rate my warchanter build

[decease]

i have two warchanter build, not sure which one i should choose. please help me choosing one. thanks
p.s. if you have better build please let me know. thanks


build 1: THF warchanter

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
(2 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 15 Bard) 
Hit Points: 280
Spell Points: 468 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 16
Will: 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 21                   23
Dexterity             8                  8                    8
Constitution         16                 16                   16
Intelligence         14                 14                   14
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma             14                 14                   14

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               3                 22                   25
Bluff                 2                  2                    2
Concentration         5                 25                   28
Diplomacy             2                  2                    2
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                6                 25                   28
Heal                  1                  1                    1
Hide                  3                 12                   12
Intimidate            2                  2                    6
Jump                  7                 29                   29
Listen               -1                 -1                   -1
Move Silently         3                 22                   22
Open Lock            n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a               20                   20
Repair                2                  2                    2
Search                2                  2                    2
Spot                  3                  6                    6
Swim                  3                  6                    6
Tumble                3                  3                    3
Use Magic Device      6                 25                   25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Bard)
Spell (1): Focusing Chant


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 7 (Bard)
Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors


Level 8 (Bard)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Rage


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Spell (1): Feather Fall
Spell (2): Invisibility


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (2): Glitterdust
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Good Hope


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Spell (3): Haste


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Break Enchantment
Spell (4): Dimension Door


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Spell (5): Shadow Walk


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante II
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante III
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Balance III
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration III
Enhancement: Improved Haggle I
Enhancement: Improved Haggle II
Enhancement: Improved Haggle III
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III

build 2 TWF warchanter:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
(2 Fighter \ 15 Bard \ 3 Favored Soul) 
Hit Points: 286
Spell Points: 782 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 17
Will: 13

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             14                 19                   21
Dexterity            16                 17                   17
Constitution         16                 16                   16
Intelligence          8                  8                    8
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma             14                 14                   14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               7                 26                   30
Bluff                 2                  2                    2
Concentration         7                 26                   30
Diplomacy             2                  2                    2
Disable Device       n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                  2                    2
Heal                 -1                 -1                   -1
Hide                  3                  3                    3
Intimidate            2                  2                    6
Jump                  6                 12                   12
Listen               -1                 -1                   -1
Move Silently         3                  3                    3
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform               6                 20                   20
Repair               -1                 -1                   -1
Search               -1                 -1                   -1
Spot                 -1                 -1                   -1
Swim                  2                  5                    5
Tumble                n/a               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      6                 25                   25

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Sovereign Host


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Favored Soul)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante II
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante III
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Balance III
Enhancement: Improved Balance IV
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration III
Enhancement: Improved Concentration IV
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III

p.s. please help me complete this build, going to redo my old warchanter. thanks

[cru121]

some skills and enhancement choices are abysmal

You don't need move silently, hide, less jump. With 3 rogue levels and starting Int 14, you should be able to fit in trap skills (requires careful planning). You definitely should max UMD and Perform.

Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Balance III
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration III
Enhancement: Improved Haggle I
Enhancement: Improved Haggle II
Enhancement: Improved Haggle III

[decease]

some skills and enhancement choices are abysmal

You don't need move silently, hide, less jump. With 3 rogue levels and starting Int 14, you should be able to fit in trap skills (requires careful planning). You definitely should max UMD and Perform.

Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Balance III
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration III
Enhancement: Improved Haggle I
Enhancement: Improved Haggle II
Enhancement: Improved Haggle III

well balance and concentration always come in handy.. i did max umd, but not perform. because i see them as useless beyond rank 18(for inspire heroic)

i choose move silently and hide because invisible i choose in spell list.. which will allow me sneak through certain quest while solo.

btw.. am not sure about rogue skill, i mean sure i can do it. but thats basically rogue's job.. not sure if i should get involved. plus carrying all the disable gear is kinda troublesome.. XD

[voodoogroves]

The FVS split isn't that common - what is it bringing you?

The fighter/rogue split is very common (though 16/2/2 has the merits of Otto's Irresistilble Dance).

The issue with traps is that I'm pretty sure every 15/3/2 or 15/2/2 with rogue in it I've ever seen can do the taps. Splashing rogue on a skill-have class is an indicator the player CAN do traps, and that will be the expecation. It isn't like bard is a 2-skill class like Paladin or Fighter - it has plenty of skill points to cover traps. You may find you join groups and people assume you, like every other bard splash, can handle them.

Nothing is saying you must, but be prepared to upset people's expectations and possibly make them cranky.

[decease]

The FVS split isn't that common - what is it bringing you?

The fighter/rogue split is very common (though 16/2/2 has the merits of Otto's Irresistilble Dance).

