Cleric Questions..and mini rant...

[dwwithers]

After a long wait, I finally made my first divine character(Cleric). His name is Rumpale and runs on Thelanis. I did tons of research and reading to try and figure out what I would prefer, be it melee or DC/Healing. I went with the DC/Healing build. I have got the character up to just under level 13 and wanted to get some advice from all the pros out here. I’ve been playing off an on since the game came out, but took about a three year break. These are the observations/mixed with questions that I have made. Feel free to post any answers or pointers you may have.

1. I seem to have a problem with mana consumption or just not enough mana to last. I have just short of 1k mana and always seem to be running out. I use my BB and Comet Fall sparingly and when needed, but I always seem to be holding back some so I can heal the party. I use my meta magic’s for my bursts and aura, but they just don’t seem to be able to keep up with the healing demands. Is this normal? I don’t want to be a nannybot, but I also don’t want to blow my load and when “it” hits the fan (and we all know it will), say sorry…out of mana. I believe my job in the party is to help keep everyone alive, be that with damage mitigation, healing, or resurrection but I just don’t seem to be able to do it all. Any advice on how to properly heal and use BB is great.

2. I tend to stay away from PUG’s with this character due to a bad experience. When I do join, I let them know up front that this is my first Cleric ever and that I am new to the healing role. Most are ok, but it’s the ones that run off and demand that I come after them and heal them and then want to give me grief because I let them die. I have learned to watch the first couple of battles and see who’s the one that is going to need more healing than the others. They are the ones that go charging off head first into the battle not watching the red bar, run around a corner, then die…and then blame me for letting them dieing. When this happens I find my self spending more and more time watching them, trying to keep them alive and not paying much attention to the rest of the party. Then when we wipe, I’m the one to blame…not the guy running off, or drawing so much argo that his red bar goes down faster than I can heal. That leaves me with only questing with my guild, which is great, but they are not always on. Is this normal in most pugs or have I just been very unlucky with the pugs I have joined? What should I say or do different when I join the PUG? I have zero raid experience and want to make sure I can handle the duties that will come with them when I get to that point. The most understanding and fun pugs that I have been in are the groups that were mostly TR’s. They were always patient and stayed close enough that I did not have to run off and find them to heal them.

3. I am in game poor. I don’t have the resources to buy super gear, and most of the plat I do have goes back into my character in the form of spell components, wands and repairs. Along the way I have found some decent but nothing you ever read about on the forums. My question here is what should I be looking for and what should I be using around this level (12-13)?

4. Any other advice that anyone might be able to give would be great too. Thanks in advance.

I know I rambled quite a bit in this post, but I really enjoy playing a divine character, but its just so blasted frustrating.

[Miow]

I just failed my save(wall of jumble text)....i can't read pass the first few lines...sorry

[Mubjon]

It is hard for a first life and first character to play a cleric. Most do not realize the cost associated with the class. You can spread out the mana a bit by using wands and scrolls. Those cost plat though and can be expensive to keep buying if you are not able to run with groups that require not being babysitted. Here is some advice for you over the last 2 years of playing primarily Clerics on my end.

1) Run a few of the lower level quests that have a lot of chest when you first create your Cleric. Irestone is a good one, Waterworks is another. These quests have a lot of chests in them for gear that is pretty much vendor trash. Sell it all, break open barrels, crates and everything you can to get stuff to sell or find silver and copper. Use this money to buy wands (level 5 for cure critical I believe in House J) and Scrolls. At around level 6 you can use raise dead scrolls with little bit of failure and if the party wants to have that backup, then they should be willing to pitch in to buy a few scrolls and/or wands. I know on my melees I usually keep a wand available to give to the divine or person in charge of keeping the party healed.

2) Another good way to get plat to buy consumables like scrolls and wands is to sell essences. You can generally sell them within an hour on your server if you offer greater for 400 plat a piece in the AH and oftentimes you will find someone buying them for 200 to 250 or up if you watch the trade channel in the marketplace or harbor. Also think to sell crafting componets for a bit. Deadly Ferverbranches (spelling on that) are good to sell for upwards of 5K a piece depending on the server. Mostly what I do if I am new to the server and have a cleric is check the AH for prices and then undercut those listing prices by at least 20% so I can sell what I have quickly.

