get used unless it is forced on the community. In which case, the most popular player action will then be "dismiss from party" button. I cant believe any sane person would implement forced auto grouping. How would people group with friends?

So, again. This is really a waste of resources IMO. It wont get used and will die on the vine.

[JollySwagMan]

I haven't given this much thought really...though thinking about it, it would be nice to have some tweaks to how LFG works. I have not used this feature much myself, but have noticed that the overhead icon (the 'noob bat signal of DDO' as some have quipped ) sometimes never disappearing even if the player joins a party, unchecks the LFG box, or even goes Anonymous.

Stuff I'd like:
When joining a party, an automatic recap text message of the dungeon name and difficulty as the first thing a player sees in the party chat panel.

Hit the LFG button on a quest journal entry, and the player joins a list of others who have pressed the button for that quest. Let this list be visible to players as potential invites when creating a party on the LFM panel when they select a quest.

Allow up to 3/5 quest picks...as long as the recap text is implemented.

Allow players to withdraw their LFG status for a particular quest. Also allow players to withdraw their join requests to groups on LFM panel. Allow players to choose between whether they just want to be listed as LFG for a quest, or to actually use the auto-group function.

[Cyr]

So according to Phax this will be an option which will not remove the old goruping dynamics with no incentives applied to it.

If it just kind of sits there without mucking with our normal methods of grouping unlike the LOTRO junk code then /shrug.

[eonfreon]

So according to Phax this will be an option which will not remove the old goruping dynamics with no incentives applied to it.

If it just kind of sits there without mucking with our normal methods of grouping unlike the LOTRO junk code then /shrug.

Pretty much how I feel. However, we'll see eventually how they do it. Turbine always seems to muck things up ever-so-slightly.

Just like Dungeon Scaling wasn't supposed to apply to Elite.

Or Grazing Hits would allow Turbine to keep AC relevent.

Something tells me that once the system is in place and if few people actually use it, that Turbine won'tbe able to resist mucking about with it in their rush to "improve our gaming experiences".

Cynical? Yep, but with cause.

[Gremmlynn]

I personally see auto grouping as a feature that will fall in with other game features like PvP challenges and such. In other words, it wont get used unless it is forced on the community. In which case, the most popular player action will then be "dismiss from party" button. I cant believe any sane person would implement forced auto grouping. How would people group with friends?

So, again. This is really a waste of resources IMO. It wont get used and will die on the vine.

Actually I see this being used quite a bit by newer players as it alleviates the apprehension of posting an LFM for a quest they don't know well, if at all. Great for khorthos and the harbor while continually being used frequently right up through the house quests. Also for s/r/e's throughout the game if it autofills when players leave as it would take away the need to keep updating and administering that "come and go as you please" LFM.

[DarkAlchemist]

As long as there are zero bonuses or penalties associated with using or not using an auto grouping feature I would be fine with it being added as an additional option.

However, in DDO's other game which uses this LOTRO they made normal grouping less rewarding and put bonuses on the auto grouping side of things. This made for one of the worst designed systems in the game and frankly an abomination.

That sort of junk has no place in DDO and would likely directly lose Turbine customers.

I can not say how hated that system is in LOTRO and LOTRO had a barely functional grouping system to begin with where DDO has a great LFM system that works pretty dang well in comparision.

Exactly, and why I had to warn the players here because the system over there I kept telling people about in DDO and saying I don't want to see it over here but I bet we do and look what was announced.

[DarkAlchemist]

These new grouping options will be in addition to the existing DDO grouping mechanics/LFM.

If you don't want to use the new system, there is no requirement to do so, and no bonuses attached to it.

It's a solution that is very DDO specific and integrated into the way DDO party/LFM mechanics already work.

I'll talk with Glin about getting more info about the system to you guys soon. I just want to tamper the Doo0000m!!! .

We shall see but lets not forget that the other side of Turbine forced it on their players so I wouldn't put it past this side in doing so either. Even if not initially.

Why add something that doesn't really add anything to the game that isn't really already here?

This 'addition' has me asking why?

[Ungood]

As long as I can still group with my friends and family in game, bring whatever else may come. (although a nice bonus would be appreciated )

[Elaril]

These new grouping options will be in addition to the existing DDO grouping mechanics/LFM.

