What will be the xp required to level to 20 when all is said and done

[DarkAlchemist]

Sarcasm?


Between Necro2 and VoN, levels 10-13 go by in like 20 minutes.

Nope, as everyone I know who has TR'd says level 14 is the B level because level 12 has all of 9 quests and 2 raids (one is RI that no one does so lets not even count that one). Effectively you get stuck on 14. It just seems that 12-15, to me at least, is missing quests but that could be solved with a few new packs for the mid level ranges.

[Inferno346]

Nope, as everyone I know who has TR'd says level 14 is the B level because level 12 has all of 9 quests and 2 raids (one is RI that no one does so lets not even count that one). Effectively you get stuck on 14. It just seems that 12-15, to me at least, is missing quests but that could be solved with a few new packs for the mid level ranges.

This is absolutely not true for me... I'd paste in my quest list for those levels but it's a bit off-topic. If anything, levels 4-5 are the most awkward for me.

One of the big tricks to TRing quickly is to push XP forward as much as possible: use the level 9 farms to take out levels 11-12 while blue-barring 10-11; use the level 11-12 quests to take out 14 while 13; use wizking to knock out most of 15 while 14; maze of madness and trial by fire do most of 16 while 15.

[azrael4h]

Nope, as everyone I know who has TR'd says level 14 is the B level because level 12 has all of 9 quests and 2 raids (one is RI that no one does so lets not even count that one). Effectively you get stuck on 14. It just seems that 12-15, to me at least, is missing quests but that could be solved with a few new packs for the mid level ranges.

14 has been going by very fast for my and a guildy who TRed with me. She's running Artificer, me Fighter. She just hit 15 tonight, 14 the other night, and I hit 16, 15 the other night. 14 last week. The only things we've farmed have been helping another guildy farm Lordsmarch for the Sora Kell set, and Wiz King for the Rune Arm that is supposed to be there but was never actually added to the loot tables. Like everything else in the Desert pack.

For the most part, we have been doing Hard once and then moving on. The exceptions are going to be Gianthold quests, which we've been running on elite once we got a guildy who could open for us, as these are really fun on elite, and we all want the Argo favor. Unfortunately, that meant I got to do the Crucible swim, for only the second time ever and the first time in about a year and a half. On a Fighter with no evasion at all. Did alright until I got stuck in a wall. Only died once, and on hard (all we could open on).

However, it is a problem when your answer for level 14 is to run level 11-12 quests, and at level 12 you are running 8-9 quests and a couple of 10 raids. Level 14's should be running level 14 quests, and not worrying that they'll run out of XP at the 18-20 range and be grinding 3k slayers out in Shavarath, House Cannith Manufactury, Reaver's Refuge, and the Vale of Twilight.

I do feel that we need some 12-14 content, though not a lot. Something to offer an alternative to the incredibly crappy Necro III quests, and the good-but-growing-stale Desert offerings which have no loot (I'm not bitter about never getting anything worthwhile out of that pack in two years, especially out of the raid. nope, not at all ). Another 6-8 quests in a couple of packs, maybe a new mid-level raid in one of them. However, we need a LOT more 16-19 content. 40 or so quests, with at least a couple raids packed in there. It could be less, but Turbine has been stingy with XP as of late, very few of the newer packs match up to Necro II or GH in XP terms, not even close. Of course, not a one comes close to being as crappy as Necro II either.

[DarkAlchemist]

azrael4h: May I ask if this is yours, and/or your friends, third (or more) life? I ask because even a first time tr on a character is not so bad but come the second, or more, TR on that character and you will see, well, I do, how 14 seems to bottom out.

I do agree with you about necro because Necro 2 and Necro 3 (mostly Necro 2) kept me from buying anything but 4 since F2P came out. Absolutely horrible to play in for me. Not exceptionally tough but I would rather watch paint dry than to do Necro 2/3 because (outside of the crypts) at least I get something out of watching the slow process of paint drying.

