Druids in DDO & the origins in D&D

[Captain_Wizbang]

This is the one class I've been waiting for to emerge in DDO. As being a devout V 2.0 PnP campaigner, it is (if given a free hand) the most unassuming powerful class in the game.

Why PnP DM's restrict the class: Simple, they can overpower a campaign. As most older "modules" have an outdoors setting, Druids were used to "police" those areas while others went into the dungeon. If given enough time to prepare that area, a Druid could enchant the area, thus making it part of his "sacred grove"

______________________________________________

Shape-shifting: Originally, only real "earth born" animals were allowed, but as the game progressed, other magical based creatures emerged, and became part of the Druids Handbook. A perfect example is the Centaur. Give that race the ability to shape-shift, AND have casting abilities would reek havoc in the out-of-doors. Most DM's restricted the types and "times per day" a Druid could shift, if not, each encounter would result in a player ruining the campaign.

_____________________________________________

Weapons: Druids could use anything that was related to reaping or harvesting, "Scythe" "Sickle" which now aligns itself to our "Kopesh". And mostly never took an enchanted one from found or gained loot. They made their own! However, wood, bone & stone weps were the exception to that rule.

_____________________________________________

Armor: Nothing metal. Not even Mithral.

_____________________________________________

Spells: It started they were allowed all Cleric based, with the exception of turn undead. That has changed with paths & specialization of the class.

_____________________________________________


I'm not professing to be an expert on Druids. Im going by what I've learned over an extensive PnP background. And have read up on, but not played them in V 3.0 & newer rule sets.

Given the weapons we already have in-game, and the armor (finally time to start keeping padded leather ) The introduction of the Druid should be one of the best releases we've seen.

From what I've managed to hear from the rumor mill (same one that gave me a FR heads up a while ago) once the shape shifting issue is resolved, this class will be a perfect fit for DDO.

[Uska]

druids wont get khopesh at least thats my thought as it really has nothing to do with a scythe. and oh yeah turn undead has nothing to do with spells

[Missing_Minds]

druids wont get khopesh at least thats my thought as it really has nothing to do with a scythe. and oh yeah turn undead has nothing to do with spells

Agreed. A khopesh is a glorified axe. They won't get khopesh.

They will be based about 3.5 rules.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm

In game, they'll allowed to be able to use the darkweave (or is it dark leaf?) armor.

[Captain_Wizbang]

druids wont get khopesh at least thats my thought as it really has nothing to do with a scythe. and oh yeah turn undead has nothing to do with spells

AS copied from the original Druid handbook;

No Druid has the power to turn undead. Such creatures are not of the living world, the only world that concerns Druids.


If you read deeper into my post, then I wrote it wrong, or you read it wrong.


As for your reference about weapons, We'll have to wait for the devs to release something. All I did was quote what's published material.

[MsEricka]

Druids should be proficient with Scimitars when they are released.

[Zyerz]

Druids should be proficient with Scimitars when they are released.

They will. I'm just wondering myself how armor, GS, and other call it "uber gear" will affect them. Ehh, we got 3 months to find out.

[Uska]

AS copied from the original Druid handbook;

No Druid has the power to turn undead. Such creatures are not of the living world, the only world that concerns Druids.


If you read deeper into my post, then I wrote it wrong, or you read it wrong.


As for your reference about weapons, We'll have to wait for the devs to release something. All I did was quote what's published material.

You called it a spell its not a spell and no druids dont get it


as to weapons well I dont see how you can think they might get khopesh from anything that has been published I could see maybe giving them falchions but that would be a reach

[Captain_Wizbang]

You called it a spell its not a spell and no druids dont get it


as to weapons well I dont see how you can think they might get khopesh from anything that has been published I could see maybe giving them falchions but that would be a reach

If I had my way, Druids would only be allowed a scythe or sickle, and even those would be limited in effectiveness.

However this is DDO and the game is set in Stormreach where the majority of content is inside a building or underground. So, the druid we will see most certainly will be an adaptation of the PnP class.

It's a tough call to make, on how to bring a class devoted to nature into a setting like Stormreach. Which is why I made the statement about Kopesh and similar weapons.

