A new channel for learning raids

[Noopleh]

I ALWAYS send a tell explaining why I declined someone Don't want anyone hatin' on me:P

Pele has declined your request.
Pele tells you, 'sorry, you don't fap to llamas'

I can so see that happening!

[~Quilny]

You've reported my characters, and flame a lot of the people who are in this channel. Why are you posting here? We used to be on speaking terms, and I liked you as a person back then.

I would appreciate if you didn't post further in this thread.

was trying to send a PM but it isnt working so i will just say this, I do not know who you are and i do not know why i reported you but if I did I'm sure it was for good cause. Also I was trying to give you a compliment because I liked this thread and what you are doing for the server.

[Isharah]

Trololololol~

You've reported my characters, and flame a lot of the people who are in this channel. Why are you posting here? We used to be on speaking terms, and I liked you as a person back then.

I would appreciate if you didn't post further in this thread.

"Get off my lawn, you're breathing my air!" Welcome to the club, Massiv. Sadly this channel is off-limits to minmaxing elitists such as the two of us. And while I'm at this anyway, might as well shed a point...

If you are interested in helping Orien become a better server, not just gearing yourself out at the cost of others ...

Oh, the irony. Tank tax, anyone? 30 eChrono completions is a lot of scrolls don't you think?

Basically, you can PUG everything and this channel is proving it.

Been proven a long time ago. And again and again and again... Got screenshots, Lorm?

Cheers to the unnamed heroes. Signing-off. *bow*

[Noopleh]

snip



snip

that's a eLoB with friends, not a pug. Learn the definition of that term before using it.

there, even your bud Deneria says it:

Well fine but what do u call it when the party is consisted of

2 Rego Vitae
2 The Myths
1 Legend
3 Phoenix Knights
1 Crusaders of Justice
1 Defenders
1 Soko Irlicht
1 Unguilded

XD

Friends perhaps?

[Isharah]

that's a eLoB with friends, not a pug. Learn the definition of that term before using it.

*learns the definition*

Yep, it's a PUG.

Filtered though, but I guess it's a given considering the difficulty of the raid.

Now whether it so happened that the people who expressed interest in joining are friends or not is a different story. I'm sorry it's not our fault that we have a handful of friends. But the group was open to everyone who expressed interest and was actually useful (i.e. minxmaxing elitists -- phrase of the day ).

[Noopleh]

Then please, omniscient master, explain to me what a PUG is if not a 12-person group composed of people from 8 guilds.

(It is not my fault that I have a lot of friends. )

Omniscient? Not really.

Guilds mean nothing to be honest. You knew each other in that group, or almost everyone.
Now, I open an eLoB LFM and accept people I do not know and have never heard from and that are most likely non epic geared. I set off with my eager-to-die bunch of sacrificial suckers and somehow manage to complete. Only then I could come and brag about it on the forums

EDIT: Saw your reply:

Pick up Group

A somewhat random or loose group that came together not through guilds or friends lists.

[Isharah]

Now, I open an eLoB LFM and accept people I do not know and have never heard from and that are most likely non epic geared.

Sounds like something a nub would do.

Which is precisely why people lose faith in PUGs -- because just because it's a PUG, people think you NEED to bring in gimps.

An insult to the Orien PUG community IMO, because there are so many PUGers out there who outskill and outgear guilded people.

P.S.
I was in the middle of editing my post when you quoted me, bleh.

*edit*
Yup, not guildies, not friends list. IT'S A PUG! XD

[Noopleh]

Sounds like something a nub would do.

Which is precisely why people lose faith in PUGs -- because just because it's a PUG, people think you NEED to bring in gimps.

An insult to the Orien PUG community IMO, because there are so many PUGers out there who outskill and outgear guilded people.

P.S.
I was in the middle of editing my post when you quoted me, bleh.

Like it or not, that's pugging.

yeah i can name a few real legendary pugers here in orien, and i mean real pugs, not the "friends & co" kind of groups.

yeah if people continue to be selfish ******s, off course the pug community will get worse. if no one is ready to teach em and sacrifice resources.

Actually did a eChrono on my next to none heal amp barbarian yesterday, with at least 3 new people, had 2 friends in the group rest where picked up. one of the cleric had 340 hp and 1800 sp, guess what? he had 1/3 of his Sp left at the end of the raid, and yeah he was from a guild i can't remember and was a adventurer build.

it's your faith in pug that sucks. Help people learn the raids, help them gear up and get experience. How can you ungimp yourself if you don't get to run eraids?

edit: godamnit, keep posting after i see your edits XD

[Isharah]

Like it or not, that's pugging.

Beg to disagree.

yeah i can name a few real legendary pugers here in orien, and i mean real pugs, not the "friends & co" kind of groups.

I'd say something but let's just say... you already know it.

yeah if people continue to be selfish ******s, off course the pug community will get worse. if no one is ready to teach em and sacrifice resources.

If you pay me a scroll for each eChrono I heal, I would.