[oradafu]

Although I completely agree that level 15+ need more quests, I'm going to have to side with DarkAlchemist about the need for more quests from level 12 on. Like DA, I find there to be a hump around level 14 causing me to personally stall. I've been saying for a while now that level 14 needs more quests since it consists of only flagging quests (which are for the most part group reliant) for GH and Necro4.

I do think a bit more padding is needed from level 12 on. Level 11 and lower have plenty of padding, where a person has enough quests to get to level 13 by running quests on elite. But at level 12 suddenly the number of quests (thus options) suddenly halves. Levelling from Korthos until level 12 or 13, there's options, that seems to disappear until level 18, where you can sit until you cap and have a lot of choices (if not great XP). The updates from the past year has helped greatly and the Learning Tomes has made TRing bearable. I'm sure the focus on the game is shifting towards the endgame, but I'm hoping that a few more updates to pad out the Teen levels will also be coming.

[ThePrisoner]

If you all recall there were 3-4 +20% xp or so weekends in a 6-9 month period. The end result I would argue is the major tome of learning which is somewhere between a 20% and 50% reduction in the xp required to cap a character to level 20. This weekend we have another +20% xp weekend. I think the devs and producers of this game are debating reducing xp by another 20 or so % to attain level 20. Is this a good thing? I do not know I am always sympathetic to those who put in the work to do something somewhat ahead of the curve. I am also extremely leary of the potential grind required for epic levels. I think Turbine has to not thumb its nose at those who trailblaze i.e. put in the work when it is early in the process and thus I am against any further reductions in xp to get to 20th level. I also do not want Turbine to make the grind to level 25 not be too outrageous. Come on now lets not penalize the trailblazers..

This whole argument seems to be based on a not too well thought out assumption.

[Valakai]

My guess is the epic levels would be attained by doing epic quests and attaining epic xp from them. But we will see...

[Nagantor]

If you all recall there were 3-4 +20% xp or so weekends in a 6-9 month period. The end result I would argue is the major tome of learning which is somewhere between a 20% and 50% reduction in the xp required to cap a character to level 20. This weekend we have another +20% xp weekend. I think the devs and producers of this game are debating reducing xp by another 20 or so % to attain level 20. Is this a good thing?

You know, there's something very important about percentage numbers. You always need to state their base. A Greater Tome of Learning gives 50%/20% *base* xp of the quest. Most of those events do the same. That's far, far less then a 50% XP elixir would do as they base on *total* xp. Tomes also don't add to optionals xp and for wilderness it's always 20%.

Remember: 100% base + 80% elite first time + 50% streak + 20% elite first difficulty + up to 25% kills, 15% breakable/trap/secret + 10% reenter/no death + 50% tome = 300 to 370%.
Replace tome by a true 50% bonus and you get 375 to 480% base xp and 50% more from optionals.

If you grind quests or get a notable amount from slayers, effect will be even less.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

I think the devs and producers of this game are debating reducing xp by another 20 or so % to attain level 20.

Can you provide a link to post supporting this?

[maddmatt70]

Can you provide a link to post supporting this?

I can not provide evidence that this is true or false. On the forums we do this all the time though we forecast or predict what is a likely future or change that could occur. The best time to actually post about something is well before it occurs so meaningful input can be provided at times in the developmental process where the devs and producers are receptive to input. What happens in the forums frequently is input via the forums is provided too late in the process to make any meaningful difference; hence, I am trying to provide meaningful input at a time when hopefully the devs and producers are receptive to that input. I do not want to hurt the trailblazers anymore then is necessary is the crux of my argument.

[jkm]

Sarcasm?


Between Necro2 and VoN, levels 10-13 go by in like 20 minutes.

I don't know if you've actually looked at the level 10 quests lately, but there isn't much there (whereas there is wayyyyy too much xp at level 9).