3) If someone is being a mana sponge or running off leaving you behind, I tell them first time that I will not try to keep up with them as I do not have sprint boost, do not have exp retreat or haste. If they wish to be healed keep that in mine and come back to me. Or I let them die and ride in the pack til we get to the shrine. If they are being abusive I squelch them and or report them. My enjoyment of playing the game is not based on keeping them alive and if they wanted a nanny they should have solo'd the quest with a hire.

4) Equipment you must have

Superior Ardor VI clickies - this will boost all cure spells by 75% for 3 minutes, as well as your aura and bursts
Superior Potency VI - this will boost the damage of your offensive spells by 60% I think it is
Archivist Necklace from Korthos - good for as much as 70 spell points, could me the difference between getting to the shrine and not
Highest mana stick or item you can get to boost SP before quest and before shrining. This would be power, wizardy, magi and archmagi as you gain levels.

Then if you can farm some

Chronoscope stuff at level 5 - great boost to stats and will help out greatly in most slots. I like the gloves, Helm and cloak minimum. Bracers and boots are good too. They also give 10 resists to all but sonic if I remember right which is good and will save you some sp from having to cast the spell if you do not have ship buffs.

Sora Korell set - great for casting and attacking can get it in the lordmarch chain that is f2p and is level 12 I believe

Minos Helm from farming Taps in the orchard (necro IV) - Level 11 has +20 hp and heavy fortification very easy to get.

As well early on mostly from level 5 to around 13 or 14 a suit of armor that has Invulnerable on it for DR 5/ -

Also at that time (level 13 or 14) AC stops mattering a whole lot (mostly because you cannot get it high enough) start looking for robes with nice enhancements on them.

Carry a shield and possibly use a feat to get shield mastery - This gives up to 20% damage reduction and you can use a tower shield as long as you are not attacking with it.

Just some basic information that will help you out

[danotmano1998]

1. I seem to have a problem with mana consumption

I've run into the same thing as well.
Experience will teach you best when you can unload and when to conserve.
Each quest is different. Some have shrines every time you turn around. Some have none.

Most of your SP worries will disappear when you learn how far it is to the next shrine, and what to expect along the way. Practice makes perfect.

2. I tend to stay away from PUG’s with this character due to a bad experience.

I can't blame you there. Most folks see a healer in a quest and assume that they will do nothing but keep them healed while they kill stuff.
Yes, healing IS a big part of the class, but it is not the ONLY function of it.

Keep the party healed with your bursts/auras as much as you can.
Expect that THEY will show enough intelligence to come to you for heals and to stand within your aura or top themselves off between fights if they need it.

You can't heal stupid. It's true. Play to the best of your ability, and IGNORE the jerks.
Learn from your mistakes, have fun, and if you're feeling like the training dummy from party abuse, don't group with those people again.

3. I am in game poor.

This will change. Once you get into the higher level quests, the platinum will roll in.
A typical Shroud run will net you around 10K in platinum for 1/2 an hour of questing.
Learn what sells on the AH well, and keep your eyes open. You might be surprised to find out some of those nearly worthless collectibles are highly valuable items to a cannith crafter.

4. Any other advice that anyone might be able to give would be great too. Thanks in advance.

Personally, I found playing a cleric easier to learn the first time through by having them melee through the low levels. That way I always had plenty of SP for healing.
As I learned the quests and the class, it became much easier to know when to unload and when to conserve.


Best of luck to you, and Happy Adventuring!

[MartinusWyllt]

1. This is challenging. Finding sp boost items you can swap out after buffing can help a little.

I believe my job in the party is to help keep everyone alive, be that with damage mitigation, healing, or resurrection but I just don’t seem to be able to do it all.

This is not your job, in my opinion. You can be the glue in a party playing smart but you can't carry a party through on your resources alone...at least not without getting pretty disgruntled about it. In good parties I found that I wasn't actually healing constantly. You sometimes mass or burst or single target heal but don't generally need to be "the healer" until end fights.

Blade barrier also works better when soloing or if your group is doing a lot of kiting.

and then blame me for letting them dieing.

Nope, not your fault. You can make it clear that if they're going to zerg off then they can expect to take care of themselves. If they're good at zerging they can. If they want someone to follow and heal them through whatever then they should summon a hireling.

The most understanding and fun pugs that I have been in are the groups that were mostly TR’s. They were always patient and stayed close enough that I did not have to run off and find them to heal them.

