Why can't the "Heal" skill be used to heal oneself ?

[Lorichie]

I really want to emphasize again how much I disagree with the concept of it being 1:1- and strongly feel its too powerful when considered fully (at least to me). Its easy to think "most classes have heal as a cross-class skill. get .5 per level for 20 levels and we get a +10, or 10% healing amp- no biggie, right?". The problem i see with this is it ignore a lot of items in the game. Again we can easily find 10-15+ to heal skill bracers (currently considered cheap vendor trash or cannith crunching trash). Combine this with out 10 heal skill and now weve got a +25% healing amp. Again another problem is these come dangerously close to the power of the levik bracers. Sure the leviks are indeed stronger- But theyre also a rare [b]raid[b] drop. It becomes trivial is a piece of [b]raid[/b[ equipment is only "slightly" better.

Id like it to be half your heal skill = healing amp. That 10 heal skill becomes 5% healing amp. A simple +10 heal skill item brings us to 10%, "nice" but hardly "over powered" and game breaking by end game. At this level is becomes something "to consider", not an obvious "Youre an idiot if you dont take it!". A lot of min-maxed chars drop int and only get 1 skill point per level, 2 if theyre human. Now youve got to decide "do I want umd to use those scrolls? Should i take balance so I dont stay on my ass for every fight if i get knocked down? Or do I want that little healing amp boost.." Etc.

Certainly there are ways we could limit it, if the consensus was that it needs it...we don't have to have +15 heal bracers, as there are now (code it differently or some such), can limit the + to three, such as umd....

i understand the thought of 1-1 being overpowered, and mebbe it is, and you mention, as i understand your thoughts, as it basically being a freebee (which i think it should be, even if only minimally) and easily added to what already exists in game...but i know i like choices...

if my heal skill will allow for a +10 bonus to healing amp, that's one less item i don't HAVE to wear, or i can and it hurts elsewhere. Them's the choices i like...just as you said at end, make some of these skills that simply aren't used and really make me choose my skills every level, instead of just balance/swim-done.

R

[Emili]

I agree that it needs a work-over.

But! I feel amp - which are class and race enhancement lines should HAVE value.... and tremendous value especially for those races with AMP enhancements... because they currently are far the MAIN reason to consider those races for those builds.

It's not hard to figure out as it currently stands in game atm you may reach above 200% AMP without being any of those races, yet we weight Horc (DPS) vs Human (AMP), looks fine and even at first, However!... comes a point in end-game now where the Humans (AMP) becomes negligable as the Horc AMP suffices thru Items to be an easily healed build - thus Human gained nothing as a race in the same build. If you add Heal Skill as another source devaluing the merits of those races.

[psteen1]

1% per 1 skill point is way overpowered, since hitting skill levels of 50-70 are pretty common. How about 1% per 5 skill points. Then it is a nice bonus but equipment and racial enhancements are still more valuable.

[HatsuharuZ]

1% per 1 skill point is way overpowered, since hitting skill levels of 50-70 are pretty common. How about 1% per 5 skill points. Then it is a nice bonus but equipment and racial enhancements are still more valuable.

The problem with the "%" ideas is that the amp will only be noticable at high levels. I'd rather put points into something that I can use at low level as well as level cap.

[Ungood]

I hate to say this, but for how lame and annoying as it is, in reality, the Heal Skill is working as intended.

Trying to make it into what some "other" MMO did with something called a "heal skill" is like asking for some buggy, hackneyed and problematic system to get put in.

Not that I do not think there were some creative solutions, but, personally I would much rather see the Heal Skill taken out of the game.

Have it so players get full life from rest shrines and 100% chance to stabilize their fellow player with a heal kit.

If we must keep this skill around, transform it into how Religious Lore works as a Background Skill that automatically advances with level so we cap it regardless.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I hate to say this, but for how lame and annoying as it is, in reality, the Heal Skill is working as intended.

According to what ? Rules ? Because I think (although I'm not 100 % sure anymore, because it's so long ago) it was possible to heal oneself in NWN1 - and that is an (A)D&D game ...

[Emili]

1% per 1 skill point is way overpowered, since hitting skill levels of 50-70 are pretty common. How about 1% per 5 skill points. Then it is a nice bonus but equipment and racial enhancements are still more valuable.

