VoD - Reimberse your healers, will have more healers running it

[5chinoble]

Was running VoD on hard the other day, which I tend to stay away from as its always a drain on SP pots, personaly I won't join a VoD group on my FvS unless I have at least 15 SP pots.

So we run a VoD myself and another FvS as healers, i've wised up with it now and tend to as much as i can use heal scrolls to keep the main tank alive, and throw a mass heal now and again on the lot fighting Sully, and when on scroll cooldown i'll top up with a cure if needed, or if tank takes a sudden spike, will throw a heal. so as much mana conservation as i think i can do for a hard VoD raid at the moment. (any other recomendations would be appreciated).

We start the raid, think the leader of the group shouts dont worry what ever pots you use I will reimberse, excelent i think, we continue to complete the VoD raid, used 96 heal scrolls and 8-9 sp pots plus a baubble charge, which is fair enough on a PUG hard VoD.

I did ask at the end if i would get any pots, unfortunately not sure where the leader went (maybe they forgot i wont be judgemental), but got 0 pots in return, which is fair enough its your pots your welcome to do whatever you want, but what that means for everyone else, theres a potential healer who can heal in your VoD raid wont be able to until they get back to their 15 SP pot storage from quest rewards, my timer may be 3 days, but it'll take longer to get that stock of pots back upto what I think is required for a VoD raid.

So for all you people doing VoD reimberse your healers with pots, so in three days they are ready to run a VoD with you again, i've become very reluctant to join VoD raids due to it being such a drain on pots, and unless you get some back, its usually a while before your resources are ready to run again, but than you always ask, is the outocme worth the resources put in ?

Dont get me wrong, any other raid If i use a pot i put it down to bad mana management on my half (exluding elite/epic raids), but VoD hard+ is different.

[Chai]

That total of resources is pretty large for a VOD raid. Did the other FvS use equivilent resources?

[5chinoble]

That total of resources is pretty large for a VOD raid. Did the other FvS use equivilent resources?

From what was said at the end, i think the other FvS used a lot more pots than I did, not sure if they used scroll healing at all though

[Qzipoun]

Was running VoD on hard the other day, which I tend to stay away from as its always a drain on SP pots, personaly I won't join a VoD group on my FvS unless I have at least 15 SP pots.

You should be going into VoD with 0 pots*. If someone is a mana sink you let them die and move on...

*Ok ok, have some in case things go bad for silly reasons (lag, sully basically dead etc...) but IMO, a VoD run that consumes more than one pot is a failed run

[Zinruko]

If you drink sp pots while running VoD you're doing it wrong...

[Chette]

Was running VoD on hard the other day, which I tend to stay away from as its always a drain on SP pots, personaly I won't join a VoD group on my FvS unless I have at least 15 SP pots.

What the blank??? A competent cleric can solo heal a competent group of melees through VoD without casting a single spell. Aura during the boss fight, bursts during the orthons. I don't know what the heck you, or the people you group with, are doing, a FvS should have no problem, especially with another FvS along.

[Monkey-Boy]

Just out of curiosity . . . what was tanking?

[Nysrock]

I agree with others. You should not be using that many pots in VoD Hard. I have been in an Elite run that went south at one point and I think I still only used 3-4.

Just make sure everyone realizes that they have to stay grouped up if they want healed and just cast Mass Heal. If some people are constantly running off and dying then you are better off leaving them dead. After 2 or 3 deaths they are more likely to die again fast with the death penalty going anyways.

As long as you have a solid tank that hold agro then you shouldn't even have any deaths.

Sorry for your bad experience and hopefully you find a better group next time.

[Kmnh]

If you are healing VoD, bring scrolls, check the tank on myddo and ask what his healing amp is. You should never need a pot in there on a FvS, unless things go horribly wrong.

[MeliCat]

If you're pure FvS are you making use of your capstone?

Also I find a decent CC arcane in there can make a world of difference. Things like cloud kill too. And blur - with displ used at the large trash mobs spawns at start and beginning. The less damage the party is taking the less you have to heal. So take a good hard look at the arcanes before you join. Good place to practice not overhealing, efficient healing and appropriate buffing I find for me when I take a new divine in there who is not so geared.

A bad pug taking lots of damage and I can understand maybe drinking a pot but possibly not quite that many. Pretty slack of the leader to not even ask though.

I hope you get some better runs in the future :/

[MeliCat]

What the blank??? A competent cleric can solo heal a competent group of melees through VoD without casting a single spell. Aura during the boss fight, bursts during the orthons. I don't know what the heck you, or the people you group with, are doing, a FvS should have no problem, especially with another FvS along.

Chette (and anyone else rubbishing the OP) have you thought about that everyone has to start somewhere? Could you possibly post more graciously regards pot usage? How would you like it if you've never been exposed to certain ideas and someone rubbished you?