Yes, while not exclusive or always true of TRs I've found this to generally be the case with TR PuGs on Thelanis. Mostly people can take care of themselves that have played the game a while.

For advice based on my divine experiences:

1. You have BB now, solo things. For fun and profit, you'll get a better handle on how to manage your mana, how to kite and how to take care of things on your own. Being familiar with where and how many shrines are available to you helps immensely.

2. Avoid "need healer" LFMs as a general rule. Those are the ones that are usually going to expect you to nanny. This doesn't mean only look for "BYOH". The "TR friendly" groups will likely accept you just fine and will likely result in an experience like you've already had.

3. Lose the sense that you're responsible if other players die. Sure there might be moments when you could have had reasonably averted a death but, ultimately, they likely go themselves killed through no fault of yours. This is most obvious in cases where they're instakilled or choose to run through that trap where the trapper is still working on the box.

4. At your level you should be seeing an appreciably positive plat stream. For items to farm the sora kell set from the F2P lordsmarch quests is nice as will the cove gear later this month. If you can stand Invaders you can farm a nice heal-boosting mace. Spell enhancement clikies can also be your friend. If you can stand farming the desert you can work on getting a ring of spell storing and if you pick up a blood stone on the way those can still sell for decent amounts of plat. Cannith crafting can be your friend, too.

Just some thoughts, not saying these are the best bits of advice, but they worked for me.

[ShadowFlash]

Then if you can farm some

Sora Korell set - great for casting and attacking can get it in the lordmarch chain that is f2p and is level 12 I believe

Minos Helm from farming Taps in the orchard (necro IV) - Level 11 has +20 hp and heavy fortification very easy to get.

Can't wear both at once For my cleric, the Sora Kell Set took priority. Use the Nightforge Gorget from Relics of the Soverign Past (necklace) instead, and wait until you can get the Thaarak Bracelet for Toughness.

ShadowFlash

[Mubjon]

Can't wear both at once For my cleric, the Sora Kell Set took priority. Use the Nightforge Gorget from Relics of the Soverign Past (necklace) instead, and wait until you can get the Thaarak Bracelet for Toughness.

ShadowFlash

true you cannot, but you should really get all that on your character to give you choices

Me I wore the Sora Kell set and then got a robe with heavy fortification, because with greater false life and a guild slotted health crystal the 20 hp is not that great of miss.

[Tenchi]

Welcome to Club Cleric. :-)

My first toon was a cleric and I think I can feel your pain. However, Clerics, along with other toons, can take time to mature and build upon once you get the right gear.

1. I seem to have a problem with mana consumption or just not enough mana to last. I have just short of 1k mana and always seem to be running out.

I have a healthy stock of wands on Cure Critical Wounds just in case (2-3 should last you a while). Once you start raiding, you will be needing Heal scrolls. Do not be afraid of admitting you accept donations. A lot of people, especially on Thelanis, can be generous.

2. I tend to stay away from PUG’s with this character due to a bad experience. When I do join, I let them know up front that this is my first Cleric ever and that I am new to the healing role. Most are ok, but it’s the ones that run off and demand that I come after them and heal them and then want to give me grief because I let them die.

PUGs will always be a hit or miss, but you will never be able to discern good/famous players from bad ones if you don't join them. Take note of who is good and who is just horrible (i.e. does not listen) by writing them on your friends list.

I always feel guilty if somebody dies, but one thing I learned is that I will never heal people who b**ch and whine OR do stupid things repeatedly. (SIDENOTE: I dropped a soulstone once into the lava due to frustration. I find that therapeutic)

I have learned to watch the first couple of battles and see who’s the one that is going to need more healing than the others. They are the ones that go charging off head first into the battle not watching the red bar, run around a corner, then die…and then blame me for letting them dieing.

When I see somebody being a mana soaker, I warn them via chat/tells. Again, YOU are the cleric. FEEL EMPOWERED of being in charge of your own mana pool. If in your best judgement, you sense that you need to ration mana, then do it.

When this happens I find my self spending more and more time watching them, trying to keep them alive and not paying much attention to the rest of the party. Then when we wipe, I’m the one to blame…not the guy running off, or drawing so much argo that his red bar goes down faster than I can heal.