The issue with traps is that I'm pretty sure every 15/3/2 or 15/2/2 with rogue in it I've ever seen can do the taps. Splashing rogue on a skill-have class is an indicator the player CAN do traps, and that will be the expecation. It isn't like bard is a 2-skill class like Paladin or Fighter - it has plenty of skill points to cover traps. You may find you join groups and people assume you, like every other bard splash, can handle them.

Nothing is saying you must, but be prepared to upset people's expectations and possibly make them cranky.

well if i do trap i will be ask to do lock as well.... plus all the thief tool..already got several spell component in bag, really don't want to perpare another set of disable gear.

plus if i do trap i will not be able to do haggle.. sigh..

[Infant]

I have a 16/2r/2f warchanter which I am going to TR into a similar build soon. From my point of view:

Trapskills: Are optional. You can choose to get them or not. However, if you invest 4 points into OL at creation, you will be able to open a lot of doors (with an item).

Perform: Max it. Fascinate is very good. Especially if soloing. And you want to make your fascinate land 95% on VoN bases. Also, drow shamen in the Lava Caves have extremely high Will saves, so you want as high perform as possible.

In General: You don't need 14 Charisma. 12 is perfectly fine to start with (+2 tome +6 item = 20). Your pally dilly caps at +5. EDIT stupid advice is stupid. You need at least 13 for pally dilly.

Hide/MS can be a viable tactic, I never tried it. However, I wouldn't spend AP into it.

Skills: Max Perform, Concentration, UMD. Everything else is bonus and depends on your playstyle. Jump can be useful for leveling, but isn't a must. If you decide to go for these Core skills, you can dump intelligence and drop Insightful REflexes and take Str/DEx instead. Free Feat can be used for SF:UMD (swap-free UMD without a GS item), Maximize,...

Level Split: I don't know what 3 Fvs gives you. Go 3 Rogue for more SA and evasion. But ultimately, I would recommend going 16/2/2. Irresistable Dance is a very powerful tool.

Infant

[decease]

I have a 16/2r/2f warchanter which I am going to TR into a similar build soon. From my point of view:

Trapskills: Are optional. You can choose to get them or not. However, if you invest 4 points into OL at creation, you will be able to open a lot of doors (with an item).

Perform: Max it. Fascinate is very good. Especially if soloing. And you want to make your fascinate land 95% on VoN bases. Also, drow shamen in the Lava Caves have extremely high Will saves, so you want as high perform as possible.

In General: You don't need 14 Charisma. 12 is perfectly fine to start with (+2 tome +6 item = 20). Your pally dilly caps at +5. EDIT stupid advice is stupid. You need at least 13 for pally dilly.

Hide/MS can be a viable tactic, I never tried it. However, I wouldn't spend AP into it.

Skills: Max Perform, Concentration, UMD. Everything else is bonus and depends on your playstyle. Jump can be useful for leveling, but isn't a must. If you decide to go for these Core skills, you can dump intelligence and drop Insightful REflexes and take Str/DEx instead. Free Feat can be used for SF:UMD (swap-free UMD without a GS item), Maximize,...

Level Split: I don't know what 3 Fvs gives you. Go 3 Rogue for more SA and evasion. But ultimately, I would recommend going 16/2/2. Irresistable Dance is a very powerful tool.

Infant

thx for the advice.. the thing is if i drop int and went dex i won't have enough skill point for hide and move. so i don't really have much choice there. i assume with self buff and great silent move gear, it should be enough to sneak in end game.

oh and 3 fvs level give me bonus when using sword
Favored by the Sovereign Host + Child of the Sovereign Host + the Sovereign Host enhancement from pal dil. i get total of +2 ab +1 damage which stack with everything.

[Infant]

thx for the advice.. the thing is if i drop int and went dex i won't have enough skill point for hide and move. so i don't really have much choice there. i assume with self buff and great silent move gear, it should be enough to sneak in end game.

oh and 3 fvs level give me bonus when using sword
Favored by the Sovereign Host + Child of the Sovereign Host + the Sovereign Host enhancement from pal dil. i get total of +2 ab +1 damage which stack with everything.

Rogue will give you more in sneak attack. AND Longswords are definetely not the best weapon around.

[voodoogroves]

To be effective in melee you need to either swing a big two hander, or take the TWF feats.

If you don't want to do traps / etc. why not a simple Half Elf TWF with rogue dilettante for extra sneak damage?

[decease]

Rogue will give you more in sneak attack. AND Longswords are definetely not the best weapon around.

ture, but i solo alot. so sa seem to be a bit useless.. since i can't cc with neither of the build.

To be effective in melee you need to either swing a big two hander, or take the TWF feats.

If you don't want to do traps / etc. why not a simple Half Elf TWF with rogue dilettante for extra sneak damage?

the rogue level are for evasion.. i want monk, but monk and bard don't get along nicely..XD