If you don't want to use the new system, there is no requirement to do so, and no bonuses attached to it.

It's a solution that is very DDO specific and integrated into the way DDO party/LFM mechanics already work.

I'll talk with Glin about getting more info about the system to you guys soon. I just want to tamper the Doo0000m!!! .

That is good news. DDO has the best lfm system out of any mmo I have played. To tamper with it, as I am certain you know, would be folly.

[Missing_Minds]

These new grouping options will be in addition to the existing DDO grouping mechanics/LFM.

If you don't want to use the new system, there is no requirement to do so, and no bonuses attached to it.

It's a solution that is very DDO specific and integrated into the way DDO party/LFM mechanics already work.

I'll talk with Glin about getting more info about the system to you guys soon. I just want to tamper the Doo0000m!!! .

But we like the "Doo0000m!!!".

you know... I wonder how much, depending on the implementation, it is going to tick off lotro players if the mechanic is better.

[Beethoven]

If it needs incentive, then it wasn't something needed in the first place.

That's true, but only from a very limited perspective. Now, assuming a player who cannot solo a quest or has enough (experienced) friends to regularly group with then auto-grouping would not need an additional incentive.

However, from the perspective of a "vet" there needs to be some perspective to make it worth it. Let's recap the advantages of not relying on a random pug:

* faster quest completion. No mucking around/wasting time in the quest. No pointless waiting in front of the quest.
* more reliable completion. You are the only one in the group, less chance for someone doing something silly that messes something up.
* no drama and arguments (ie: people whining you didn't wait for a hjealer or the quest cannot be done without a "rouge" and you are a silly noob for thinking it could be, etc.)
* no angry tells because you filled and auto-declined someone (or choose to not accept someones request)
* chance for more XP; the more players are in the quest the higher chance someone is going to bite it, doubly so if you have new or casual players with you.

You arrive at a point were you can solo quests on elite there is very little incentive to group with anyone outside your circle of friends. In fact, it seems there is a lot of incentive to not group with /random/ pugs.

The other side of the equation? Players having to cope with the idea there may be some trivial bonus in the game they may not get all the time? You could use the same exact argument that right now the game forces people to only group with friends or not at all due to the Flawless Victory bonus and does not allow for vets to group with new (or casual players). You unlikely to get your Flawless Victory bonus with random pugs. So obviously joining them is not even remotely possible.

So, personally I think some incentive (along the line of 20%) wouldn't even hurt to offset the 10% you are unlikely to get (Flawless Victory) and the extra time it takes if members of your group start mucking around for for good reason.

[eonfreon]

That's true, but only from a very limited perspective. Now, assuming a player who cannot solo a quest or has enough (experienced) friends to regularly group with then auto-grouping would not need an additional incentive.

However, from the perspective of a "vet" there needs to be some perspective to make it worth it. Let's recap the advantages of not relying on a random pug:

* faster quest completion. No mucking around/wasting time in the quest. No pointless waiting in front of the quest.
* more reliable completion. You are the only one in the group, less chance for someone doing something silly that messes something up.
* no drama and arguments (ie: people whining you didn't wait for a hjealer or the quest cannot be done without a "rouge" and you are a silly noob for thinking it could be, etc.)
* no angry tells because you filled and auto-declined someone (or choose to not accept someones request)
* chance for more XP; the more players are in the quest the higher chance someone is going to bite it, doubly so if you have new or casual players with you.

You arrive at a point were you can solo quests on elite there is very little incentive to group with anyone outside your circle of friends. In fact, it seems there is a lot of incentive to not group with /random/ pugs.

The other side of the equation? Players having to cope with the idea there may be some trivial bonus in the game they may not get all the time? You could use the same exact argument that right now the game forces people to only group with friends or not at all due to the Flawless Victory bonus and does not allow for vets to group with new (or casual players). You unlikely to get your Flawless Victory bonus with random pugs. So obviously joining them is not even remotely possible.

So, personally I think some incentive (along the line of 20%) wouldn't even hurt to offset the 10% you are unlikely to get (Flawless Victory) and the extra time it takes if members of your group start mucking around for for good reason.

