TR'ing needs and alternative route

[Drekisen]

I love playing my PM wizard...it was the choice I made out of all 15 characters that I had....and it was a very tough choice mind you...to consolidate and end my ALTO-holic madness.

And I love it.....I am way more focused.....keeping up with 20 raid timers on 20 toons is gone.....inventory issues are over...no more moving twink gear from one toon to another.....yeah...it's way better...and if I get bored I go play my LM on LoTRO or my Assassin on Shaiya for a while.

That brings me to my issue.......I'm on my 3rd life as a PM now....one more life and I will have all three past lives stacked and this is where I am worried.

I don't wanna TR into a different class just to relive the leveling experience again because at that point I will get nothing further from leveling as a Wizard again.

So why do the benefits have to end for a single class after 3 lives.....sure make the feats they have now cap after three lives...but I see no reason why after I level my Wizard for the fourth time...why their shouldn't be something their for a fifth time TR. A new line of stackable to three times free past life feats and a new purchasable feat.

I mean this is what you can do now anyways...except you have to pick a different class for at least a life to do it.

It wouldn't be overpowered neither as I am sure Turbine would be quick to implement so it wouldn't be.

I don't want this just for Wizards...this should be an overall possibility for all classes.

I mean why can't I just play say 3 more Wizard TR's after my 4th one is done and get the +3 to conjuration or evocation from that instead of having to go through playing a cleric or sorc to get it...classes I have no interest in even playing.

OH and BTW...let us edit our freeking forum titles LOL

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

that could work, maybe after X TRs you get to choose something else and specialize your next life (so if saaaayyyy you REALLY love your wizard you could on your 5th life gain a +1 to any ONE spell school, and on 10th life again, and 15th life, but on 20th life make it better like a +2-3 or add more spell pen

[danotmano1998]

Im guessing that it is to encourage diversity of play.

[Vilhelm_der_Toller]

Or maybe after TRing 4 times you could do something Epic. Maybe even going beyond level 20!! Of course, specializing in spell casting maybe with some Epic enhancements.

[Syllph]

It would be neat if they gave you an option to add something to a given spell after three lives.

Let's say you know end game you really use Chain Lightning a ton. You could TR a 4th time and gain +1d6 damage before mods to every chain lightning spell. If you really wanted you could TR 10 times and gain +10d6 before mods.

Same could go with heal spells, Blade Barrier, stunning fist, etc.

If players want power, why not give it to them. So they will be overpowered. That's what they want, I don't see any reason they shouldn't have a -way- to achieve that goal.

[Drekisen]

Well, let's just hope Epic levels and the expansion will keep me busy.

I wanna play a wizard.....I just don't feel right having to play a whole 20 levels as another class to make my wizard even better...feels like cheating or just.....I don't know...impure.....LOL

[Thrudh]

You could always just spend some money and get the past-lives you want...

Buy two +5 hearts of wood, GR into 15/5 wizard/sorc, wait a week, GR into 10/10 wizard/sorc, TR immediately (GR and TR are on different timers) back into wizard again, but with a sorc past-life.

The bad part about this plan is that there is a week where you have a pretty gimp 15/5 wizard/sorc

Also, if you want to do this for FvS, you'll need 11 levels of favored soul, since a 10/10 wizard/FvS will end up with a wizard past-life.

[Drekisen]

You could always just spend some money and get the past-lives you want...

Buy two +5 hearts of wood, GR into 15/5 wizard/sorc, wait a week, GR into 10/10 wizard/sorc, TR immediately (GR and TR are on different timers) back into wizard again, but with a sorc past-life.

The bad part about this plan is that there is a week where you have a pretty gimp 15/5 wizard/sorc

Also, if you want to do this for FvS, you'll need 11 levels of favored soul, since a 10/10 wizard/FvS will end up with a wizard past-life.

uhmmmm....no

[Chai]

The entire TR system to me smack of grind + pay-to-reduce-grind. The fact that it is required to make a really powerful toon in some cases is absurd.

I like it from a standpoint of enjoying all of the games content over again without having to have 20 alts or begin deleting toons just to roll others like we did in the cap 16 days and previous, but optimizing point for point by running up life after life is redonkulous.

[Braegan]

While it may be an interesting idea to some, I don't see a way to make it happen.

It would both have to be
a) Not so overpowering that an entire revision of the games current DC thresholds would be needed to present a challenge to a 12th life Wizzy. *note* doing so would completely alienate new comers, 1st lifer alts and the like. Imagine the lfms: Need CC, must be 6+ lifer!
b) Interesting enough to grind out another 4 mil xp.

