Why can't the "Heal" skill be used to heal oneself ?

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Hello, everyone,

One of my personal greatest riddles of DDO gaming is : Why can't a character or "toon" use the "Heal" skill for himself/herself ?

This is a thing I have never understood.

I haven't played many (A)D&D video games yet, but I think I remember that in NWN this was possible.

Which has left me wondering since I began DDO.

Implementing the Heal skill so that one can heal himself or herself would be a great benefit, imho : It would eliminate the use of health potions to some extend.

On the other hand, Healing Kits would be required to be bought.

Another mechanic I have never quite understood is, why the Heal skill can only be used for knocked out/down characters ?

I wonder because the feat ? enhancement (sorry, but I have forgot the thing's name) which makes you automatically recover from being knocked out/down imho renders the Heal skill useless.
(In my opinion *everyone* should have this "automatically recover" thing, but that's my very personal opinion.)

When my character is automatically recovering from -9 to -0 health points, then there is imho no actual neeed for the "Heal" skill.


To cut things short, my suggestion is :

Please change the "Heal" skil so that one can heal oneself, too !


Alrik

[Simplesimon1979]

What would be the difference between using a pot vs a heal kit. Ether way your still carring a stack around. Now what would get people to put points heal skill would be if it gave a bonus to how much hp you got back from a pot.

[licho]

Why heal skill dont heal?
Becouse its cool to have pleanty of stuff which is useless and nobody cares about, so there is illusion of choice, but everyone can feel smart when does the right one. ;-p

IMHO the heal/repair skills should just heal the skill value + 1d20 hitpoint. So it will be a very cheap way to regain hitpoint if not in hurry.

[Sidewaysgts86]

Heal skill =/= healing. Think of it like this: A Doctor would have a relatively high "heal skill"- But theyre not magical. They cant make you heal at an accelerated rate, they cant close your wound and make your flesh bind itself back together. They can set your bones so they heal properly, but your bones will have to heal on their own- They will not mend before your eyes. What they can do is stop you from getting worse and set you on the path to recovery, at a rate that your body physically allows.

The heal skill does 2 things for characters- it dictates how well you and those in your party recover while resting, and how good you are at dressing wounds. When you use a healers kit on an incapped ally, youre not healing them in a physically literal sense, youre dressing their wounds and stopping them from bleeding to death. You want to actually IMPROVE their physical-state at a rate not physically capable by their body? You need magic. Theres nothing "magical" about your heal-score.

Just my 02 cents. This isnt really addressing your suggestion, just explaining the logic of "why it works that way". From a game play mechanic stand point id be fine with the heal skill having a larger impact on the game- And would readily WELCOME it. The skills 2 current uses are imo worthless past about level 3.

Just for example: Id love it if the healing skill gave characters a healing amp and augmented their healing spells (if they were able to cast them). Maybe not in 1:1 ratio (ie 30 heal skill shouldnt give you a 30% healing amp AND 30% buff to healing spells, giving you some ridiculous self-healing), but having it be a crucial part in the "equation" would be nice. This not only makes the healing skill a viable choice for characters who WANT to cast heals normally anyways (cleric/fvs), it gives characters who cant a REASON to consider taking the heal skill (not to mention keeping an eye out for +heal items. Again careful consideration for balance is needed, +15 healing bracers doing almost as much healing amp as leviks bracers is a huge no-no).

[davidolson22]

Heal skill =/= healing. Think of it like this: A Doctor would have a relatively high "heal skill"- But theyre not magical. They cant make you heal at an accelerated rate, they cant close your wound and make your flesh bind itself back together. They can set your bones so they heal properly, but your bones will have to heal on their own- They will not mend before your eyes. What they can do is stop you from getting worse and set you on the path to recovery, at a rate that your body physically allows.

The heal skill does 2 things for characters- it dictates how well you and those in your party recover while resting, and how good you are at dressing wounds. When you use a healers kit on an incapped ally, youre not healing them in a physically literal sense, youre dressing their wounds and stopping them from bleeding to death. You want to actually IMPROVE their physical-state at a rate not physically capable by their body? You need magic. Theres nothing "magical" about your heal-score.

Just my 02 cents. This isnt really addressing your suggestion, just explaining the logic of "why it works that way". From a game play mechanic stand point id be fine with the heal skill having a larger impact on the game- And would readily WELCOME it. The skills 2 current uses are imo worthless past about level 3.

Just for example: Id love it if the healing skill gave characters a healing amp and augmented their healing spells (if they were able to cast them). Maybe not in 1:1 ratio (ie 30 heal skill shouldnt give you a 30% healing amp AND 30% buff to healing spells, giving you some ridiculous self-healing), but having it be a crucial part in the "equation" would be nice. This not only makes the healing skill a viable choice for characters who WANT to cast heals normally anyways (cleric/fvs), it gives characters who cant a REASON to consider taking the heal skill (not to mention keeping an eye out for +heal items. Again careful consideration for balance is needed, +15 healing bracers doing almost as much healing amp as leviks bracers is a huge no-no).

