Arcane Archer love

[licho]

PS - I really keep hoping someone will give 8any* kind of feedback on my super long, complicated, and probably a bit too powerful revised AA idea a few posts back. I'm guessing lack of response means either "Wow... thats ridiculous" or "TL;DR"

IMHO the main problems with your idea:
- Complication - there is just to many modules of it. 8 types of dmg. Minor and Major side effects... im simply lost in amount. While i dont think PrE need to be that complicated. Look at Assasins: Some extra SA, chance for vorpal, and instakill clikie, also some useless poisons. And thats it. And there is no problem with "to weak Assasin".

- Variables - its part of larger discussion, and i bet many players dont mind variables. But IMO just having % chance for extra effect is not as cool as having it as special attack on demand with meaningful cld (30sec +). There is more place to skill and thinking when you have to make decission when to use a clikie and when not.

Generally i would be more happy with something simple but effective enought:

I. Conjure arrows - preatty much as is, with the exeption of adding +6 to the range. (copypaste of conjure bolt)

II. Imbue. Gain it from lv 6. But Improves while leveling.
You can buy any of 4 elements and force from level 6. But each imbue cost (like 1Ap).
Imbues automatically improves while leveling/with improving AA tree.
The cost of switch could be low (like 20SP) and you can do it every 1 min. The SP will be drain anyway with special shots.
- lv 6 Element 1d6
- lv 12 Burst 1d6 +2d10 on crits
- lv 18 Blast +2d10 on critcs, + 4d6 on vorpal.
- lv 20 Strike Vorpal 20d6
Force line will use d4 instead of 1d6. (otherwise it will be to go choice) but grants auto ghost touch.
Note: this is just 16 dmg per shot, so the major nerf to AA(Slaying Arrow =25). Im killing the archery!

III CHarged Shots - this will be single shots, each costing some small amount of SP (like 5-10, but on ranger it matters) This will be like AM SLAs.

1. Explosive shot (from lv 9). The next shot additionally deals CL*d6 of elemental dmg (up to 20d6 or 25d6 depending on new standard) to the target and enemies around (like fireball). 10 SP, 15 sec cld.
Using this ability demands having imbue on, and use imbued element. (force still uses d4)
Note: Explosive shot (and only this one) benefit from enhancement elemental lines, metamagic and potency items.

2. Disabling shot (lv 15) - again next single shot costing some SP (like 10) and creating single target CC effect. So 1 shot, but 100% proc. The effect depends of imbue on, and is different for each. It will be great if effects will vary, and each use different save, or have some other edge. Note: the effect should bring the helpless effect.
The exacly effect is up to discussion (and its easy part to make up some). The important thing is that this will be rather CC effect than extra dmg. Extra dmg is from explosive shot and main line. (10sp, 30sec cld) As for fire (its less obvious):
- Cool name with fire and magma and scorching here - Slow and -10 to all stats (from extense heat) sounds good if works on oranges. (and death arrow soon after)

DC - there is a lot of popcorn potencial in DC math. Since wishes of monkchers are much different from wishes of classic Ranger AA. WHo dont want to walk with 50DC like a boss?
Some idea: DC= 10+(ranger levels + characters levels)/2 + MaxMod[int, cha, wis] + AATier.

Variation: Both works on 15sec cld, but shared. So you can use one or the other every 15sec. From the other side being able to set helpless and then burst is also cool.

IV. Special shots - similar to charged, but the result do not really depends on imbue. Also both have long cld since they may be powerful (instakill), by long cld i mean 2-4 min.

1. True Strikes - is true, natural 20 on the dice. Very long cld, low cost in sp.

2. Slaying Arrow - long cld, big cost (like 50sp). SIngle shot, 100%. Fort save. If fail, then die. If made then 250 bane dmg and is shaken.

V. Phase/Hooming/Seeker arrows - this will be a extra chain of perks avaiable on each tier. (need to buy it separetly) The perks will work all the time.
Tier I (lv6) - See invisible
Tier III lv 12) - Phase Arrows, ignore the fog like effects when it comes to concelment.
Tier III (lv18) - True seeing, ignore blurlike effect

***
And this is as i see it. Not so complicated. Many "use it in right time" abilities. Some extra utylity in CC and True seeing line. Much more stress on blue bar. The funny thing is that this will actually deal less dmg than current AA (Slaying Arrow), but thats good. Let the Kensai or DS be king of dps.