At 1% per 1 skill point I could get amp of over 65% from the skill alone on a class which the skill is not cross-class...

Even half that at 1% per 2 is silly - who'd even bother to spend AP on amp enhancements or bother with amp enhancement races? If you made it 1% every 5 levels it would not kick in until the character is in higher levels...

But even then max 23(11.5) points, bump up Wis (+4 mod) or better and a +15 heal item and you're at 30% amp cheaply <- that's 12 ap worth of amp for a bit of skill.

Who the heck would not take it over a heal amp enhancement race? Who would not take heal over other skills outside of umd?

[Emili]

According to what ? Rules ? Because I think (although I'm not 100 % sure anymore, because it's so long ago) it was possible to heal oneself in NWN1 - and that is an (A)D&D game ...

In AD&D rules most healing is done via resting... cure and heal spells used mostly after encounters as those require touch.

[Robai]

Ok, Emili convinced me to put everything back to my original suggestion.
(though I prefer 4 points per +1% amp, not 5 points)

+15 heal item would give only +3.75% amp, it's really a small bonus for an item taking a slot.
Compare that to Levik's Bracers, which gives 20%.
You can switch items of course, but I really doubt that you'll be switching items for just +3.75% amp every time before you are healed (even if it stacks).

[Ungood]

According to what ? Rules ? Because I think (although I'm not 100 % sure anymore, because it's so long ago) it was possible to heal oneself in NWN1 - and that is an (A)D&D game ...

The SRD Heal Skill rules. 3.5 edition.

I did not say I liked it, I said it was currently working as intended according to the rules.

I much would rather see "Perfect Recovery" be the standard at rest shines, and put this skill to the wayside.

If they must keep this skill in the game make it a passive progressing background skill like they did with the Lore Skills. Everyone gets it with WF getting Repair.

[Emili]

Ok, Emili convinced me to put everything back to my original suggestion.
(though I prefer 4 points per +1% amp, not 5 points)

+15 heal item would give only +3.75% amp, it's really a small bonus for an item taking a slot.
Compare that to Levik's Bracers, which gives 20%.
You can switch items of course, but I really doubt that you'll be switching items for just +3.75% amp every time before you are healed (even if it stacks).

I've nothing against it adding to AMP per-say, except there are races out their who's only major benefit be Amp. Top that off items in game are already infringing on the benefit along with class Amp...

We walk into eLoB and I find tossing a heal scroll on a totally decked out human tank for 660+ hp from my arty likewise a Horc barb in same type gear am tossin' him a 540+ ... comming from a a 110 heal scroll is a tad much, and really not much difference. Sure much of that is comming off scroll mastery but that's part of is all. Many people forget that side of the coin.

If Heal skill was adding in another 20% that human would be 792 and the Horc would be 648. Am not speaking bout the actual heal spell comming off a cleric either ... those are much much more, life magic and such adds up quick... Heather heal spell crits some people for over 3k heals, think the highest I seen be near 5k? Thus far enough that one might say takes away the use of a tank type build, replace with the barb...

Outside that... Point being except for lone non-blue bar melee chugging potions in this game healing is pretty darn OP right now... is why self healing builds are for the most part the norm. A ranger with some ardor clickie heals for 200+ off a csw, likewise a pally ... the pally loh is limited in number but becomes meh just due there are so many other better healing options... a full FvS ends up being the better pally like build.

... all skills aside from umd need a good looking at, so many were all reduced in value due aboundance of magic and item substitutes. Likewise because everything in game revolves around combat most skill play little importance within quest... perhaps they should look at utilizing differing skills as pathing in quests... like they had in partycrashers.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

The SRD Heal Skill rules. 3.5 edition.

Thanks. But it still doesn't have much sense for me, because in DDO either chars die and get resurrected or not (meaning they drink pots instead or use healing spells or are healed by others).

As it is now, "Heal" is the least useful skill to me.
And I mean within DDO.

[decease]

/signed totally agree in nwn healer kit is like out combat healing device, it take time to charge the skill. but it heal more then healing potion(which is viable in combat) it would be much much better if they have this implement in ddo. healer are always hard to find

[Doxmaster]

Trying to ask for anything is asking for some buggy, hackneyed and problematic system to get put in.

Fixed for you. This IS DDO, after all...