Guild Incentive Program Thoughts

[S1M0N5]

With reference to the planned Guild Incentive Program listed in the Update 13 Patch 1 release notes:

Guilds

• NEW: A new guild incentive program is now available that will offer characters and guilds various benefits while this incentive event is active.
  
  • All characters in a guild will earn Bounties for reaching certain level thresholds! New players and returning players (players whose characters have not logged in for the past sixty days) will earn additional Bounties for any guild they belong to as they reach certain level thresholds:
  
  
  • • New characters who reach level 8 and have not used Veteran Status earn two Large Bounties.
    • New and returning characters who hit levels 12 and 16 earn one Large Bounty.
    • New and returning characters who hit level 20 earn two Large Bounties.
    • Non-new and non-returning characters earn a Small Bounty for their guild at levels 12, 16, and 20.
  
  
  • Large Bounties offer a 25,000 Guild Renown and five Astral Diamonds, while Small Bounties offer a 2,500 Guild Renown.
  • All Bounties are subject to guild size bonuses, and are affected by Guild Renown Elixirs.
  • Additionally, new and returning players who are grouped with fellow guild members earn +10% XP and +1 Loot. Non-new and non-returning players who are grouped with new or returning guild members earn +5% XP and +1 Loot.

I first would like to say that I don't feel that this program in its current planed state is appropriate in any way. I am not 100% sure of the intended purpose behind this program but it would appear that Turbine is attempting to increase its player base by providing an incentive to join and play and to provide incentive to former/old players that may have gone off to other games and haven't played in some time. I believe the intent was to get current guilds to reach out to new and returning players with the offer of this incentive so that those players have a guild with people to play with and may be more inclined to keep playing.

Unfortunately attempting to tempt new players to the game and tempt former/old players to return by offering them something other than a direct benefit to them won't work. In my opinion the only thing this program will do is get current players to create new accounts and add them to their guild and power-level them to 8 for the two "Large Bounty's" of 50,000 renown and 10 Astral Diamonds. While this program may get a few players to come back to help out their old guild, in all honesty if their account has been inactive for 60+ days they more than likely have been removed from whatever guild they were in to prevent adjusted guild sizes and as such won't have a guild to help when they come back.

Another issue I see is the blatant exclusion of current players in any type of reward with this. By making this reward only apply to "New and Returning Players" you are saying to current players that while you like them they are not as important as getting new players or getting old ones to return and that is, simply put, poor customer service.

If you want to create a program, system or event to encourage new players and get old players back that's fine. I have no issues with that at all, but do something that makes some semblance of logical sense. Do something that directly benefits the player. If the idea is to give new players an incentive to play this game then actually give them some incentive. Give them something that directly benefits them as a player rather than something that might benefit the guild they get randomly invited to because they are a new level one player standing in Korthos. And what happens when that player gets to level 8, gets the 50,000 renown and then gets kicked out? I'm not saying that every guild will do this but some will. Giving direct incentive to a player to join has a far better chance at player retention than giving their guild bonuses.

So what should Turbine do instead? Well that depends on the goal here:

Going with the interpretation that the goal is to provide incentive for new players to play and keep playing and to lure old players back, I would say offer these players 1000 Turbine Points and a Lesser Tome of Learning to the first character they log into (this way it works for new and returning players). There, now new players and returning players have a direct incentive to play and keep playing. I don't think this is a great idea because you are still excluding current players, but hey if the only goal is to get new players and lure old players to return then you don't need much else.

If the goal is to provide a Guild specific benefit then you need to make it functional for ALL players. I like the bounty idea, in fact I love the bounty idea. I have seen other games implement level based reward systems to great effect and can say that if you could find a way to implement this system for all players it would be awesome. I can see where this would be difficult, not from a technical standpoint, but rather a exploit standpoint. If you make it a level based reward for a guild on all characters on all accounts you will have people exploit it. Then again people will exploit the current system as well, just as they do with the Turbine Point Rewards. My suggestion would be as follows:

Give bonus Guild Renown for specific levels of renown earned by a character, similar to TP and favor:

• Every 100 Renown earned grants a bonus 50 Renown (Would not apply to Renown Tokens)
  
  • Specific Earned Renown marks grant specific bonus Renown:
  
  
  • • 1000 Total earned grants 500 bonus
    • 2500 Total earned grants 750 bonus
    • 5000 Total earned grants 1000 bonus
    • Cont....
• Bounty rewards drop at levels 12, 16, and 20.
• Bounty rewards scale up:
  
  • Level 12 - Small Bounty - 5,000 Renown
  • Level 16 - Large Bounty - 25,000 Renown and 5 Astral Diamonds
  • Level 20 - Epic Bounty - 50,000 Renown and 10 Astral Diamonds

The above would be intended as a PERMANENT reward system. Permanent bonuses to XP have already been introduced, why not for Guild Renown?