Again, if you speak your concerns out, you will not be the one to blame. The Cleric is the usual scapegoat, it is a tough job. Regardless, be empowered as if people annoy you, you can just stop healing them purposely and have fun watching them squirm and die. That's why my Cleric bio says "always be nice to Clerics".

That leaves me with only questing with my guild, which is great, but they are not always on. Is this normal in most pugs or have I just been very unlucky with the pugs I have joined?

You may have been just unlucky. There are some good PUGs out there, usually found in the non-FreeToPlay quests XP farming with their TRs.

What should I say or do different when I join the PUG? I have zero raid experience and want to make sure I can handle the duties that will come with them when I get to that point. The most understanding and fun pugs that I have been in are the groups that were mostly TR’s. They were always patient and stayed close enough that I did not have to run off and find them to heal them.

Admit you are new to the quest. Remember, healers are ALWAYS welcome in a party. For raids, I tell them to give me tips if I am unfamiliar with it. Ask who to heal (party or tank)? And the healing order (you or the other cleric heals first?). Learn to triage - identify if it is better to heal or rez somebody or to take care of debuffs.

3. I am in game poor. I don’t have the resources to buy super gear, and most of the plat I do have goes back into my character in the form of spell components, wands and repairs.

Throw a joke in your party chat saying you're broke and accepting Wand donations. Again, many people are generous. If they see you do not have your "TR wings" they would be more than happy to help you. Do a bit more research on what sells good in the AH. There is a thread in the forum somewhere about that.

Finally, learn raids and do raids. It will be the best way to get Cleric gear (ToD set, Gloves of Eternity from Reavers Fate, Greensteel from Shroud)

Along the way I have found some decent but nothing you ever read about on the forums. My question here is what should I be looking for and what should I be using around this level (12-13)?

For now, stand back and nanny it. You will notice you will be more powerful once you get your Implosion and Destruction. Do not worry about DPSing for now.

Make sure you have a Superior Ardor/Potency/Efficacy/Devotion Item for your healing spells. Superior Devotion/Ardor V or VI is reasonably easy to find which makes your basic mass heals (Cure Light Wounds, Mass and Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass VERY economical to use (compared to individual heals).)

Take Empower Healing and the Enhancements associated with it.

Find a Magi/Wizardry item to increase your SP pool.

Carry CCW wands.

Any other advice that anyone might be able to give would be great too. Thanks in advance.
I know I rambled quite a bit in this post, but I really enjoy playing a divine character, but its just so blasted frustrating.

I have a lot of toons but I find the experience playing a Cleric to be the most difficult but the most rewarding.

Hang in there and always FEEL EMPOWERED!

Speak up if there is a problem or if you need anything in party chat.

Good luck!

[PNellesen]

Pretty much all you need to know about being a Divine Caster can be found in The Path to Enlightenment thread.

SP conservation can be a tricky thing. At level 12 or 13 you should have Radiant Servant II if you're a Pure Cleric; that should be enough for a large portion of your healing needs. Make it a point at the beginning of a pug, with players you've never run with before, to let them know that you can't heal around corners, and that you can't heal from 2 floors above or below them. Do NOT run after them no matter how much they whine - it's a HUGE waste of resources better spent on the people who ARE staying with the group. Let the stupid ones die and /squelch them if they complain (Once I learned that lesson, my pugging got MUCH more enjoyable and much LESS resource-intensive.)

Try to get Superior Ardor VI clickies, and Superior Potency items as well. Anything that can boost your healing/damage output without costing you any extra SP (Feats, enhancements, etc.).

[justagame]

I don't know anything about your character other than what you wrote, so I'll start with the basics:

1. You said you had gotten to level 13. Make sure you are a tier-II radiant servant. Make ample use of radiant bursts, but (a) apply ALL of your metas to them, including empower heal, maximize, and empower if you have it. Make use of the aura as well, and make sure to apply the aura to that as well. For best results make sure you have activated a superior devotion clicky, or at least have super potency equipped, when activating any aura or burst. It's free healing. Best of all, it saves your sp for the fun stuff.

2. Your most efficient source of healing (outside of #1) is mass cure moderate. Empower healing gives it a 75% boost for 10 sp, so that's efficient, but the other metas will cost you more sp than they are worth IMO. Ditto #1 on having a superior ardor clicky or superior potency for max effect.

