Melee Cleric Advice

[Syllph]

So I've got one more cleric life to grind out for the PL. I've done a pure heal bot, i've done a smiting spec'ed/necro spec'ed nuker-type. Since it's my last cleric life I figured I'd try to have a bit of fun and go melee.

I'm completionist a full range of +3 tomes and I have all the toys you could imagine

All that being said, how can I make a cleric melee? The group I'm with is static and they know I won't be healing too much so I'm free to gimp the heals and wisdom side (if that's needed)

I'm assuming I need a base 17 CHA (+3 tome) for the Divine Might Lines. It'll probably be a THF. (Though I could go monk I have lovely wraps or TWF I have a pair of lovely LitIIs.

Big questions, race and class breakdown.

I won't stay at 20 longer than about 3 sec so end game is not my goal, it's 1-19. I'm not looking to win awards for uber DPS or tank raids just some melee fun 1-19.

[ShadowFlash]

Yikes! Completionist AND all the toys! Out of my league by far I'm sure

What are your build guidlines...I.E. Playstyle?
Tactics
Pure
Slash&Spell

I would guess, with any selection of past life feats, you're gonna wanna deep splash to take a ton of feats. Do you have multiple past lives? I'd love to throw something together, just for fun, to see what the "ultimate battle-cleric" would look like

If you don't plan on hanging out at 20, then having epic toys really don't mean much...it's the smaller toys you'll need. Any weapon/race preference? GS pre-made to work in/plan around? Lots of questions...lol.

ShadowFlash

[Syllph]

Yeah I have basically every toy you could imagine and crafting level 120+ so that covers anything I'm missing.

Playstyle: Zerg extreme + selfish. I really don't make a good healer. I make a great nuker but I'm keen to play a melee again (This'll be my last melee life before doing 2 wiz/fvs/sorc/druid lives so all those fun toys are going to start collecting dust.

All past lives, 2 cleric (this'll make 3 but with only 2 active until this one finishes) and 3 ranger (made arty tons of fun).

I have loads of GS, but I think the Base Sword of Shadows while leveling outclasses them. I have wraps of night 12 and 20. a pair of all: Lit IIs, x3 Earth x3 positives and Vacuums (all khopesh).

Gear wise I could go on and on. It's mostly I don't know the 1/2 elf, orc or human (WF is fine too) and if there is some magical class break-down (like 16/2/2 something cool/something neat/something else neat. )

And any feats/enhancements I might not immediately think of.

[porq]

I've always wanted to try a Bear Shaman build, but never found the character slots or the time for it.

Basic concept is 12 cleric / 8 melee
12 cleric for the aura, and a combination of melee classes to bring more firepower to the table.
Human or helf is a good choice for the healing amp to help with aura ticks.

The original is 12 cleric / 6 barb / 2 rogue, but if you have a bunch of shiny lit2's and handwraps, maybe 6 monk or 6 fighter would work better. The playstyle is meant to pop a superior ardor clickie, pop the aura, and pop a rage and go beat stuff up.

[ArcaneMelee]

I'm having fun with my planned Helf 15 Cleric/3 Monk/2 Fighter... he's 13 now, and pretty fun to play.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Fradul TR1
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Male
(2 Fighter \ 3 Monk \ 15 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 331
Spell Points: 779 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 13
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    26
Dexterity            14                    17
Constitution         14                    18
Intelligence         10                    12
Wisdom               10                    13
Charisma             15                    20

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                    17
Bluff                 2                     5
Concentration         6                    28
Diplomacy             2                     5
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     5
Heal                  0                     3
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            2                     5
Jump                  3                     8
Listen                0                     1
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                0                     1
Spot                  0                     1
Swim                  3                     8
Tumble                n/a                   4
Use Magic Device      4                    16

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+5)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante II
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante III
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might III
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I

I'd imagine you'd want to hold off on taking 19 until you're ready to hit 20 - that's OK, the 2 fighter levels are more to keep people from expecting me to stand back and cycle Quickened Mass Heal than because they are really needed.