Lol jk. I agree with this, but I just hope the people teaching really have an idea how to develop both the player and the toon... Not just explain and explain without making sure that they are being understood.

Actually did a eChrono on my next to none heal amp barbarian yesterday, with at least 3 new people, had 2 friends in the group rest where picked up. one of the cleric had 340 hp and 1800 sp, guess what? he had 1/3 of his Sp left at the end of the raid, and yeah he was from a guild i can't remember and was a adventurer build.

Common sight.

it's your faith in pug that sucks.

Yes, my faith in PUGs suck. Which is why we've spent the last few months of our time in DDO teaching people eChrono, LoB, eLoB, and Abbot. I must admit though that we aren't as active in PUGing these past few weeks because we are busy with building another tank to use in PUGs.

By the way. If you don't remember, Rily and I were the people who brought you to one of your first Abbots. You were on Searth on his first life, and you were scouting. You had no idea what the puzzles looked like back then.

Help people learn the raids, help them gear up and get experience. How can you ungimp yourself if you don't get to run eraids?

Misconception.

IMO this is how it should go -- and I'm sure a lot of people will agree with me. Before you go into raids, make sure you are already geared enough to actually contribute to the party -- as simple as a +6 con item, GFL, heavy fort, reasonable weapon... Stuff you can't get from raids anyway.

Once you are ready for raiding, run raids and get your raid gear. These are the named BTC items that 80% of the capped toons in the server run around in.

Once you have your key raid gear (usually just 1-2 pieces), that's the only time when you would ideally step into epic raids.

[Noopleh]

yeah i remember my first abbot, i sucked because the youtube vid i looked up was showing basically the "old fashioned way" to do it, didn't know could just jump in the water. thanked you before and i'll thank you again for my 1st abbot.

After pugging in orien you really should know that pug = gimps most of the time. But even gimps can learn and become and actually not suck.

Seems we have different concept of gimps, "as simple as a +6 con item, GFL, heavy fort, reasonable weapon... Stuff you can't get from raids anyway." i except anyone at level 20 to have that kind of gear. By gimp i ment tactic and gameplay wise.

edit: my forum skillz are obviously not as good as yours, the multi quote thing puzzles me so it's kinda confusing, sorry about that

[Isharah]

But even gimps can learn and become and actually not suck.

I still have faith in this, it's always a nice sight seeing people grow from almost nothing to raid leaders.

Seems we have different concept of gimps, "as simple as a +6 con item, GFL, heavy fort, reasonable weapon... Stuff you can't get from raids anyway." i except anyone at level 20 to have that kind of gear. By gimp i ment tactic and gameplay wise.

I've encountered many level 20 people who don't have these items -- not because they can't get them, but because they didn't know that they were important.

Well if that was your definition of gimp, I must agree that pug = gimps most of the time. XD

*edit*
After trolling lots of threads, you ought to learn these things.

[Noopleh]

I still have faith in this, it's always a nice sight seeing people grow from almost nothing to raid leaders.



I've encountered many level 20 people who don't have these items -- not because they can't get them, but because they didn't know that they were important.

Well if that was your definition of gimp, I must agree that pug = gimps most of the time. XD

*edit*
After trolling lots of threads, you ought to learn these things.

Me, troll? Never. I like to call them witty comments.

[eclipse668]

Omniscient?

Omnisniffent or not. I'd like you to leave my toons name out of this.

Ish if you don't like the guys aproach to the channel leave and let him be. I'd hate to see this (rather good) attempt turned into a trollstampede because ppl have the urge to put their stamp on everything.
You won't turn inexperienced ppl into progamers just by telling them what to do (and not to). its in the process of gathering experience and the failing that you/they will eventualy come to value resources like plat and time. Leave them the freedom to gather those experiences?!

[Noopleh]

[QUOTE=eclipse668;4422338]Omnisniffent or not. I'd like you to leave my toons name out of this.

[QUOTE]

what the hell are you on about?

that was prolly sarcasm but i missed it...

[deahamlet]

*snip*
IMO this is how it should go -- and I'm sure a lot of people will agree with me. Before you go into raids, make sure you are already geared enough to actually contribute to the party -- as simple as a +6 con item, GFL, heavy fort, reasonable weapon... Stuff you can't get from raids anyway.

Once you are ready for raiding, run raids and get your raid gear. These are the named BTC items that 80% of the capped toons in the server run around in.

Once you have your key raid gear (usually just 1-2 pieces), that's the only time when you would ideally step into epic raids.

I do not see why this is so controversial. I tell people this and it's like I insult them.

I dragged my heels getting to 20 from 18 so I could learn how to better play. So I could gear up my toon first. I capped and then it was another month before I ran epic quests. I only accidentally stepped into an epic raid too early (yes, I was one of those noobz who didn't realize eDQ meant EPIC not elite). I ran raids at normal for the longest time.

Once I had my GS HP item I started stepping into some epic raids. Some I still haven't stepped into.

Nowadays my toons take less time to hit raids and epics because I have certain gear to pass them, I have high crafting levels (which means I can efficiently slot all the key survival things like Heavy Fort, GFL, CON+6), and honestly have better knowledge of the game.