Now, #1 and #2 require cooperation from the party. Insist on it. You are their lifeline. Without any ounce of attitude, I start with new pugs by stating "I tend to use mass cures for healing, so if we're taking a lot of damage and you want to stay healed, group up." The implication is that, if you run off from the group, I'll get to you when and if I can.

3. As far as single target healing goes, NEVER use metas on the cure xx wounds spells, except for maybe empower healing on CCW. They are really low in cost now, and metas destroy their efficiency. HEAL is your most efficient single target spell. Be careful, though -- while it is tempting and cheap to have it empower-healed all the time, you really don't need to do so at your level. You will overheal the vast majority of the time, and waste 10 sp each time.

4. Be careful with metas in general. As discussed above, don't maximize and empower everything. Ditto goes for quicken and extend. I rarely extend buffs anymore, except for the short duration ones. When melees have 25, 30 minutes of good buffs going, they never want to stop and shrine when you need to. Speaking of buffs...

5. Buff judiciously. On my first cleric, I was in awe at how much mana I was blowing on buffs. I'd cast extended resists, DW, FoM, etc. on everyone, and before I knew it, 1/3 to 1/2 of my mana bar was gone. Plenty of classes can cast similar buffs, ask them to chip in. In a couple of levels, most of your good buffs will be mass buffs anyway, so that will help you.

6. As others have pointed out, there are a few affordable items you should get your hands on: A magi stick (scepter or club most likely). Have it equipped while shrining, then swap out after buffing. Second, the aforementioned superior ardor VI clicky (easy and cheap to acquire), and superior potency VI. Actually, the latter is ML 14, so you might have to settle for greater potency VI in the meantime. They are worth it, they help both healing, and damage spells.

7. Lastly, learn to pick your pugs well. A group of non-TR 11 to 13's wanting to do madstone elite? With low hit points and heavy fort? Pass. An all-melee group on a quest that needs arcane CC to reduce incoming damage? Pass. A group of WF barbarians, and no arcanes? Pass. Work with your pug, but insist that they work with you as well. If someone constantly runs off, and aggro a bunch of stuff that keeps you from getting to them, tough cookies -- I hope they brought pots. If a party simply runs around willy-nilly and expects you to ask like a hireling, dump them and move on. There ARE good players out there, ones that know how to cooperate with a good healer.

8. If there IS someone who is needing most of your healing, but it doing so in a planned way, taking aggro from the rest of the party, they are doing you a favor of sorts, depending on the amount of healing required. You can often keep them up with heal scrolls. You said you were cash poor, so heal scrolls probably look expensive to you now (they won't later on) -- so if someone really is needing that much healing, ask for a stack of scrolls. If not, pass, and find someone with better damage mitigation.

[Sgt_Hart]

1. I seem to have a problem with mana consumption or just not enough mana to last. I have just short of 1k mana and always seem to be running out. I use my BB and Comet Fall sparingly and when needed, but I always seem to be holding back some so I can heal the party. I use my meta magic’s for my bursts and aura, but they just don’t seem to be able to keep up with the healing demands. Is this normal? I don’t want to be a nannybot, but I also don’t want to blow my load and when “it” hits the fan (and we all know it will), say sorry…out of mana. I believe my job in the party is to help keep everyone alive, be that with damage mitigation, healing, or resurrection but I just don’t seem to be able to do it all. Any advice on how to properly heal and use BB is great.

Greensteel concordant opposition(Tier 3 bonus), and a Torc out of Demon queen will help immensely with Mana recharging, takes too damned long, and is a PITA to accomplish, but it makes a huge difference long term.

Your about right with blade barrier: sparingly. Thing is it only deals damage upon entry/exit. If the archer is kiting stuff, throw one. maybe even two. If said archer is worth a damned, he'll use them. Otherwise blade barrier tends to just grab aggro to you, and if the melee's are in and fighting.. they don't/won't want stuff being kited in and out.

I didn't see any mention of divine punishment, so I'm going to mention: that should be your primary boss DPS. Cast it, count to 10 as you throw out some heals, hit tab a few times til you have the boss back, and cast it again.

It stacks up to three times. Which is a horribly vague way to explain it, so I'll do it the right way: If you recast this spell before its duration has expired, you get all the benefits of having cast it twice, with the timer for both reset to full duration. A third time, likewise kicks it up.

