Bugs taking over DDO

[EustaceTrevelyan]

I have developed the opinion that Turbine should employ a programmer / QA tech for solely fixing low-priority bugs ... Simply because they add up over time ... Like stone by stone the ancient Pyramids of Egypt were built ...

Tiny little stones (which the stones from the Pyramids were not) - they just add up over time into a massive heap ...

It's like a light drizzling rain : It is so light, that you don't notice that you get wet. Until it's too late.

YES! +1 for this, because it's not that any given bug is fail, (bugs, much like @#$%!!!!, happen), but that they don't seem to ever try and fix em, since i guess making stuff work is not cost effective when they have us addicted.

[Phemt81]

YES! +1 for this, because it's not that any given bug is fail, (bugs, much like @#$%!!!!, happen), but that they don't seem to ever try and fix em, since i guess making stuff work is not cost effective when they have us addicted.

Good news on that side just from today.

From Lamannia update 13 patch 1 release notes:

"Skills, Feats, and Enhancements

NEW: Fixed an issue where Rage and other "clickable" feats would not always activate, but still have their cooldowns engage."

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I've had that happen too, but its happened after update 12, new computer. It shouldn't be overheated for me at least, since it runs other, newer games like Starcraft 2 just fine. It also happens eeeeevery once in a while usually while in town, and almost never actually in a dungeon or questing.

Its not with a visible UI though, and this ONLY happens with DDO. Not starcraft, WoW, Bioshock, WAROnline, etc.

Hm, maybe it is Directx related ? Because the games you mention a a bit newer games than DDO, and might therefore use a different version of Directx ?

And I heard (I#m not sure) that several versions of Directx are incompatible with one another ?

That's why I often say that if you own Win Vista and newer, you'll need to install Directx 9.0c - and of that always the *newest* variant ! - for older games.
It's simply because older games relying on Directx 9 jest can't utilize Directx 10 or 11 (like Drakensang, for example).

[parvo]

Probably been stated before, but the silver flame and emerald claw trinkets will be replaced with fresh, downgraded versions if you talk to the givers again. I don't know any reason a player would ever want to do this. (I'm sure the mechanic is in place for players that lose their trinket or want to try the other version.) The confusing part is they get the quest reward type icon over their heads once you upgrade your trinket. "Talking" to NPCs with this icon becomes habit. I've seen a few folks in my guild accidentally downgrade this way.

[NexEverto]

First while running And the Dead Shall Rise i got a black screen right after killing the lich (thanks to an experienced player in the party). I couldn't see anything, UI either. I could only hear sounds and was able to write in chat (without seeing it, using just enter and other keys...), DDO was not "responding" in task manager.

Driver crash maybe? Recently updated any drivers?

Then, later, i sent an item from my alt, 1000 siberys fragments and i got this screen:

Can't detach, as you see, 26 empty slots, but it says i should check for full inventory or exclusivity of the item. None of the above, just a bug.

Nothing important, right, in fact i really hope that won't happen to anyone with valuable items.

I'm going to try replicating the bug, likely the first time you tried to detach it your client detached it prior to the server confirming it, so the server prevented it from being detached, now it can't understand why it stuck there so its 'logical' answer is full inventory or exclusivity. I could be wrong as I'm just speculating, but I tend to end up right some of the time.

EDIT[/COLOR]: Well, actually, it is not a broken game mechanic as i stated previously. It is actually a known bug (from players) that destroys an item you acquire after running several quests. And after being destroyed it can't be found on buy back tab.
So, judging from regular game mechanics perspective, it should be considered a bug in my humble opinion.

No, its not a bug or a broken game mechanic, its a poorly designed function of the game. You are not meant to be able to have two Talismans, if you read the dialog both mention that your carrying the opposing 'orders' Talisman and that they'd remove it for you if you wished them to. There is no big red text because Turbine didn't start using big red text till recently, with Reincarnations (of all forms) I believe. The reason you can't get them back from the 'Buy Back' tab, is because its a quest item. Imagine if every quest item that ended up destroyed after leaving a quest ended up in your Buy Back tab, you'd hate it.