If Turbine is looking to provide a temporary event for incentive, look at bringing back a popular event that provides entertainment, loot, bonuses and all around fun for all players. The Crystal Cove event is a good example of something that provides quite a lot of entertainment and good items as well as it being available for all characters at all levels. It provides incentive to new players and to old players to play the game and keep playing as they have a chance at XP and items that are good for all levels.

I am a fan of including bonus events and rewards to players and guilds because rewards are, well, rewarding. They bring a sense of accomplishment and they feel even better when you don't have to do much to get them. I would love to some form of rewards event or system go into place for guilds beyond the current random drops of Renown Tokens, as long as that reward system applies to ALL players and characters.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading. I hope that I haven't upset too many people or stepped on any toes and I fully expect many to disagree with me, and that's fine. This is, after all, just my opinion on the matter.

Good Gaming!
-Simon

[danotmano1998]

I personally would have preferred a simple +x% to Guild renown for "X" days event, but hey.
We get what we get.

I don't see this bringing back anyone into the game. Neat idea, Turbine, but why do you guys have to make things so darn complicated sometimes?

Ah well, best thing to do is to just play and not worry about the details, eh?

[madmaxhunter]

I personally would have preferred a simple +x% to Guild renown for "X" days event, but hey.
We get what we get.

I don't see this bringing back anyone into the game. Neat idea, Turbine, but why do you guys have to make things so darn complicated sometimes?

Ah well, best thing to do is to just play and not worry about the details, eh?

Easy enough, unless Turbine puts something in that will alienate new players. You have to understand, the tiny trickle of new players in Korthos, those who have seen the DDO banner for years and finally decided to try it out. They will get spammed with guild invites only to be temporary worker ants for the spammer guild. I enjoy the game, but also see the big picture.

To OP: I don't think new players should be given TPs and tomes. But your permanent renown bonus is a good idea.

[S1M0N5]

I personally would have preferred a simple +x% to Guild renown for "X" days event, but hey.
We get what we get.

I don't see this bringing back anyone into the game. Neat idea, Turbine, but why do you guys have to make things so darn complicated sometimes?

Ah well, best thing to do is to just play and not worry about the details, eh?

I like the idea of a simple +x% but they have done this before and I think that may be part of the reason for the new event type system, try something new.

I do agree the planed event won't bring anyone new in or bring old players back. There really is no incentive here.

--snip--

To OP: I don't think new players should be given TPs and tomes. But your permanent renown bonus is a good idea.

I don't think giving them TP and tomes it's a good idea either, but if Turbine's goal is only to entice new/returning players then this does that, the planned even doesn't, at all, not even a little. And doing it that way would make it very clear why they are doing it. And Thanks

/sleeps

Good Gaming!
-Simon

[Ziindarax]

How does this work, exactly?

Does the guild leader get the Astral diamonds and renown, or the guild leader? If it is the former, this is a bad call imo, as astral diamonds have uses outside of the guild..

[Rumbaar]

I think the worse part of this 'event' is that it's planned for only 'times and days'. Which vague details like that mean it will have more of a negative effect, as those that return or get recruited add to guild decay for the next 30+ days as they either do not play again or don't run that much.

The smart guilds will not see this as a benefit or use it in a very controlled manner. Thus not getting new or old players into a guild. The nature of decay will mean that most guilds that want to maintain a workable decay cannot afford to recruit in the hope that these 'times and days' fall into a bounty reward period.

[Ikuryo]

I also do not particularly care for this plan. It triggers my sense of fair-play, in that this does not feel fair. Especially the bonus xp and loot. I try and avoid joining guilds because I'm really tired of the drama that eventually erupts from the friction of the egos of the people in the guild. I don't mind that other people enjoy them and have no issue grouping with people in guilds. Guilds already get the ship buffs, but adding even more xp to them and giving a loot bonus as well is a bit much. With a +2 loot gem running they will be pulling more store loot and other odd stuff then ever.

What might happen is that guilds will for groups of 5 people from the guild with one dummy account that they park at the entrance. Everyone in the group will get +10%xp and +1 loot while they are leveling their TRs, then after the bonus period they will have the character leave the guild on good terms, having gathered all the bounty prizes and leveled 10% faster then they would have normally. Hardly any quests really require 6 players and a TR group is likely to blow through it on elite regardless.