This

[Missing_Minds]

Another mechanic I have never quite understood is, why the Heal skill can only be used for knocked out/down characters ?

Because it isn't. When resting at a rest shrine, the person's with the highest heal skill near it is applied such that characters regain more HP. Constructs (aka WF and certain arti's) require repair skill for such a benefit.

That said, yeah, it isn't much, and the developers have stated they'd like to revisit it to change it to make it more useful, same with repair.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Hm, I thought that the Heal skill is an active skill ?

Now I'm confused.

I had even placed it on the "command bar". Only to find out that it is useless for me.

I don't think I'll put many points into it, because as an active still I really see not much sense in it.

[Missing_Minds]

Hm, I thought that the Heal skill is an active skill ?
Now I'm confused.
I had even placed it on the "command bar". Only to find out that it is useless for me.
I don't think I'll put many points into it, because as an active still I really see not much sense in it.

It is active and passive.

The active effect is to try to stabilize and bring a person back up from negative numbers. Heal skill is worthless on constructs/artis treated as constructs.

It is passive in how it is used at rest shrines.

Back when the cap was lvl 10, the skill was more worth while. It hasn't been worth while since the cap was 14.. 16?

[Robai]

Agreed, those skills could be made useful.

For example,
each 4 points of Heal skill = +1% healing amp (you are healed better)
and
each 4 points of Heal skill = +1% your healing power (your heal spells, potions, scrolls or wands heal better)

This could be done so that you get a bonus for each 2 points, like this
2, 6, 10, ... -each step gives +1% healing amp
4, 8, 12, ... -each step gives +1% your healing power

Similar thing for Repair skill.

Edit: Ok, Emili convinced me to put everything back to my original suggestion.
(though I prefer 4 points per +1% amp, not 5 points)

[Lorichie]

Agreed, those skills could be made useful.

For example,
each 4 points of Heal skill = +1% healing amp (you are healed better)
and
each 4 points of Heal skill = +1% your healing power (your heal spells, potions, scrolls or wands heal better)

This could be done so that you get a bonus for each 2 points, like this
2, 6, 10, ... -each step gives +1% healing amp
4, 8, 12, ... -each step gives +1% your healing power

Similar thing for Repair skill.

i'd like to see something like this too, but double it at least...only because, if i'm going to start putting skill points into skills that never mattered for six plus years, they need to be more beneficial than what i using them for now....

Also, if i need to start putting points into int, so i can get the new and improved heal skill (thinking out loud of course), that's less points than i can put elsewhere, tho tbh one less point of str/con/dex etc...we could probably live with it, if the reward was big enough...would one less con on a tanky build/or even a barbarian be worth a goodly amount of non gear healing amp...i think so...less than five percent...prolly not so much...

revisiting skills and adding a few like this would really make you think about what to use them for, instead of just balance/umd/conc etc etc...i put balance on my clerics just because there's nothing else to choose from really (of course there is, but nothing that has a profoundly bigger effect.)

just a thought,

R

[Robai]

i'd like to see something like this too, but double it at least...

Sure, updated my post.

[Flavilandile]

Because it isn't. When resting at a rest shrine, the person's with the highest heal skill near it is applied such that characters regain more HP. Constructs (aka WF and certain arti's) require repair skill for such a benefit.

That said, yeah, it isn't much, and the developers have stated they'd like to revisit it to change it to make it more useful, same with repair.

Hm, I thought that the Heal skill is an active skill ?

It's both.

The active use is to stabilize and bring back to 1HP somebody dying ( that is somebody somewhere between 0 and -9 ). It had a lot of uses in the early days of DDO.
The passive used to be great at shrines in the early days of DDO.

Nowaday, it's faster to wave a wand or read a scroll to bring back somebody from near death, and the shrines, even boosted by a heal maxed cleric, are not going to give you more HP than an Empowered Heal. So a shrine will really fall short of getting you back in shape when you're a 800HP Tank. Thus the uselessness of the skill now.
( yes I my main was maxed in Heal... until I Greater Reincarnated her [ to make her a 32 pointer ... then I put everything in Concentration. )

[PhaerV]

In D&D PnP, the Heal skill does the following (per the OGL):
*First Aid = stabilize a dying character;
*Long Term Care = regain extra hit points during rest (this is the DDO Passive effect at the Rest Shrines).

However, in the PnP Heal also does, but DDO does not:
*Treat Poison = Chance to neutralize a poison effect;
*Treat Disease = Chance to restore Ability Damage from a disease effect;

Additionally, a PnP character without the Self-Sufficient feat suffers a -5 penalty when using the Heal skill on themselves.

