The Flavored Tank

[Viciouspika]

Just an idea for a self-healing tank. I was thinking of a FVS/fighter 14/6 split or a FVS/pally with the same split. Please give me an input to improve this toon including spell, feat selection, and enhancements.

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Brickhouse 
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(6 Fighter \ 14 Favored Soul) 
Hit Points: 314
Spell Points: 1211 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 12
Will: 18

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    18
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          9                    10
Wisdom               16                    20
Charisma             13                    14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance              -1                     0
Bluff                 1                     2
Concentration         2                    20
Diplomacy             1                     2
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                1                     2
Heal                  3                     5
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            3                    18
Jump                  5                    12
Listen                3                     5
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  3                     5
Swim                  3                     4
Tumble               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Sovereign Host


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Favored Soul)


Level 5 (Favored Soul)


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance I
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 8 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 10 (Favored Soul)


Level 11 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Acid


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 13 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance II
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion III
Enhancement: Half-Elf Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wisdom I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III


Level 14 (Favored Soul)


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Favored Soul Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante III
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Smiting III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Smiting II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness IV

Tell me what you think. Thanks for your input

[Isharah]

A few points:

1. Do you intend to keep aggro with spells or with weapon hits? I suggest concentrating more on boosting one of the two, instead of trying to spread out and focus on both.
2. Also, for tanking, I strongly suggest 6 pally instead. There are few things that increase spell threat, the only thing other than DoS that I know is the Anathema ring.
3. Why 14 favored soul? Why Not 12FvS/6Pally/2Ftr or something similar?''

Cheers.

[Matuse]

Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation

...why?

With only 14 levels of FvS, you aren't going to be doing much in the way of offensive spellcasting. You're barely increasing your wisdom, so you aren't going for DCs, but then you're taking DC-improving feats.

Spell pen checks are based on caster level. With a 14 base, you'll basically need a 20 in order to crack the SR on even the gimpiest monsters. For the ones that aren't gimpy, even a 20 won't be enough (there's no auto-success on spell pen checks).

About the only spell you could be taking the Evocation feats for is Blade Barrier, and it really doesn't need it. They aren't going to make up for piddling wisdom; you'll be doing half damage either way.

I would drop all 3 of those feats. Take Empower, put Imp Crit in much, MUCH earlier, and then put in 2 more melee related feats. Options would include:

Bullheaded
Skill Focus: Intim
Power Attack
Improved Sunder
Exotic Proficiency: Bastard Sword + THF (for glancing blows with a bastard sword)
Weapon Specialization
Dodge

[Viciouspika]

Isharah,
1. I was thinking of using spells to hold agro while turtling at higher levels, but based on Matuse's statements that may be next to impossible given the low spell penetration and lower level DPS for spells.

2. I was thinking of 6pally also. However, I currently have a pally thats is taking tons of damage in amrath due to evil damage and didnt want to have that problem again.

3. I havent seen to many builds for the 12 FVS/6 Pally/2 Fighter. If you know the link I would gladly check it out.

Matuse,
Yea, I wasnt sure if I would be able to hold agro with only 14lvls of FVS. The reason, I back loaded the fighter was tanking isnt really useful for early lvls, but only useful in later lvls.

Do you think with more melee feats it could become an affective tank?

Have never made a tank or FVS, so I would appreciate anymore input you have.

[Braegan]

I've considered something along these lines a few times. And each time I come to the same conclusion, pure 20 FvS.

If you are going to be tanking thru spells you are going to use alot of mana for the duration of a raid boss. For example normal LoB when I tank with my FvS, without the use of archers, I will go thru about a full bar (2800 ish SP). 12 or 14 FvS mana pool means you will most likely be chugging pots everytime you tank.

Capstone healing. If you build with some decent heal amp, free cure lights will carry you very far.

DR 10 isn't anything to sneeze at, esp if you are regenning some mana against archers.

And of course the fact that you can fill the role of primary healer when you don't need to tank or offensive caster when the need arises.

Just because you are a pure class does not mean you cannot be multi-fauceted.

[Matuse]

1. I was thinking of using spells to hold agro while turtling at higher levels, but based on Matuse's statements that may be next to impossible given the low spell penetration and lower level DPS for spells.