2. I tend to stay away from PUG’s with this character due to a bad experience. When I do join, I let them know up front that this is my first Cleric ever and that I am new to the healing role. Most are ok, but it’s the ones that run off and demand that I come after them and heal them and then want to give me grief because I let them die. I have learned to watch the first couple of battles and see who’s the one that is going to need more healing than the others. They are the ones that go charging off head first into the battle not watching the red bar, run around a corner, then die…and then blame me for letting them dieing. When this happens I find my self spending more and more time watching them, trying to keep them alive and not paying much attention to the rest of the party. Then when we wipe, I’m the one to blame…not the guy running off, or drawing so much argo that his red bar goes down faster than I can heal. That leaves me with only questing with my guild, which is great, but they are not always on. Is this normal in most pugs or have I just been very unlucky with the pugs I have joined? What should I say or do different when I join the PUG? I have zero raid experience and want to make sure I can handle the duties that will come with them when I get to that point. The most understanding and fun pugs that I have been in are the groups that were mostly TR’s. They were always patient and stayed close enough that I did not have to run off and find them to heal them.

Triage: you need to work out who's worth saving, and who isn't. if Sir Doltimus the barbarian wants to aggro half the dungeon, by himself.. let him. His stone isn't going anywhere. MY personal rule of thumb: I'll be by the last man. he may have gone AFK for five minutes, but its easier to run it with him, then to run back and raise him because he got lost. Doesn't work for everyone. but it works for me.

And I bring this up in relation to both 1 & 2 but.. how many turn undead's do you have? Essentially Moar = better. They recharge every 2 minutes. so in general, use the first 1 or 2 to burst in the first fight, and after that, have aura on.

Have aura on.

Have aura on.

Have aura on.

OK, I still didn't say it enough, but the reason is two fold:

1. People nearby you get healed, with 0 interest/effort on your part. Refer Sir Doltimus to this.
2. It's a fantastic way to heal up minor damage in combat.

Obviously, you don't need it on if everyons full, or just barely wounded between combat's, but if the party is say.. < 75% and moving towards the next battle, click on aura and just say "Pace me". The ghost of Charles Darwin will see the intelligent ones do exactly that.



A superior potency(50%) 6th level spells item is awesome for this. Hell, make it a pirate hat when cove comes back out. Meanwhile.. see below.

3. I am in game poor. I don’t have the resources to buy super gear, and most of the plat I do have goes back into my character in the form of spell components, wands and repairs. Along the way I have found some decent but nothing you ever read about on the forums. My question here is what should I be looking for and what should I be using around this level (12-13)?

You desperately want the Sora-katra set out of the Free half of lordsmarch.

1. Teraza's Sight
2. Katra's Wit
3. Maenya's Iron Fists

Note the set bonus: This set item bonus will grant Greater Potency 6. You will also gain +2 to-hit and +2 damage. (to-hit and damage stacks, potency effect does not)

You may also get some good mileage out of this page. clicking on the name of any of the slots mentioned, will take you to a page full of what fits in that slot. I'm sure its missing a few odds and ends, but by far and large is a solid list, with most of the details of what it does summarized, and where it's found quest wise.

4. Any other advice that anyone might be able to give would be great too. Thanks in advance.

Read this. Sounds like your #2, or #3 n that list, depending on the group your in. Hope it helps.

[Gorbadoc]

I'll see your ramble and raise you three!

1. I seem to have a problem with mana consumption

More on operant conditioning later, but make sure people understand the concept of healing between fights. It's cheap to wand whip everyone up to full with a Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds, and it goes pretty fast if the rangers/paladins/bards/UMD folks all whip wands, too. As for that doofus who runs to the next fight before you're done healing? He gets ZERO healing and ZERO support from you: His attitude indicates that he thinks he doesn't need you. If the party thinks you have some weird psychological condition that prevents you from functioning when someone runs ahead before healing is done, they'll learn not to run ahead. More on that later.

2. I tend to stay away from PUG’s with this character due to a bad experience. When I do join, I let them know up front that this is my first Cleric ever and that I am new to the healing role. Most are ok, but it’s the ones that run off and demand that I come after them and heal them and then want to give me grief because I let them die... The most understanding and fun pugs that I have been in are the groups that were mostly TR’s. They were always patient and stayed close enough that I did not have to run off and find them to heal them.