Its also no different to resetting your Delera's quest chain without doing the 5th 'hidden' part, its no different than Threnal, you finish a side, you can either use that completion to unlock another chain, or, you can reset it to re-run the first chain. Same happens in Necro with Shadow Crypt. There's a whole bunch of them that function the same. Its just a bad design mechanic, but its not a bug.

If I'm repeating anyone, I'm sorry, I skim read through this thread. Also, check out the links my signature, three bugs in one day isn't that amazing considering the amount I hear about through in game tells, private messages and forum comments. It makes me feel really sorry for those handing bug reports.

[Phemt81]

Probably been stated before, but the silver flame and emerald claw trinkets will be replaced with fresh, downgraded versions if you talk to the givers again. I don't know any reason a player would ever want to do this. (I'm sure the mechanic is in place for players that lose their trinket or want to try the other version.) The confusing part is they get the quest reward type icon over their heads once you upgrade your trinket. "Talking" to NPCs with this icon becomes habit. I've seen a few folks in my guild accidentally downgrade this way.

Yes, same icon for quests and they just destroy a long farmed item.

It's phishing! It's totally similar to that!

Driver crash maybe? Recently updated any drivers?

Driver crash is another thing, i had those. That black screen is a bug.

I'm going to try replicating the bug, likely the first time you tried to detach it your client detached it prior to the server confirming it, so the server prevented it from being detached, now it can't understand why it stuck there so its 'logical' answer is full inventory or exclusivity. I could be wrong as I'm just speculating, but I tend to end up right some of the time.

Probably you are right. Maybe not.

No, its not a bug or a broken game mechanic, its a poorly designed function of the game. You are not meant to be able to have two Talismans, if you read the dialog both mention that your carrying the opposing 'orders' Talisman and that they'd remove it for you if you wished them to. There is no big red text because Turbine didn't start using big red text till recently, with Reincarnations (of all forms) I believe. The reason you can't get them back from the 'Buy Back' tab, is because its a quest item. Imagine if every quest item that ended up destroyed after leaving a quest ended up in your Buy Back tab, you'd hate it.

No, sorry, it is a bug. An item destroyed by talking by an npc and not present in buy-back tab can't ever be working as intended. So it is a bug. No need to try explaining why it should not be considered that way only cause you are used to know it and it doesn't hurt your game experience anymore.

Like the ladder bug. It is a bug.

Its also no different to resetting your Delera's quest chain without doing the 5th 'hidden' part, its no different than Threnal, you finish a side, you can either use that completion to unlock another chain, or, you can reset it to re-run the first chain. Same happens in Necro with Shadow Crypt. There's a whole bunch of them that function the same. Its just a bad design mechanic, but its not a bug.

When you bestow the quest "return to delera" the door of delera's tomb won't be flashing yellow like all other quests. So, guess what? That is a BUG mate. This one exists with more quests, not only in delera.

You need to compare usual game mechanic with specific one to understand what is a bug and what not.

Threnal? Yeah i can't believe resetting your progress clicking a dialogue bos is WAI, sorry i'm trying to believe it, but i just can't.

If I'm repeating anyone, I'm sorry, I skim read through this thread. Also, check out the links my signature, three bugs in one day isn't that amazing considering the amount I hear about through in game tells, private messages and forum comments. It makes me feel really sorry for those handing bug reports.

You kiddin mate? A game freeze, long farmed item loss and another sent, "not amazing" in only one night?

And you are sorry for the developers and not for my two hours loss between handling them and reporting? I am not payed to do this, they are...

Your replies.

Thanks everyone for posting

[chrichton]

Note that many (most?) software development organizations employ a "human resources" approach that uses two different groups of "devs": one to create/upgrade the software, and another to "maintain" it (ie: bug fixes). This separation may be less expensive, but its results are almost always less than optimal, and sometimes outright disastrous.

I know this from painful experience.

[HAL]

Feel free to find and read my explanation (even quoted myself on that...) on why this can't be the case.

The fact that a GM said that your black screen was a known bug doesn't mean anything at all. They say wrong things all the time.