They would gather 50 astral diamonds and 250k renown if they just parked a mule at the entrance of the quests and leveled it with them. Could go from 1-20 in a week. If you had a couple groups do that it would add up rather nicely. Or they could 4 man it with 2 mule accounts and get double that...

[danotmano1998]

I try and avoid joining guilds because I'm really tired of the drama that eventually erupts from the friction of the egos of the people in the guild...

You're joining the wrong guilds then, I'm afraid. I've been in a couple so far that have zero drama involved, and the one I'm in now is nothing but helpful and friendly.

[MrkGrismer]

You know, if they simply gave Astral Diamond rewards for existing players whose characters reach certain plateau levels I think the majority of the issue people have with this would go away. The problem, in my eyes, is that the AD reward is only for making new accounts and leveling to 8th level. Since AD is only otherwise available for cash (the extremely rare in-game drops don't count for anything) this means turbine is - in a way - paying people to make new accounts and level to 8 (and delete and repeat).

Sad

[amnota]

Gentlemen, start you engines. Welcome to the Dualbox Race to Eight.

[Untfell]

There is no worthwhile incentive to new players other than to improve the overall game experience.

Old players will not come back for gimmicky level based bonuses that have no real bearing on their personal gaming enjoyment.

Tbh, I couldn't care less about the guild system as it stands now. I pug and get ship invites, or I make do with our own level 60ish guild buffs. It makes no difference to me (imho the guild system is pretty pathetic).

Most of the people that I have seen come and go in this game, myself included, have left for reasons very much unrelated to the challenge of reaching and maintaining a high level guild.

What about offering players new and old:

a revamped UI (customization anyone?)

an improved auction house system. It's so basic as to be laughable.

in-game systems that are not so needlessly roundabout and/or complicated (trap the soul is ******** btw, please remove its requirement from any form of crafting)

LUA addons (gear-sets at the very least)

reduced lag and disconnects (noted in the current patch. ty...I hope)

better designed inventory space and management (I am SO Fing sick of of moving stuff between bags and toons. Make the shared inventory 1000 slots, searchable and sortable, or make bags accessible across your account...something...anything...better than the current micro-manage nightmare. I am really getting sick of the extra thousand or so clicks I have to make every week just to move some **** around to level crafting and maintain a semblance of order in my *saved* loots).

In *my* ideal world I could load the client and mange my inventory without logging a character on. Maybe even from a mobile app., but I'd be happy with a lot less than that.

How about replacing some of the more useful text commands (/quest completions, /quest) with an interface?

How about you offer an online/offline character design tool??? It has taken the interest and dedication of motivated players to do this for you.

The only reason this game still exists is because of a dedicated community core that takes the time to make all the necessary tools and information readily available to the general player base.

I have left and comeback to this game a number of times since it's release. Sure we get new content, but none of the "game" improvements I have craved throughout this whole time seem to ever materialize beyond some half-baked, or semi-effective realization of an idea.

DDO is not DnD, and DnD is not a computer game. Please, look to other MMO's and take inspiration.

Just some honest thoughts and feelings.

[MyHumps]

I think this just encourages people to stay inside their guilds. Why level in a pug when you can get +5% by running with guildies?

[JOTMON]

What might happen is that guilds will for groups of 5 people from the guild with one dummy account that they park at the entrance. Everyone in the group will get +10%xp and +1 loot while they are leveling their TRs, then after the bonus period they will have the character leave the guild on good terms, having gathered all the bounty prizes and leveled 10% faster then they would have normally. Hardly any quests really require 6 players and a TR group is likely to blow through it on elite regardless.

They would gather 50 astral diamonds and 250k renown if they just parked a mule at the entrance of the quests and leveled it with them. Could go from 1-20 in a week. If you had a couple groups do that it would add up rather nicely. Or they could 4 man it with 2 mule accounts and get double that...

Try the powerbox method..
1 person runs quest with 5 alt accounts parked at the door.
Delete alts and reroll alts then re-level to 8.

Poor implimentation by Turbine overall.
a 30 day membership by new character or you lose the bounty contribution should have been a part of this roll out.

Have bounties drop on epics on the end reward list, Endgame content and players are essentially penalized.
Why invite an existing level 20 person to the guild and run high level content when you can get a level 1 player in the guild and get all their bounties and levelling renown, or like you say.. roll up a dummy and tag it along for the bonus with a more active group.