You can do this with Divine Punishment and Intimidate. DP does not have a save and damage spells do not check spell resistance.

You want spell penetration for instakills and debuffs, neither of which are going to be what you use.

2. I was thinking of 6pally also. However, I currently have a pally thats is taking tons of damage in amrath due to evil damage and didnt want to have that problem again.

Paladins are not any more vulnerable to specific damage than anyone else. There are monsters who use anarchic and unholy, but they are VERY rare. Maybe Keradi in Bastion Of Power uses them (she's a marilith), but that's about it.

Yea, I wasnt sure if I would be able to hold agro with only 14lvls of FVS. The reason, I back loaded the fighter was tanking isnt really useful for early lvls, but only useful in later lvls.

I don't have any particular issue with your choice of level ups, just your feats. You would want Fighter at the start to unlock Intim right away so you're not wasting skillpoints in it, after that it's really up to you. FvS gives the nice ability to maintain some aggro while being a turtle by maintaining a triple stacked Divine Punishment. It has all kinds of aggro generation to it. The damage won't be the absolute top, but it will still do quite well (as long as you run Empower and Maximize), particularly once something beats on you a few times and earns itself a couple tiers of AoV vulnerability curse.

Do you think with more melee feats it could become an affective tank?

Effective tanking really boils down to 2 things:
1) Surviving the damage coming at you.
2) Making sure the monster focuses on you.

With Improved Shield Mastery, self healing, and inherent FvS resists, you should be alright in the surviving department. Yes, it would obviously be a lot better to have Defender III, but that's just not going to be feasible here.

Divine Punishment can go a reasonable way towards keeping aggro via damage, but you also want some intimidate. I'd drop Str down to 14, bump Int to at least 10 (probably 12) and use those extra skillpoints to max out Intim, and buff your Balance. Concentration could use some points, but no need to go crazy. Once you have Quicken running, Concentration becomes essentially pointless...there's no way you're going to be using scrolls while main tanking, and without a HUGE conc. score, you wouldn't succeed anyway past about level 10. Stuff just starts hitting too hard.

What kind of AC are you expecting to get? Without a Defender PrE or Monk levels to inflate AC with Wisdom, you probably shouldn't expect to reach the ~100 AC area, but you should be able to get a respectable amount.

[Viciouspika]

Braegan, I have only played mutliclass melees for survivablility. So, I thought I would have do that with this toon. I also like the diversity of multiclassing cause it takes a certain balance to not completely gimp the character(challenge accepted). I also like flavor builds.

Matuse, again thank you for your input. Since I have never made a caster before, I was going off the pure builds I had seen on the forums for fvs with the four additional feats granted by 6 levels of fighter.

DP was the one spell I was thinking of using to maintain agro. Along with melee dps and intimidate.

As far as what AC I was trying to achieve? I dont currently know. Most high AC toons, I've seen on the forums, only maintain the high AC for a couple of minutes and requires excessive farming for exact gear. Tanking bosses usually takes longer than then that. The only form of AC I have ever used on any of my toons is displacement and subdued backstab(iirc). I was also thinking of using mostly guards and DR from easier to get items and shields.

I also like your idea for increasing INT for more skills to max intimidate, concentration, and a moderate balance.

For the eleven feats this toon gets, I was thinking of taking(in no particular order): quicken, maximize, empower, extend, toughness, shield mastery, improved shield mastery, improved shield bash, exotic weapon: bastardsword, thf, and improved thf.

Base attributes of 14/8/14/12/16/14 with current pally dilly, or 15/8/14/12/16/12 with a monk dilly for more healing amp and wis to ac bonus.

Thank you for your continued input.

[unbongwah]

Normally I don't make build recommendations based on future updates, but with the upcoming changes to Enhancements - and in particular the addition of extra racial PrEs - what about a dwarf FvS tank? You'll be able to add Dwarven Defender (in theory). My first thought is to stay pure for DR 10 capstone + dmg mitigation from Shield Mastery, though feats become an issue. Perhaps WIS-based with SM, Toughness, Emp, Max, Emp Heal, Quicken, and Heighten? Though not sure how you'd get Intim high enough if it's not a class skill; also, SD threat bonus from stance only applies to melee, correct?