[NexEverto]

Yes, same icon for quests and they just destroy a long farmed item.

A quest icon over a quest giver? No way! Anyway...

No, sorry, it is a bug. An item destroyed by talking by an npc and not present in buy-back tab can't ever be working as intended. So it is a bug. No need to try explaining why it should not be considered that way only cause you are used to know it and it doesn't hurt your game experience anymore.

Listen, you can sit there all day and call a Tomato a Vegetable all you want, but at the end of the day its still a Fruit. Fact is, when you talk to either the Silver Flame or the Emerald Claw giver for the 'Nugget' quest, they both clearly asks what you want to do with the other 'Orders' Trinket. Here's a screenshot as proof.



A Dev would have had to physically program those three options in, sure, they're not in BIG RED TEXT as maybe they should be, but they are there and if you failed to read them that's no ones fault other than your own. As I said, the reason it doesn't appear in your Buy Back list is because its considered a Quest Item, and if that's not the reason, I'm sure a Dev would say its because they don't want you to be able to get one, then buy back the other to have both.

Like the ladder bug. It is a bug.

Which ladder bug? There's been three. One was where people would get stuck in the middle of the ladder, the other one was where some Ladders suddenly had a chunk cut out of the middle which I believe was a failed fix to the previous bug, and finally the one I suspect your talking about where people get stuck rebounding at the bottom of the ladder. That final one is actually an issue with the Server and your Client talking. If you pause for a second before climbing ladders you'll notice it less.

When you bestow the quest "return to delera" the door of delera's tomb won't be flashing yellow like all other quests. So, guess what? That is a BUG mate. This one exists with more quests, not only in delera.

-Snip-

Threnal? Yeah i can't believe resetting your progress clicking a dialogue bos is WAI, sorry i'm trying to believe it, but i just can't.

I wasn't talking about the door not lighting up, so I won't give you a proper commented on that. If you don't get that part of the quest until you talk to her however, then no, it wouldn't be considered a bug. If you get it before talking to her, then yes, it would be a bug as its not showing you the quest entrance. What I was talking about is resetting the chain before doing that final part, much like in Threnal. At the end of the day, a Dev would have had to put in the option to reset your chain, it would have actually been more working than having the NPC say 'Shoo, go do the other part of this before talking to me to reset things', so you can't say its a bug. Its just poor design.

Also regarding your other bug with your mail, tried to replicate it with some Guildies of mine, how many Siberys Dragonshard Fragments did you send? Because as you can see with my attached image, it'll actually show the number. The fact yours doesn't makes me suspect my theory was right, or you sent one and something else is going on.

[Phemt81]

The fact that a GM said that your black screen was a known bug doesn't mean anything at all. They say wrong things all the time.

I didn't talk to a GM. How many times i need to say it?

Next(everto) will be replied

[llyrnionfor]

Note that many (most?) software development organizations employ a "human resources" approach that uses two different groups of "devs": one to create/upgrade the software, and another to "maintain" it (ie: bug fixes). This separation may be less expensive, but its results are almost always less than optimal, and sometimes outright disastrous.

I know this from painful experience.

+1, definitely.

The "industry best practices" that create separate teams (often, even separate departments) for architecture/design, development (one team for "projects", another for "maintenance/correction"), QA, operations, etc, only assure one thing - lack of quality as a rule, stemming from the fact that the team that performs one task will not be there downstream to suffer its consequences.

Add to it the "time-to-market" fallacy, and what you get are teams a) under pressure to deliver and b) with the knowledge that Someone Else (TM) will clean whatever mess they create.

Now, on-topic...

I don't know if I'd call it a bug, but I believe a well-designed game (and I admit I can't think of any, right now) should have a player-configurable setting to display warnings and red flashing lights every time you're about to do something you may regret.

Then, it becomes your choice - whether you value warnings over immersion.

[Phemt81]

We made changes! If you have time, send us some fake reports!
I'm interested in if you get any of the following (hopefully you won't):

1. Black screen of death
2. White screen of death
3. Redirect page

Hopefully our days of the bug report tool is busted are behind us.

Let me get some spare time to reply you decently please.