As we have been waiting for 3 + years, and the earliest feedback we have gotten from the devs was about the shape shifting issue. (2 years ago) When we see the class released, I'm fairly certain the devs will incorporate a lot of flexibility into weapons.

My big hope for the class are the Pre's we get.

[Uska]

If I had my way, Druids would only be allowed a scythe or sickle, and even those would be limited in effectiveness.

However this is DDO and the game is set in Stormreach where the majority of content is inside a building or underground. So, the druid we will see most certainly will be an adaptation of the PnP class.

It's a tough call to make, on how to bring a class devoted to nature into a setting like Stormreach. Which is why I made the statement about Kopesh and similar weapons.

As we have been waiting for 3 + years, and the earliest feedback we have gotten from the devs was about the shape shifting issue. (2 years ago) When we see the class released, I'm fairly certain the devs will incorporate a lot of flexibility into weapons.

My big hope for the class are the Pre's we get.

Your limitations for weapons are more than pnp they will certainly get scimiatar I am sure, I have been a fan of druids since 78 when the 1st ed phb came out and I am very excited for them to be coming here. and as to druids here I have been waiting for more than 6 years sadly

[Missing_Minds]

http://underdark.ddo.com/druid

"Proficient with staves, daggers, clubs, sickles, and more; the Druid is a powerful caster who is able to fill a variety of party roles."

Not certain what the "and more" is going to be yet.

[yawumpus]

http://underdark.ddo.com/druid
Not certain what the "and more" is going to be yet.

Judging from previous pay2win classes, extremely overpowered at first, followed by withholding excessive buffing love to limit them to "slightly overbalanced". Of course, after taking 6 or so years, they have a good chance at being far buggier than monks.

Remember, they are trying to sell as many as possible before anyone sees one on Lammania. Not a good sign.

[ristretto93]

Scimitars have been druid usable weapons since I can remember. I would be really surprised if they aren't granted those in addition to sickle, Q-staff, and other blunt weapons. Also, they should get shield use (I hope) even if they are limited to wooden shields. Khopesh doesn't seem likely to me w/o a feat because they are exotic...

Maybe they can introduce the scythe as a DDO weapon (2 hand slash, exotic?)

Not that they would need them much, but I wonder what ranged weapon options would be:

X-bows are 'simple' weapons (and other casters can use them), but they don't seem very druid like. There are wooden longbows/shortbows, and there doesn't seem to be a thematic conflict with druids using them (imho) but I don't remember them getting proficiency with bows. Either way, the use of ranged weapons would be very situational at best as long as a spell can be used to pull mobs,

[learst]

X-bows are 'simple' weapons (and other casters can use them), but they don't seem very druid like. There are wooden longbows/shortbows, and there doesn't seem to be a thematic conflict with druids using them (imho) but I don't remember them getting proficiency with bows. Either way, the use of ranged weapons would be very situational at best as long as a spell can be used to pull mobs,

These reminds me of something that hit me when after playing DDO a while. There are no slings and bullets! It's a simple weapon that I usually give the druids I rolled as they level up to fill the in-betweens of spell casting.

[Missing_Minds]

These reminds me of something that hit me when after playing DDO a while. There are no slings and bullets! It's a simple weapon that I usually give the druids I rolled as they level up to fill the in-betweens of spell casting.

Honestly, with the advent of eletric loop, I've been hoping they'd make/release the halfling skip rock a reality. They've got all the tech necessary for it. Esp with now going to FR.

[thwart]

These reminds me of something that hit me when after playing DDO a while. There are no slings and bullets! It's a simple weapon that I usually give the druids I rolled as they level up to fill the in-betweens of spell casting.

I love it ... slings and bullets are old school! I also vote for the return of electrum pieces!

[ristretto93]

These reminds me of something that hit me when after playing DDO a while. There are no slings and bullets! It's a simple weapon that I usually give the druids I rolled as they level up to fill the in-betweens of spell casting.

Wow. I don't know why this never occurred to me. Not only did I use slings on a lot of characters in older PC D&D games (from the original Pool of Radiance on up) but it seems like one of the most natural simple weapons to include (along with spears ) in the game. It's sure a lot more simple than a X-bow!