One missing thing:
- Hail of Arrow - ability to hit with arrows every target in some area (either cone, or ring) like ranged cleave.
I would really like to see it, but more like feat which can be picked by anyone (so AA as well, but also Kensai or DS). This is part of aproach "not every archer need to be HE AA Monk".

***
Other discussion:

But having the choice of element gives the illusion of having variety when it fact it removes variety. You would simply pick the most appropriate element for the dungeon and you would have the exact dps as laid out by Aesop. So in 90% of cases that damage type is equal to untyped damage = boring.

It depends on which side of network you are. Lets imagine we are running stelar of souls, and the fellow Sorcerer watch AA switching imbues in each part. He may think " How lame, every AA does that, leet players go all force, AA are OP". While for the other side (AA player) its more like " Cool i can apply imbues depending on enviroment, this class is so versalite".

[Thrudh]

PS please Devs dont kill Crit rage

I wonder if you're going to be so attached to crit rage and your build when everyone can do it.

[krackythehoodedone]

When i built my Crit Rage Bowbarian everyone could do it then.

I do like the idea of having differing and indeed unique items/builds.

Its one of the strongpoints of D&D.

It wouldnt bother me in the slightest if the build was made readily available to all. However i will be gutted if it is killed off forever and i'm forced to respec.

Hey if it becomes available to all i will be able to TR. So i would be off on a 7TR mission. You already know which seven it would be

[RobbinB]

I. Conjure arrows - preatty much as is, with the exeption of adding +6 to the range. (copypaste of conjure bolt)

II. Imbue. Gain it from lv 6. But Improves while leveling.
You can buy any of 4 elements and force from level 6. But each imbue cost (like 1Ap).
Imbues automatically improves while leveling/with improving AA tree.
The cost of switch could be low (like 20SP) and you can do it every 1 min. The SP will be drain anyway with special shots.
- lv 6 Element 1d6
- lv 12 Burst 1d6 +2d10 on crits
- lv 18 Blast +2d10 on critcs, + 4d6 on vorpal.
- lv 20 Strike Vorpal 20d6
Force line will use d4 instead of 1d6. (otherwise it will be to go choice) but grants auto ghost touch.
Note: this is just 16 dmg per shot, so the major nerf to AA(Slaying Arrow =25). Im killing the archery!

III CHarged Shots - this will be single shots, each costing some small amount of SP (like 5-10, but on ranger it matters) This will be like AM SLAs.

1. Explosive shot (from lv 9). The next shot additionally deals CL*d6 of elemental dmg (up to 20d6 or 25d6 depending on new standard) to the target and enemies around (like fireball). 10 SP, 15 sec cld.
Using this ability demands having imbue on, and use imbued element. (force still uses d4)
Note: Explosive shot (and only this one) benefit from enhancement elemental lines, metamagic and potency items.

2. Disabling shot (lv 15) - again next single shot costing some SP (like 10) and creating single target CC effect. So 1 shot, but 100% proc. The effect depends of imbue on, and is different for each. It will be great if effects will vary, and each use different save, or have some other edge. Note: the effect should bring the helpless effect.

I think this setup would be pretty good. I don't agree with 1 AP per element though if I'm understanding your post right (improvements are free as you move to AAII-V?) - this would only be 4 AP and you have all 4 elements. I think 2 or 3 AP per elemental line is more appropriate. At that cost, you would definitely see a whole range of differences among AAs on how many and which elemental lines they wanted to pick up.

As for the force, in addition to reducing the d6 to d4 I would also remove the final 20d6 vorpal to make the elemental lines a little more appetizing by comparison. I'd also be tempted to leave one or two minor secondary effects per elemental line as well (eg. DOT and AC destruction for acid)

Charged shot ideas are pretty good. An alternative idea to having an sp cost would be to bring in some of them as epic enhancements which only become available if you've invested in the appropriate elemental line - with either a fixed number of uses per rest or simply a cooldown timer between uses. I think it might actually be cool if you could actually have one elemental line in use and then choose an exploding or disabling shot from a different line (that you've invested in).

As for conjure arrows, I'd definitely like to see it set up independently so the other imbues do not require you get to any particular +. Again we might see lots more diversity where one individual values +6 arrows, another individual concludes they aren't worth the AP investment.