What about more positive suggestions and direction instead?

[countfitz]

What the blank??? A competent cleric can solo heal a competent group of melees through VoD without casting a single spell. Aura during the boss fight, bursts during the orthons. I don't know what the heck you, or the people you group with, are doing, a FvS should have no problem, especially with another FvS along.

Yeah, but clerics are way better than FvS.

Seriously, though, what is your capstone? A free empowered maxed capstone cure, a scroll heal with just 2 levels in AP scroll/wand mastery, and either an AC or heal amp tank and you're good 2 go. I have a feeling it was the tank. I only run hard w/ an AC tank.

[voodoogroves]

Anyone who knows me knows I only PUG raid.

Any VOD that needs that much help PROBABLY has a very under prepared tank.

I can't say I'd have drunk that many pots. I've got them, on everyone, but I wouldn't drink that many for a VOD. I'd probably let it fail.


If, however, we could plow through with just a tank and a few others, I'd maybe too it just for the fun of it.

[Chette]

Chette (and anyone else rubbishing the OP) have you thought about that everyone has to start somewhere? Could you possibly post more graciously regards pot usage? How would you like it if you've never been exposed to certain ideas and someone rubbished you?

What about more positive suggestions and direction instead?

MeliCat (and anybody else making excuses for poor playing, amongst healers, tanks, and everyone). Have you ever thought that *I* and others in that group, should not be expected to make up for the incompetence of others?

Yes, we all start somewhere, but it's not my job to make up for someone elses inability to heal, or tank, or whatever, a very easy raid.

You want a positive suggestion? I thought what I said about a cleric healing with only aura/burst was suggestion enough...

OK. Here you go.

Stop wasting your SP. Stop healing people who can't flank. Stop running with people who won't listen to instruction. Run with your guildies. Don't have a guild? Get in one.

Heal the tank and the tank only. If people are dying, it's their fault. Reform the raid without them.

[sheepface]

That is a crazy amount of resources to consider standard.

[5chinoble]

Wow maybe i should have aimed my post at the not so ideal VoD groups,

In an ideal setup most raids are fine, and can work quite easily, but in the PUG LFM scene, its very rare to get the ideal setup, you will get people who have never run it before, and people who are level 18 first time, no GS, no epic items, frequently get 200hp rogues, 300hp monks, 400hp fighters, maybe i should have clarified my post to fit this

Mana conservation, well put it this way, I wont say my mana conservation is perfect, but I was still at 75% SP while the other FvS was on a slither on their blue bar (I did at this point think its going to fail and i wont use pots, but its at this point the leader said pots will be reimbersed). about not raising the ones that keep dying, I learnt that a long time ago, i let the 2 that kept dying stay dead

This post isnt aimed for the Guild/Private VoD groups, more the general PUG LFM's, and I have run many a pug VoD, on my bard, barb, Sorc, wizzy, FvS, i'm not sure if we're playing on the same server or even same game, but with over 50 VoD hards combined on all my toons (I usually stop doing VoD after i get the items i'm looking for), i can count on 1 hand where I've been in a PUG VoD (hard +) where the healer hasnt used a pot.

We are all talking about Vision of Destruction on hard with a random pug group right ?

I dont really class it as a bad experiance as we did complete it at the end (and i have had much worse VoDs), What i'm trying to say is, if your running a random PUG VoD hard, and you want healers to join your group, just help them out at the end so they in three days can run with you again ?

[Enoach]

While I agree, even a Hard VoD run should not require the resources that you and the other FvS put out to help complete.

Suggestions

• Heal scrolls during non-chaotic moments
• Mass Cure Moderate Scrolls for group healing on Sulu Back <- If more is needed - Comment on how they should be on his back, If they can see his eyes they are doing it wrong.
• Cap'd FvS with free cure, use this often for spot healing
• Cleric with Aura - Keep it up
• Recommend bringing Appropriate level Superior Ardor potions as they don't require gear switching and last 3 minutes for 75% gain.
• Realize that you only deal with curses for emergency purposes - Player is disabled somehow, the rest of the time they should be handling their own curses
• Minimize healing Cursed players, don't just look at the Red Bars watch the field

As a group to help stretch the SP of the Divines

• Carry Curse removal potions
• If not the Tank - Always attack on Sulu's back - If you see his eyes your doing it wrong - This not only reduces your damage taken it also minimizes being cursed.
• Consider healing Amplification gear in place of the Hate gear when you not a tank. This will get you more out of Scrolled Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass.
• Stay close together - Don't chase the trash, where are they going anyway? Let the Trash come to you. Staying together reduces spot healing as Mass Healing will cover the needs of the group
• Orthons there should be 2 groups - 1 Group is a single person who's job is simply to keep all but the Orthon that is getting pounded busy. Group 2's job is to pound on a single Orthon till Dead and than grab the next one.
• The most important thing is to do all you can to not die, if this means you need to turtle up for a bit to recover do so. Hide behind the shield and suck on some cure potions until you can get the heal you need. Keep edging closer to the Mass Heals the whole time. Remember this - If you die in VoD there is a good chance it's not the Healers fault, take responsibility for keeping yourself alive.