To PUG as a cleric, you need a thick skin and self confidence. It's your job to budget your spell points and consumables. If someone demands more of you than you can provide, either by taking too much damage or by running away from you, trust your own judgment and say, "No."

For some of the boneheads you'll run with, operant conditioning is the only thing they'll understand. Maybe you're a lousy cleric, or maybe you're a big mean authoritarian-- either way, they'll learn to respect your limitations if they don't want to be a soul stone. When someone runs off, they are not your problem. If you already Healed someone from zero to full in the last two minutes, they can stay at half health until they play more conservative or give you a pile of Heal scrolls.

And in fact, if your well-paced healing and well-placed refusals to heal bring the party together, reining in the loose cannons, that means you're a great cleric. Sure, your numbers might still be lousy-- you have crummy gear, crummy finances, etc. In a PUG, though, controlling player behavior is every bit as important as your more technical skills (technical skills being things like knowing which spell to use, when to switch to wands, and such).

As for the TRs being so pleasant, yeah, they apparently get it. They behave without you busting out the operant conditioning.

3. I am in game poor.

You said that you tell PUGs up front that you're new to clerics and not particularly wealthy. They should get it: If they want much healing beyond what your blue bar provides (and maybe Cure Moderate wands), they need to do it for themselves or give you some wands/scrolls/plat. Don't burn expensive wands or scrolls on a party who doesn't respect your limitations.

As for gear to look for, Superior Potency and Superior Ardor are your friends.

I was surprised recently when I grouped with someone who didn't know this, so I'll mention it: You can hold a Superior Potency weapon in your left hand while waving a wand with your right hand. Make a weapon set with a dummy weapon in the right hand, the potency weapon in the left. Equip that weapon set. Equip a wand or scroll. Now you can wand whip AND cast spells at the same time.

[Havok.cry]

My advice at least for the mid levels where my first cleric is also at, buy a giant staxk of heal scrolls for party heals and use SP for damage and emergency healing. This may not apply to raids though, not sure.

About the guy who runs off, let him die. Keep everyone else up.

[Khimberlhyte]

Tons of great advice above. I second the above regarding Superior Ardor VI clickies, the Sora Kell set, and damage mitigation. The Staff of Fleshshaping (harbringer chain in harbor) is nice too at level 14. Full plate of the Giants from Tempests Spine is very nice on a cleric, but the Bloodrage Symbiont trinket from VoN 4 is good to have as well - both offer DR 5/-, which is amazing to have.

Up to mid-high levels, an experienced cleric should be able to expect to complete an at-level elite in a decent group with mininmal resource consumption, especially with the aura running. You don't have the experience yet, and seem to suffer from a lack of decent groups.

It takes time, but eventually you'll have a better idea about the groups chance of success than anyone else in the party. You'll be able to tell after the first fight, and sometimes as early as the dungeon entrance.

Most groups have the potential to make it through any quest with strategy, teamplay, and tactics. However, many squander that potential with poor play. Some new / inexperienced / immature players will watch a well-geared and knowledgeable player effortlessly zerg through anything in the low and mid levels, and figure they can do the same. They can't, unless other players (mostly the cleric) burn resources to enable them, or carry them in some other manner. Most experienced cleric players would encourage you to refuse to enable poor gameplay by others. You have gear to buy and repair bills too.

Warning signs of a bad group for me include things like clueless running ahead into traps, no healing amp on WF, melee getting in over their heads by taking on multiple rooms of mobs, WF arcanes who won't buff others or self-repair at all, failure to take advantage of crowd control or AoE spells, lack of effort to avoid or mitigate incoming damage, leaving enemy casters alive, etc. Anyone who stands in an enemy firewall for more than one tick had better be carrying a stack of heal pots.

In the few serious failpugs I end up in on my cleric, when I'm down half a blue bar just keeping them alive in the first room, I'll mention that they are playing sloppy, and need to work together. Because I am an arrogant jerk, I'll also give them fair warning at that point to not expect me to burn resources like pots or scrolls on them. It's up to them to pick up their game, re-enter on a lower difficulty, or wipe. Any of those options is fine with me. I'm not subsidizing stupidity.