VoN 5/6
HiPs/Ghola Fan/Slavers
Last 2 of CO6 (which are normally ran earlier)
Reclamation/Sykros Jewel
Tomb of Rahmat
Several of the Threnal Series that you have to do BEFORE you can do south at level 9 on elite
2 of the Giant Caves

Typically, we max bar level 11 and then only get 3 bars into 12 before we have to go to 13 unless we save some VoN/Shadow Crypt runs for 12.

[eonfreon]

I can not provide evidence that this is true or false. On the forums we do this all the time though we forecast or predict what is a likely future or change that could occur. The best time to actually post about something is well before it occurs so meaningful input can be provided at times in the developmental process where the devs and producers are receptive to input. What happens in the forums frequently is input via the forums is provided too late in the process to make any meaningful difference; hence, I am trying to provide meaningful input at a time when hopefully the devs and producers are receptive to that input. I do not want to hurt the trailblazers anymore then is necessary is the crux of my argument.

How do you see trailblazers being hurt if the XP to level 20 is reduced? I didn't get it from your OP. I'll re-read it.

Edit: Re-read it and still don't see the corrolation.
Do you fear that the Devs are trying to get everyone to level to 20 as quickly as possible and then they'll put the brakes at levels 21+ with an incredible grind?

[CanuckWisdom]

The trailblazers, who yes, did more work/discovery, get to keep their already developed characters and gear collection. Making it easier to get to 20 does nothing to hurt that, in fact it means they can develop more characters to play quicker (on top of the speed from resources and experience), all it does is make the trip to 20 faster.

Im not arguing for easier leveling, but ive seen this discussion here in various forms before, making it easier for new people does NO harm to people who have already done it.

[BDS]

How are these so called "trail blazers" hurt exactly? It would make future TR's quicker, less painful, and for many more enjoyable. The only people who I could see complaining are completionists and people completely done TR'n their toons and even then I'd think they would be happy that their future leveling projects will be done quicker and they can start earning epic levels.

I have multiple Legend toons and could not care less and would be happy if this mysterious nerf to XP needed came about. Do not deny progress because something was more difficult in the past.

[Deathdefy]

I agree with Matt that further xp requirement nerfing might be on the cards.

Given BB's and Tomes of Learning's introductions recently, I'm guessing Turbine would like to see the journey to the new content at cap as less of a chore.

The new content is, presumably, pretty cool and a big drawcard for potential players who'd like to see the Forgotten Realms. That fact alone means it's likely Turbine would like to speed the journey there - including for new players who might be unwilling to purchase a Tome of Learning as of yet, or are running Normal and thus not getting the Bravery Bonus advantage. First life characters played by totally new players don't level that quickly even with the reduced xp relative to TR 1 and 2s.

I'm also guessing that since Past-Life stacking can give enormous benefits (Casters: Passive Spell Pen +9, Ranged: +12 damage per ranged sneak attack, Tanks: +30 Base HP ~15% Healing Amp) and that the truly end-game content might cater towards this kind of character, that getting characters with those perks shouldn't only be for those with a 3 year history of semi-regular play.

That said, I personally am not bothered by a further reduction of total XP required despite having done my share of TRs.

[maddmatt70]

The trailblazers, who yes, did more work/discovery, get to keep their already developed characters and gear collection. Making it easier to get to 20 does nothing to hurt that, in fact it means they can develop more characters to play quicker (on top of the speed from resources and experience), all it does is make the trip to 20 faster.

Im not arguing for easier leveling, but ive seen this discussion here in various forms before, making it easier for new people does NO harm to people who have already done it.

If you have put the work into something only to see the grind reduced by 60 or 70% it becomes a question of why do it. Why trailblaze when you can just wait until you get it easy. Why not move onto another game where you can trailblaze and not see your efforts trivialized. I have done many trs and plan to do several more, but I sympathize with those that put the work in only to see their efforts trivialized. If trailblazing keeps getting trivialized in one form or another I would move on to something else if I were trailblazer.

The devs further trivialize xp lets say. They make epic levels some immense grind and then in 1-2 years from now they trivialize epic xp lets say. I mean being a hamster in a wheel gets old. Stay consistant with the rules you create please.