[Kmnh]

Isn't 4 lives as a wizard an insane amount already? That's 14 million XP.

Even if you keep 1k xp/min 14k minutes is 233 hours.

[Drekisen]

While it may be an interesting idea to some, I don't see a way to make it happen.

It would both have to be
a) Not so overpowering that an entire revision of the games current DC thresholds would be needed to present a challenge to a 12th life Wizzy. *note* doing so would completely alienate new comers, 1st lifer alts and the like. Imagine the lfms: Need CC, must be 6+ lifer!
b) Interesting enough to grind out another 4 mil xp.

Doesn't make much sense to me what you are saying....what is the difference if you played 4 lives as a wizard and 3 lives as a FVS and ended up with the passive +9 to your spell pen instead of simply playing 7 lives as a wizard and having +9 to your spell pen.

I am not asking the current capped at three tiers to be raised...I am asking for them to make additional ones for classes so after you are done capping the first three...if you wanna TR again as the same class that their is some reward there.

NO they wouldn't be necessary, but you would have to go unlock the first 3 times acquired now feats to get access to the new one.

This just creates another outlet for those who are interested in TR'ing again but not at all interested in doing it as another class after their 4th life as their current and only class.

Alienating newcomers...no I don't think so.....at most now and I will use wizard as an example all you need is at the very most one TR and some decent gear and you can handle pretty much every quest in the game aside from maybe the ones that are really not suited to a wizard.

Completionist and/or multiple past life stacking from a bunch of different classes is complete overkill and not even needed to make it in this game.......but if I wanted to go through the releveling process again after my 4th wizard life as a wizard for the 5th time.......there is nothing at the end of the tunnel....which is kind of lame.

At this point they are forcing people to TR as another class if they have maxxed the class they actually wanna play already with 4 lives.

[Braegan]

Doesn't make much sense to me what you are saying....what is the difference if you played 4 lives as a wizard and 3 lives as a FVS and ended up with the passive +9 to your spell pen instead of simply playing 7 lives as a wizard and having +9 to your spell pen.

I am not asking the current capped at three tiers to be raised...I am asking for them to make additional ones for classes so after you are done capping the first three...if you wanna TR again as the same class that their is some reward there.

NO they wouldn't be necessary, but you would have to go unlock the first 3 times acquired now feats to get access to the new one.

This just creates another outlet for those who are interested in TR'ing again but not at all interested in doing it as another class after their 4th life as their current and only class.

Alienating newcomers...no I don't think so.....at most now and I will use wizard as an example all you need is at the very most one TR and some decent gear and you can handle pretty much every quest in the game aside from maybe the ones that are really not suited to a wizard.

Completionist and/or multiple past life stacking from a bunch of different classes is complete overkill and not even needed to make it in this game.......but if I wanted to go through the releveling process again after my 4th wizard life as a wizard for the 5th time.......there is nothing at the end of the tunnel....which is kind of lame.

At this point they are forcing people to TR as another class if they have maxxed the class they actually wanna play already with 4 lives.

If you have 4 PL Wiz & 3 PL FvS for +9 spell pen. That is the current cap you can get via Tring. Using your example someone who has 7 lives of Wiz can also take 3 PL FvS to get +12 spell pen. While this is not what you are planning on doing, changing the mechanics would also need a revamp of the current mechanics as they are based on the current total thresholds we have. Your example raises the current threshold.

Now you mention you dont want the current ones but rather have something new added. That would be fine, but as I said before it would have to be something that would both be:
a) Not so overpowering that it would change the current balance we have with our current total thresholds.
b) Be good enough that it's worth the grind of another 4 mil xp...again.

The alienating of newcomers would be if your first example was implemented. Just think about it. If a few folks start winding up with so much SP and DC's from focused TRing on one class that it makes the current balance trivial, then there would be a sweeping revamp to restore balance. The revamp that would be needed to address the higher potenial values of SP and DC would in fact alienate anyone who has not tr'ed X amount of times to be effective. Currently yes, a 1st lifer with solid gear can be mostly effective. A 2nd life wizzy with solid gear is great. More is gravy. But those are based on a system of values we have at the moment. It's simple cause and effect. If the values we have access to increase, then the values we need to beat/overcome will be raised to compensate. When the values needed to be mostly effective raise, the game becomes more unfriendly to newcomers.