I took it slow. When I advise people to take it slow it's not "do as I say, not as I do"... and yet people are always outraged. You don't need X and Y, they say... and then I step into any difficult raid and the tank is so not tanky that he cannot survive with just Heal, Free heal, Heal Scroll cycle. Or step into an epic raid where DPS is so slow 3 healers are out of mana and potting at the end.

You DO need to be kind enough to your fellow raiders to make your toon epic raid ready.
Because if you do not, someone else will have to make up for you not being prepared.
Maybe the healers have to expend more resources.
Maybe the other DPS has to have uber DPS to pull the raid through.
Maybe someone has to give up DPS to debuff the boss so you can manage to hit.
Maybe the arcane has to suddenly throw every buff and debuff in existence so you stay alive and hit boss rather than focus on helping with DPS.

I have met the people who really... 3-4 of them could seriously be doing the raid alone... and they can accept anyone really because everyone else is quasi-piking by comparison. But why is it not SHAMEFUL to be a piker, but it's downright criminal to tell people to work on their gear?

Cannot find GFL items? There's certain chains with amazing random and named loot: Harbringer/Reign of Madness, Inspiration Quarter, Dreaming Dark. GS HP items also give a ton of HP. Yes, Minos requires some grind... not really. I ran to flag my toon for Abbot and ran around maybe farming 2-3 times a week for the skiver and ended up with no less than 40 shreds in 2 weeks. 2 hours per week + complete Necro 4 + repeat Vol 4-6 times.

[Isharah]

Ish if you don't like the guys aproach to the channel leave and let him be.

I can't see how I am doing otherwise.

But the forums is a place to share thoughts and whatnot, I suppose I am using it for the purpose it serves.

You won't turn inexperienced ppl into progamers just by telling them what to do (and not to). its in the process of gathering experience and the failing that you/they will eventualy come to value resources like plat and time. Leave them the freedom to gather those experiences?!

I'm sure you know that I know that. I don't understand why you are even saying this.

Well, whatever. Seeing that my thoughts are being taken into offense, I will retreat to my minmaxing elitist corner.

Cheers.

[Noopleh]

I will retreat to my minmaxing elitist corner.

Cheers.

It's a shark infested corner, good luck!

[Madryoch]

Omnisniffent or not. I'd like you to leave my toons name out of this.

Ish if you don't like the guys aproach to the channel leave and let him be. I'd hate to see this (rather good) attempt turned into a trollstampede because ppl have the urge to put their stamp on everything.
You won't turn inexperienced ppl into progamers just by telling them what to do (and not to). its in the process of gathering experience and the failing that you/they will eventualy come to value resources like plat and time. Leave them the freedom to gather those experiences?!

Obviously what has been said before is that while u can't turn em into a programmer with just saying what needs to be done, it is also evident that without telling em the right things(basics) they need to know they ll not learn being one cause they ll be unable to get the experience or cause they will be unable to understand the concepts and principles.

So no when people misinform then u can't talk about (good attempts) .Though I admit there are certain people in there that are decent who have been running very good pugs even before this channel was up.. On top of that this thread is offering little atm other than pating each other on the back mentioning the good things about it and ''forgeting'' to mention certain things in it(cough tank tax ... cough) then proclaiming that it's made to help each other out and teach people. I am not commenting in most cases because I kinda know what audience is going to type here beforehand.

I am also going to mention this incident while i was still in the channel. I made abbot raid with title "first timers welcome". A raid a *certain person* hadn't done before. He joined, and then typed in user chat that everyone should look what he is doing for them . As in that person was trying to take credit and show off to the channel members who while he didn't know already, were also in the party. In fact one of these members was posting the raid. So let's not talk about personal stamps here please.

It also came to my attention that people don't take advice from more experienced people. And i am not talking about copying it but at least accept alternatives consider them and if u come to the conclusion that you still don't agree go ur way. Instead they would say things like if u don't like it leave and don't be dramatic which i find a very offensive reply especialy when advice wasn't ''offered'' repeatedly.

People who are saying that they consider this a good try are people who stick to words choosing to overlook the bad things that could be WAY better and not people who want to improve. Also Consider this ... if a channel lasts long enough to make a community what's the difference between that and a guild? The orange (default) color of the chat letters compared to the light blue ? Or is it perhaps different than calling people from friends list?

[Noopleh]

People who are saying that they consider this a good try are people who stick to words choosing to overlook the bad things that could be WAY better and not people who want to improve. Also Consider this ... if a channel lasts long enough to make a community what's the difference between that and a guild? The orange (default) color of the chat letters compared to the light blue ? Or is it perhaps different than calling people from friends list?

This here is absolutely true.

[EvilI]

[...] and ''forgeting'' to mention certain things in it(cough tank tax ... cough) then proclaiming that it's made to help each other out [...]

OK, this is the second time this is mentioned. For the clarity of argument, could someone spell out what you mean by this?