While I have enough plat to not worry about using a dozen heal scrolls on a quest, there are very few places in this game that I now expect to use resources, and none I can think of below level 14 on any difficulty. Apart from one or two level 20 raids, I don't expect to use pots on normal either, or on most hard or elite quests between levels 14-20. Needing a memnonic potion or burning more than 20 scrolls is a sign to me that I may be in over my head, or buying a win. I'll go into elite House C quests expecting to burn a stack of scrolls, but that is because I won't heal with SP outside of combat in quests like that, since things can go south so quickly in there.

All of my clerics / FvS either hit things or cast (or both). Healing is something that they do on the side, but apart from raids which almost force you to become a healbot, there is so much more to the game for a cleric than just healing. On a cleric, I find regular quests way more fun than raids.

Practice makes perfect. It is worthwhile to practice soloing so that you get better with blade barrier, and targeting spells like soundburst, command, and cometfall. I'll often save some of those for the "holy cr@#" moments, where spamming three of them and blowing 150 SP on crowd control can make the difference between a completion and a wipe.

I found that I learned more running solo about improving my targeting and observing what effects spells have, and and which mobs they work on. Learn which spells target which type of saves, and use the right one for the situation - tossing a Fort save spell like Soundburst at an enemy barbarian is a waste of SP, as is a Will save spell like Greater Command on an enemy cleric or ranger.

[hiryuu42]

I find that the 10-12 level range is a sort of "Judgement Day" in DDO. Almost any build will survive the early quests, but flaws in the build, player, or play style make getting past this point difficult. In the face of failure, people (not specific to DDO) start by blaming outside influence: luck, conspiracy, timing, that stupid cleric.

As those weaklings face reality and drop away, later levels do get easier and less frustrating. TRs, having already faced Judgement Day in the last life, are usually better to deal with. As others have said, your job is to complete the quest. Sometimes that means letting people die.

I don't find Blade Barrier all that good in groups, especially PUGs, because they suck at kiting. Cometfall the casters, and Greater Command the melees to reduce incoming damage.

[Meat-Head]

12-13 are tough levels for all divines. You are powerful now (BB), but don't have the mana to really shine.


1. Get an wizardy/magi stick
2. Use your bursts and aura as much as you can for healing (make sure metas are turned on).
2.5 Take "extra turning" enhancements for more turns. You can swap em out later if you want.
2.75 take the mana enhancements for more mana. You can swap em out later.
3. Sup ardor.
4. Tell the group: gather for a heal please. Then throw a burst
5. Let. Stupid. People. Die.
6. Make sure ppl have resists (not necessarily from YOU!)
7. Ask arcanes to hand out blur if/when appropriate.

[axel15810]

Looks like everything has been covered so I won't repeat it.

Just be a leader and take charge in PUGS. You have the most important role (IMO). It's not your role to cover for stupid or bad players. Just let them die. If the group is terrible, tell them that you are dropping because you want a stronger group. Don't take any ****. You're a valued commodity and there's tons of great groups out there who would love to have you. You don't have to put up with rude, stupid or overly bad players. If you get people being rude stop healing them, they'll learn. Same goes with zergers or idiots who keep dying. Clerics are always wanted so it's insanely easy to get a group...so drop whenever you want.

Oh and btw levels 9-11 are the toughest for a cleric. After you get aura at lvl 12 healing and mana conservation gets way way easier. Things should be on the up and up for you.

[Havok.cry]

I want to add that as you take note of the ones who run off on their own, seperate them into two groups. The first group is the ones who die and whine. The second group are ones who can handle themselves and will generally make your job easier. They are worthy of your heals still, and will generally facilitate any help they need from you.

[PNellesen]

I want to add that as you take note of the ones who run off on their own, seperate them into two groups. The first group is the ones who die and whine. The second group are ones who can handle themselves and will generally make your job easier. They are worthy of your heals still, and will generally facilitate any help they need from you.

Ah, good point. The second group will also usually make their way back to you WITHOUT kiting the entire dungeon when they need some healing, then take off again after spending a few seconds in your aura. And if they do happen to die, they'll say "oops, my bad. Please don't waste your SP raising me, just take my stone to the next shrine".

[morticianjohn]

Have a melee in the party summon a hire rather than taking a 6th pugger.

Hirelings are much maligned but they drink pots and spam heals decently most of the time. In addition they can raise dead so it saves you mana even if you park them at the entrance and only summon them to you between fights.