What makes this raid go smoothly

• Tank that holds agro and takes little damage - Mitigation by DR or AC
• DPS that works together like a tidal wave of destruction through trash
• Good CC at the appropriate moments - Minimizes Bat damage

Another suggestion that may not be popular but my point is not to degrade anyone but to help - Switch to Normal, when you can successfully get through VoD on Normal using nothing more than scrolls and Bauble/1 potion for resources on a regular basis than move up to Hard. As a non-Tank the goal should be to get through a Normal VoD without getting killed. Tank should also get through without dying, but also being able to keep Sulu's attention the majority of the time. This is also good practice for learning how to regain agro through teleports.

[Zinruko]

Wow maybe i should have aimed my post at the not so ideal VoD groups,

In an ideal setup most raids are fine, and can work quite easily, but in the PUG LFM scene, its very rare to get the ideal setup, you will get people who have never run it before, and people who are level 18 first time, no GS, no epic items, frequently get 200hp rogues, 300hp monks, 400hp fighters, maybe i should have clarified my post to fit this

Mana conservation, well put it this way, I wont say my mana conservation is perfect, but I was still at 75% SP while the other FvS was on a slither on their blue bar (I did at this point think its going to fail and i wont use pots, but its at this point the leader said pots will be reimbersed). about not raising the ones that keep dying, I learnt that a long time ago, i let the 2 that kept dying stay dead

This post isnt aimed for the Guild/Private VoD groups, more the general PUG LFM's, and I have run many a pug VoD, on my bard, barb, Sorc, wizzy, FvS, i'm not sure if we're playing on the same server or even same game, but with over 50 VoD hards combined on all my toons (I usually stop doing VoD after i get the items i'm looking for), i can count on 1 hand where I've been in a PUG VoD (hard +) where the healer hasnt used a pot.

We are all talking about Vision of Destruction on hard with a random pug group right ?

I dont really class it as a bad experiance as we did complete it at the end (and i have had much worse VoDs), What i'm trying to say is, if your running a random PUG VoD hard, and you want healers to join your group, just help them out at the end so they in three days can run with you again ?

I believe you missed my above post. When someone can solo VoD on hard on a melee toon (Monk) I would hope a group of twelve can do it with minimal resource consumption.

[Tobril]

Hrm…sounds like some of the following needed to be better:


Tanking
A decent tank should take mostly grazing hits. This damage
is significant, but a single scroll healer or perhaps FvS capstone
should be enough to manage.

Decent weaponry
More DPS, less time spent healing.

Crowd control
Monsters stuck in webs/hula-hoops do a lot less damage.

Group positioning
Everyone should be together, including healers. Healers stay
“in the fray” so as to gain spell points from concordant opposition (not hard to make)
and the torc. (OK this item can take some time to get)

People together allows healers to use mass heal for the entry
of a devil wave or boss turning. Aura and/or scrolls (class dependent)
do the main healing.

[taurean430]

I would not rely on anyone saying that they will reimburse your pot use. In my time playing insofar, I can count on less than one hand the number of times that actually occurred. My policy is such that if I am not being handed them, I use what I have at my own discretion.

That said, VOD should require no pots at all. A short list of things I've picked up along the way include:

1. Your tank needs to be a tank. Whether hate tanking or ac tanking they need to be able to perform. Hate tanking requires decent healing amp. That way they can receive significant healing from scroll use.

2. Crowd control. If it's not there during the majority of the raid, the party takes significantly more damage from the trash mobs. It's necessary for a smooth run. Throwing a cloudkill onto the tank reduces incoming damage.

3. Your dps needs to stand outside of the cleaving range of the boss. Significant drops in red bars of dps bringers almost always means they are getting cleaved. Remind them to attack Sulu using his tail as a marker.

4. For the first and last orthon spawn have someone assigned to 'paint' the mob to be taken down. The painter can do this with an improved or regular destruction weapon. It's much easier to herd the dps to the 'blue' orthon than other methods. They drop much faster with combined dps on them. The party takes less damage. It's been mentioned that displacement on the group is very helpful here.

This works pretty good in pug settings. It's far from inclusive, but the first things that I've noticed not being done in a pug when things start going pear shaped. When these things are in place you may find that you have more than 80% of your sp bar at halftime. You may also find that you can say goodbye to excessive mana pot use. The pots you may find you need to use are for when multiple things go wrong. And only then.