Right, there doesn't need an incentive for new players to use the system. The incentive would need to be placed to get Vets to join in. And do you really think grouping a new player with a vet whose only desire to do this grouping in the first place is an xp bonus is a good idea?

Personally, I don't. I think it'll just leave new players running behind zerging vets. And if the new player dies because of the vet's zerging, it'll be offset by the "bonus", so no down side to just ignoring the new player at all.

Luckily, Phax assures us that it'll just be an addition to the LFM system and not get any incentives.

To me, that's good, and the way it should be.

I can tell you that the Instance Finder in LoTRO doesn't really help match up new and vet players. It's easily exploited to get the bonuses without actually having any new players in the group. As long as you're willing to do a random instance from a list of preferences.

It is not a good system over there and I hope it doesn't come here in any form resembling what's there.

[Silverleafeon]

These new grouping options will be in addition to the existing DDO grouping mechanics/LFM.

If you don't want to use the new system, there is no requirement to do so, and no bonuses attached to it.

It's a solution that is very DDO specific and integrated into the way DDO party/LFM mechanics already work.

I'll talk with Glin about getting more info about the system to you guys soon. I just want to tamper the Doo0000m!!! .

Sounds interesting.

Would it be possible to apply for multiple quests?

Such as Elite for Temple of Vol OR Elite for Fleshmakers OR Elite for Ghost of Perdition OR a level 16 Kobold Island Challange?

Hoping to get into one of what one needs?

...

[Silverleafeon]

Sounds like a good idea as long as it is in addition to the present LFM system.

Running something easy and just want to start fast? Use the new system. First five others and start.

Running something more challenging* and want to put together a more carefully chosen group? Use the present system, and go out of your way to get exactly one bard, a trapsmithing-capable toon and a divine plus whatever mix of DPS/CC/extra healing you think is optimal for the quest.



*- 'Challenging' means different things to different people. Some people want their idea of a 'perfect' group composition for 11-14 Normal Offering of Blood. Others might not bother for anything easier than 14-17 elite In the Flesh or 6-star attempts at the tougher challenges.

Nods solemnly and tries to look wise (but remembers Fawngate dumped wisdom on this life...)

[Deathdefy]

Sounds interesting.

Would it be possible to apply for multiple quests?

Such as Elite for Temple of Vol OR Elite for Fleshmakers OR Elite for Ghost of Perdition OR a level 16 Kobold Island Challange?

Hoping to get into one of what one needs?

...

I honestly hope it's like WoW's grouping system which allows this. It also allows cross-server grouping (but I assume that would have been up in lights if it were coming to DDO).

In WoW, you nominate up to 5 dungeons/raids you are willing to join, and the role you are willing to play in them - ticking boxes for one or more of: tank, healer and dps. You also nominate whether or not you are happy to lead the group. Then you play the waiting game, as your group of e.g. exactly 3 dps, 1 tank and 1 healer for a 5 person dungeon is formed.

Such prescriptive party make-up and role definition obviously has serious difficulties translating to DDO.

Genuinely curious to see what they have come up with.

[KillEveryone]

fourth:
Mabar grouping is not comparable, IMO.
Mabar grouping sucks cause there is no easy communication method for a 16 person instance. if they just trimmed it to a 12 person instance and curt the alters /switches to 3 each and put you in a raid group with communication , mabar would be better by far.

Mabar may or may not be comparable. We don't know yet. Thankfully the system isn't going to be mandatory to use.

I did not like Mabar grouping.

You had communication in Mabar. It wasn't any different than having to read party chat when someone in your group didn't have a mic. You just had to read on a different panel.

Mabar grouping sucked because you got stuck in a instance that didn't include your entire party because part of it was in a different instance. You got stuck with a random assortment of players that may or may not have been people you could trust to do their job, may or may not have been guildies/family/friends you wanted to run with, people that may or may not suck as a person(some people are just tools,) people that may or may not be capable of following a few instructions.

[red_cardinal]

tl;dr. I'd rather have interserver grouping.

Create a pug with players from other servers.
Long live lag monster!

[Rumbaar]

It's not like you lot will do anything about it. Remember when 1d6 moved to 1 - 6 all player base was up in arms. Whatever happened to that rage and whatever happened to the dev that said it was a mistake ...

Despite all my rage, I'm still just a rat in a cage ...