[eonfreon]

If you have put the work into something only to see the grind reduced by 60 or 70% it becomes a question of why do it. Why trailblaze when you can just wait until you get it easy. Why not move onto another game where you can trailblaze and not see your efforts trivialized. I have done many trs and plan to do several more, but I sympathize with those that put the work in only to see their efforts trivialized. If trailblazing keeps getting trivialized in one form or another I would move on to something else if I were trailblazer.

The devs further trivialize xp lets say. They make epic levels some immense grind and then in 1-2 years from now they trivialize epic xp lets say. I mean being a hamster in a wheel gets old. Stay consistant with the rules you create please.

That's a rather tall request. The game is not static. New content is created and new players join. What was endgame one update can become midgame in another update. I think you'll find very few games that don't readjust older things as new things are added.

The reason to trailblaze is to just do it. To get "there" (wherever it is) as soon as possible. To play whatever new content exists. To have fun too, hopefully.

There's little reason to worry about your accomplishments becoming trivialized down the line. Because it's a game; therefore the accomplishments are largely trivial to begin with.

If you fear that there's no point in doing something now because down the line it may become easier, then wait it out. You'll never get a guarantee that things won't change in the future.

Requesting that the leveling up process beyond lvl 20 not be some unreasonable grind is one thing, and that I will agree and stand with you. But the worry that xp bonuses and reductions will trivialize the time spent playing a game is something I just can't wrap my head around.

[Emili]

DDO took the simple Dungeons&Dragons experience table (level 20 is 190.000) and then x10 for first life characters = 1,9 million.

Level 25 on those same tables is only 110.000 more... meaning it would be 1,1 million from level 20 to 25 giving the same ratio on a first lifer.

If I consider that... and they applied it to a multi TR would mean a little over 6 million would be the level 25 cap.

[ShadowFlash]

If you have put the work into something only to see the grind reduced by 60 or 70% it becomes a question of why do it. Why trailblaze when you can just wait until you get it easy. Why not move onto another game where you can trailblaze and not see your efforts trivialized. I have done many trs and plan to do several more, but I sympathize with those that put the work in only to see their efforts trivialized. If trailblazing keeps getting trivialized in one form or another I would move on to something else if I were trailblazer.

The devs further trivialize xp lets say. They make epic levels some immense grind and then in 1-2 years from now they trivialize epic xp lets say. I mean being a hamster in a wheel gets old. Stay consistant with the rules you create please.

In the technology industry "trailblazing" is called "the bleeding edge"....and the word "bleeding" ain't in there for nothing...call it "early adopters" or any of a bunch of other eupahmisms...it's done by choice, personal satisfaction, and a sense of accomplishment. If you or others are dependant on the masses having to go through the same toils as you for you to attain these feelings of pride an accomplishment, then perhaps the phrase "if you can't beat em..." fits more appropriatley.

I've spent thousands of dollars in my heyday to have the bestest most uber computer possible, only to have my investment "trivialized" months later when the "masses" started purchasing the same equipment and the price dropped like a rock. Never would I have thought to exclaim that prices should remain higher because that's what I paid!

Go buy a BMW brand spankin' new....then look at the same year and model 2 years later (still overstock sitting on the lot) and complain how it's 1/2 the cost...

This is simply how life works..."trailblazers" blaze trails to make it easier or more effective for those that come after.

I certainly appreciate how much hard work was done by the community before MY arrival to the game...community projects such as DDO wiki are invaluable to me. The forums themselves are invaluable to garner knowledge from more experienced players like you. I personally THANK YOU for your time spent grinding it out, and giving advice to new people.

ShadowFlash

[Petrovskis]

I suspect L21-25 won't be based on XP at all. I think it will be based on completions of epic quests so that you need X number of completions to get from a to b. Epic raids could count as 3 or 5 completions to make up for their extra difficulty/time/timer.

I dont know if this would be a good thing, its just what i think.

Petrov