Week end was made to stay with girls

[Phemt81]

Listen, you can sit there all day and call a Tomato a Vegetable all you want, but at the end of the day its still a Fruit. Fact is, when you talk to either the Silver Flame or the Emerald Claw giver for the 'Nugget' quest, they both clearly asks what you want to do with the other 'Orders' Trinket. Here's a screenshot as proof.

Lol what? The example you just made is like telling me i am talking nonsense.

I am not saying pizza is done with ketchup (bleargh!) i am just saying ketchup is red, like tomatoes. And that is a fact.

A fact, just like saying that all items you destroy, or game destroys (lag, or other errors...) are in the buyback vendor's tab. See anything not making sense? I don't.

A Dev would have had to physically program those three options in, sure, they're not in BIG RED TEXT as maybe they should be, but they are there and if you failed to read them that's no ones fault other than your own. As I said, the reason it doesn't appear in your Buy Back list is because its considered a Quest Item, and if that's not the reason, I'm sure a Dev would say its because they don't want you to be able to get one, then buy back the other to have both.

What is my fault? That i have destroyed an item obtained by running 15 quests by clicking a dialogue box without reading it? You serious?

Oh, they have done that way cause they do not want we get both items. Read some posts behind, there is a way to get both. You need stronger facts to change my opinion about this; that is just very poor game design, and needs to be improved. Point.

Let me know any game destroying an item you grinded for by clicking a dialogue box. If you can name me one... i will keep carefully away from that one

Which ladder bug? There's been three. One was where people would get stuck in the middle of the ladder, the other one was where some Ladders suddenly had a chunk cut out of the middle which I believe was a failed fix to the previous bug, and finally the one I suspect your talking about where people get stuck rebounding at the bottom of the ladder. That final one is actually an issue with the Server and your Client talking. If you pause for a second before climbing ladders you'll notice it less.

Never experienced the first two ladder bugs you are talking about. But i won't doubts they exist or they are actually bugs only cause i didn't encounter them...

Thanks for the workaround, but i already tried it and does not seem to work; going down and jumping to ladder usually works. Not sure why we talking specifically of this though...

I wasn't talking about the door not lighting up, so I won't give you a proper commented on that. (...) you can't say its a bug. Its just poor design.

Poor programming causes bugs.
Poor game desing causes broken game mechanics.

I see a very thin line between those...

Also regarding your other bug with your mail, tried to replicate it with some Guildies of mine, how many Siberys Dragonshard Fragments did you send? Because as you can see with my attached image, it'll actually show the number. The fact yours doesn't makes me suspect my theory was right, or you sent one and something else is going on.

I sent to my alt 1000 siberys fragments.
When i tried to detach game lagged. Then I had the error (in the image i posted in OP) then the number vanished and the mail contained just the image of the fragments, without its number.

It stayed on my mail for 5 days, undetachable, and then vanished.

I thing i would really go mad if that happens with an important item. And a lot of people would go mad as well...

Your replies

Thanks for posting!

[NexEverto]

What is my fault? That i have destroyed an item obtained by running 15 quests by clicking a dialogue box without reading it? You serious?

I'm done. Thanks for playing!

[Phemt81]

I'm done. Thanks for playing!

What?

[Psychoticfrog]

Just...stop.

Your argument is arbitrary.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

DDO is an action game.

During the last decade, Blizzard & other firms taught the players through their myriads of action games to NOT read the dialogs.
And rather to zerg on and kill everything, even if it's friendly (a ertain quest in DDO ...)

In DDO this is the case, too.

[Phemt81]

I feel insulted by this community of trolls and moderators keeping deleting my comments.

I am done trying to help here.

Have fun with your multiaccounts and elitist people.

[HungarianRhapsody]

I feel insulted by this community of trolls and moderators keeping deleting my comments.

I am done trying to help here.

Have fun with your multiaccounts and elitist people.

As a troll, I resent your implication that I would delete a post that might possibly bring additional dram.

[Psychoticfrog]

As a troll, I resent your implication that I would delete a post that might possibly bring additional dram.

I know right? =]