[Captain_Wizbang]

Your limitations for weapons are more than pnp they will certainly get scimiatar I am sure, I have been a fan of druids since 78 when the 1st ed phb came out and I am very excited for them to be coming here. and as to druids here I have been waiting for more than 6 years sadly

I was playing for 5 years when 1st edt came out, and our DM made us play a druid as class NOT using anything other than what I had listed.

That is the premise of D&D, the DM alters the "rules" as they see fit. But I'm sure you'll find something to disagree with me on that as well.

[Emili]

Scimitar or staff had always been the common weapon choices of druid since it's inception in AD&D player's handbook.

Thier were far higher restrictions in the class there at first (original AD&D)... one being level fourteen was cap for that class (while other classes reached as far as twenty-plus in cap) and there could only be but ONE "great druid" in an entire campaign.

The Druid
The druid is a sub-class of clerics. They are the only absolute neutrals (see
ALIGNMENT), viewing good and evil, law and chaos, as balancing forces
of nature which are necessary for the continuation of all things. As priests
of nature, they must have a minimum wisdom of 12 and a charisma of 15.
Both of these major attributes must exceed 15 if a druid is to gain a 10%
bonus to earned experience.

Restrictions to magic item use such as....

Druids can use those magic items not otherwise proscribed which are for
all classes and those for regular clerics which are not written, i.e. books
and scrolls.

Weapons were:

leather armour, wooden club, dagger, dart, hammer, scimitar, sling, spear, staff

They were modeled as:

Druids can be visualized as medieval cousins of what the ancient Celtic
sect of Druids would have become had it survived the Roman conquest.
They hold trees (particularly oak and ash), the sun, and the moon as
deities. Mistletoe is the holy symbol of druids, and it gives power to their
spells. They have an obligation to protect trees and wild plants, crops, and
to a lesser extent, their human followers and animals. Thus, druids will
never destroy woodlands or crops no matter what the circumstances. Even
though a woods, for example, were evilly hostile, druids would not destroy
it, although nothing would prevent them from changing the nature of the
place if the desire and wherewithal existed. In similar fashion, they avoid
slaying wild animals or even domestic ones except as necessary for selfpreservation
and sustenance.

Came 3.0 and later 3.5 relaxed restrictions openning up the power of the class levels adding more abilities and thus releasing it's power.

[bigolbear]

The biggest concern with druids power lvl in pen and paper is the the ability to shapeshift. Spell wise they are no more threatening than a typical divine or arcane caster.

That shapeshifting ability will be massively curtailed in ddo as we will have select forms we can shift into. This fact alone is probably enough to balance the class.

Combine this with the limitation on number of summons, and lack of certain spell combos (summon swarm + mass enlarge animal, for example) and the balance issues druids face in pen and paper will disapear in an mmo environment.

The biggest reason druid was overpowered in pen and paper is its power was only realy limited by your imagination and the dm's restrictions. Turbine as the effective DM will be placing harsh restrictions - for technical reasons if nothing else.

I direct any one interested in proof of the above to check out my things i must not do in pen and paper games thread in my sig.

[Zachski]

@Emili

>Cannot kill an animal except in self-defense

>Wears leather armor

Lolwut? That seems weird.

I much prefer the idea I have of Druid. One who still worships nature, and so naturally would understand that nature is a dog-eat-dog realm, where wild animals carve out and chop down trees (and so, the sentient races cannot be criticized for doing so), and where a Druid accepts that his role is to keep the balance of nature intact (that is, not just prevent people from cutting down too many trees, but preventing trees from overgrowing)

In other words, not a tree-hugger, just a realist.

Also, I never really liked the whole "You've gotta kill the Grand Druid to become grand druid" idea because it is such a hamper in actual game play that doesn't even make logical sense lore-wise. Imagine going through a dungeon and getting 2 level ups... that you can't take because you gotta wait until you get out of the dungeon to actually go find some druids to fight to the death in order to level up.

I would think druids would be more interested in having MORE protectors of the balance, and that the Grand Druid is a title, not the max level, that is just that, a title.

One thing I like about D&D is that you aren't the chosen ones, or the special ones. You're just adventurers that get lucky, or unlucky and die. You're not special. You're average. Having only a single level 20 druid around makes him... special. A chosen one. It completely stands out.