If the Devs wish to include Restore Hit Points (DC 15), from the d20-OGL 'Treat Injury' skill...then the Heal skill restores 1d4 hit points per use of the skill in combat.

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

please up it and soon ^^

[ThePrincipal]

convert heal skill to healing amp 1 for 1, bingo most valueable skill in the game

[Sidewaysgts86]

convert heal skill to healing amp 1 for 1, bingo most valueable skill in the game

I really want to emphasize again how much I disagree with the concept of it being 1:1- and strongly feel its too powerful when considered fully (at least to me). Its easy to think "most classes have heal as a cross-class skill. get .5 per level for 20 levels and we get a +10, or 10% healing amp- no biggie, right?". The problem i see with this is it ignore a lot of items in the game. Again we can easily find 10-15+ to heal skill bracers (currently considered cheap vendor trash or cannith crunching trash). Combine this with out 10 heal skill and now weve got a +25% healing amp. Again another problem is these come dangerously close to the power of the levik bracers. Sure the leviks are indeed stronger- But theyre also a rare [b]raid[b] drop. It becomes trivial is a piece of [b]raid[/b[ equipment is only "slightly" better.

Id like it to be half your heal skill = healing amp. That 10 heal skill becomes 5% healing amp. A simple +10 heal skill item brings us to 10%, "nice" but hardly "over powered" and game breaking by end game. At this level is becomes something "to consider", not an obvious "Youre an idiot if you dont take it!". A lot of min-maxed chars drop int and only get 1 skill point per level, 2 if theyre human. Now youve got to decide "do I want umd to use those scrolls? Should i take balance so I dont stay on my ass for every fight if i get knocked down? Or do I want that little healing amp boost.." Etc.

[bloodnose13]

i realy like the idea of makeing heal skill have heal amp % on it, fact is that it would need to fit into existing items but idea by itself is nice, as for healing kits maybe they should be useable same way as in NWN, maybe they should be useable same way as potions just with this diffrence that they can be used on others and they have use/cast time that requires user to not move, that way it would make them into perfect way of healing between fights, that could heal for more than common potions. just a thought

[Lorichie]

I really want to emphasize again how much I disagree with the concept of it being 1:1- and strongly feel its too powerful when considered fully (at least to me). Its easy to think "most classes have heal as a cross-class skill. get .5 per level for 20 levels and we get a +10, or 10% healing amp- no biggie, right?". The problem i see with this is it ignore a lot of items in the game. Again we can easily find 10-15+ to heal skill bracers (currently considered cheap vendor trash or cannith crunching trash). Combine this with out 10 heal skill and now weve got a +25% healing amp. Again another problem is these come dangerously close to the power of the levik bracers. Sure the leviks are indeed stronger- But theyre also a rare [b]raid[b] drop. It becomes trivial is a piece of [b]raid[/b[ equipment is only "slightly" better.

Id like it to be half your heal skill = healing amp. That 10 heal skill becomes 5% healing amp. A simple +10 heal skill item brings us to 10%, "nice" but hardly "over powered" and game breaking by end game. At this level is becomes something "to consider", not an obvious "Youre an idiot if you dont take it!". A lot of min-maxed chars drop int and only get 1 skill point per level, 2 if theyre human. Now youve got to decide "do I want umd to use those scrolls? Should i take balance so I dont stay on my ass for every fight if i get knocked down? Or do I want that little healing amp boost.." Etc.

Certainly there are ways we could limit it, if the consensus was that it needs it...we don't have to have +15 heal bracers, as there are now (code it differently or some such), can limit the + to three, such as umd....

i understand the thought of 1-1 being overpowered, and mebbe it is, and you mention, as i understand your thoughts, as it basically being a freebee (which i think it should be, even if only minimally) and easily added to what already exists in game...but i know i like choices...

if my heal skill will allow for a +10 bonus to healing amp, that's one less item i don't HAVE to wear, or i can and it hurts elsewhere. Them's the choices i like...just as you said at end, make some of these skills that simply aren't used and really make me choose my skills every level, instead of just balance/swim-done.

R

[psteen1]

1% per 1 skill point is way overpowered, since hitting skill levels of 50-70 are pretty common. How about 1% per 5 skill points. Then it is a nice bonus but equipment and racial enhancements are still more valuable.

[HatsuharuZ]

1% per 1 skill point is way overpowered, since hitting skill levels of 50-70 are pretty common. How about 1% per 5 skill points. Then it is a nice bonus but equipment and racial enhancements are still more valuable.

The problem with the "%" ideas is that the amp will only be noticable at high levels. I'd rather put points into something that I can use at low level as well as level cap.