So in short I am not against the idea but I can't think of a single example of a bonus for more then the 3PL that wouldn't alter the current max potential of DC's and/or SP and thereby requiring a revamp of the system; that would also be worth repeating the same class at legend xp rate.

[mwgarn]

I understand where you are coming from. I'm currently a 4th life Wiz once I hit 20 it will just be about getting better gear as I have no interest in other classes.. What I'm thinking of doing is rolling a new toon.. a WF Archmage, that way I can still play a wizard and I get a little new perspective with being AM instead of PM.. after that I might finally feel like playing my arti or fvs..

[Drekisen]

If you have 4 PL Wiz & 3 PL FvS for +9 spell pen. That is the current cap you can get via Tring. Using your example someone who has 7 lives of Wiz can also take 3 PL FvS to get +12 spell pen. While this is not what you are planning on doing, changing the mechanics would also need a revamp of the current mechanics as they are based on the current total thresholds we have. Your example raises the current threshold.

Now you mention you dont want the current ones but rather have something new added. That would be fine, but as I said before it would have to be something that would both be:
a) Not so overpowering that it would change the current balance we have with our current total thresholds.
b) Be good enough that it's worth the grind of another 4 mil xp...again.

The alienating of newcomers would be if your first example was implemented. Just think about it. If a few folks start winding up with so much SP and DC's from focused TRing on one class that it makes the current balance trivial, then there would be a sweeping revamp to restore balance. The revamp that would be needed to address the higher potenial values of SP and DC would in fact alienate anyone who has not tr'ed X amount of times to be effective. Currently yes, a 1st lifer with solid gear can be mostly effective. A 2nd life wizzy with solid gear is great. More is gravy. But those are based on a system of values we have at the moment. It's simple cause and effect. If the values we have access to increase, then the values we need to beat/overcome will be raised to compensate. When the values needed to be mostly effective raise, the game becomes more unfriendly to newcomers.

So in short I am not against the idea but I can't think of a single example of a bonus for more then the 3PL that wouldn't alter the current max potential of DC's and/or SP and thereby requiring a revamp of the system; that would also be worth repeating the same class at legend xp rate.

Elementary my dear Watson.....the new past life feats would require that the class be pure throughout all it's lives.....so the new ones implemented would not be available to people who did different class lives.

This completely eliminates the problem you are stating.

Kind of like a take on the capstone.

[Munkenmo]

At this point they are forcing people to TR as another class if they have maxxed the class they actually wanna play already with 4 lives.

I Don't quite understand this part, in your op you stated you used to be an altaholic, and that your pale master has become your favorite toon thus you played it through 4 wizard past lives.

Nobody is forcing you to TR again, you want to improve your wizard which is understandable, and there are tools available to do so. If you don't like the idea of improving your wizard by playing a fvs for a while, then why not roll up another wizard?

[Drekisen]

I Don't quite understand this part, in your op you stated you used to be an altaholic, and that your pale master has become your favorite toon thus you played it through 4 wizard past lives.

Nobody is forcing you to TR again, you want to improve your wizard which is understandable, and there are tools available to do so. If you don't like the idea of improving your wizard by playing a fvs for a while, then why not roll up another wizard?

Quite simply because I want to continue to increase the power of this character as this class.....nothing I have mentioned would be even slightly remotely overpowered or gamebreaking at all.

[decease]

doubt they will do that.. personally i was hoping they would count toward another class's tr after third. so you could gain completion feat without playing certain class that you dislike.

[Bumbaragum]

doubt they will do that.. personally i was hoping they would count toward another class's tr after third. so you could gain completion feat without playing certain class that you dislike.

But the point at TR'ing is exactly this one! If you want to get more bonuses and abilities, you need to test it out diferent classes in game and if you wanna go completionist you have to play every class so you understand every aspect of the game.

[Fecerak]

It's fairly silly to expect devs to spend a lot of dev time on a feature that doesn't benefit a lot of people (VERY few people go pure same class every life), have lots of alternatives (TRing to other classes, gearing in instances), and requires you to do something that few people do anyways (I doubt there are that many who TR 3 times of the same class, sure there are a few, but compared to the amount of people who play DDO it's not much).

Sure, it wouldn't be overpowering or game-breaking, but it also wouldn't affect enough people to actually make it worthwhile to spend dev time on, especially considering how it limits your future lives, if say you suddenly decided that you REALLY wanted to become a FvS instead or something.