[ShadowFlash]

Yeah I have basically every toy you could imagine and crafting level 120+ so that covers anything I'm missing.

Playstyle: Zerg extreme + selfish. I really don't make a good healer. I make a great nuker but I'm keen to play a melee again (This'll be my last melee life before doing 2 wiz/fvs/sorc/druid lives so all those fun toys are going to start collecting dust.

All past lives, 2 cleric (this'll make 3 but with only 2 active until this one finishes) and 3 ranger (made arty tons of fun).

I have loads of GS, but I think the Base Sword of Shadows while leveling outclasses them. I have wraps of night 12 and 20. a pair of all: Lit IIs, x3 Earth x3 positives and Vacuums (all khopesh).

Gear wise I could go on and on. It's mostly I don't know the 1/2 elf, orc or human (WF is fine too) and if there is some magical class break-down (like 16/2/2 something cool/something neat/something else neat. )

And any feats/enhancements I might not immediately think of.

Excellent! I'm assuming the 3x Ranger will hold no relevance...but the extra 2 turns will be nice from cleric. I have a build half thrown together as a dwarf 12/6/2 cleric/ftr/mnk...but going human would pick up koepesh. The basic Premise is selfish, zerg, BB tossing, self healing (throw the party a bone every once in a while so they don't hate you) swapping between TWF and wraps situationally....with a decent DP thrown in as well....AND room for a past life feat or 2 (I took FvS searing light...fun to level with when you spec some light in).

I think I could adapt it to Half-Orc THF, and just use monk for evasion/feats. With your past-lives, It's likely there will be times leveling that your offensive spells could even be useful to mix things up This Split should give you decent AC/survivability while leveling as well.

As long as yer in no hurry, I'll throw it together in the next day or 2 if you're interested.

FYI, a properly built battle-cleric is only slightly behind a Kensai II....and gets all the cleric goodies

ShadowFlash

[wax_on_wax_off]

One option not mentioned is a 10k stars Arcane Archer cleric like the build plan I have [here. You probably know from your Artificer lives the joy of kiting through blade barriers - it works with cleric too!

For pure leveling purposes you could replace the 1 wizard level with 2 ranger to pick up a small amount of melee (good synergy with stunning fist).

With all your toys the 10k stars will really shine with the higher wisdom score that you can obtain powering 10k stars. IPS is fit mainly for epic questing so it (and PS) could be skipped for completionist and improved critical:ranged or something similar.

You'll never need 20 charisma as DMIV is only available at level 20 which is when you TR, 18 charisma (15+3 tome) is all that is needed - if you have 15 cleric levels before level 20).

12 to 13 seems a pretty good cut off for your purposes, hit them quickly to blade barrier kite etc, possibly only need 11 before fitting what ever other levels you have planned.

[ShadowFlash]

I'm assuming you don't want a YAM build ( yet another monkcher ) or you wouldn't be asking for melee....

Here's a rough, rough, rough, rough draft of what I have so far...

Playstyle:
Ultra-selfish...You are NOT a healer...You will not turtle-up and scroll/wand whip...You will kick @$$ and complete even if everyone else is long dead...

I have a metric TON of tweaking to do, so don't take this as a final build suggestion, but what are your thoughts so far? I didn't take Kensai I even though you qualify, because it would only be available at 20, so who cares...maximizing the leveling process is what counts.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Orc Male
(6 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 12 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 382
Spell Points: 606 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 11
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             20                    34
Dexterity             9                    14
Constitution         17                    22
Intelligence          7                    12
Wisdom                8                    13
Charisma             11                    18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance              -1                     4
Bluff                 0                     6
Concentration         3                     8
Diplomacy             0                     6
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                0                     6
Heal                 -1                     5
Hide                 -1                     4
Intimidate            0                     8
Jump                  5                    14
Listen               -1                     3
Move Silently        -1                     4
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -2                     4
Search               -2                     4
Spot                 -1                     3
Swim                  5                    14
Tumble               n/a                    n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Completionist
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Berserker's Fury
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Sunder
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost III
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I

I can shift this any direction you want, just let me know

ShadowFlash

[Syllph]

Good stuff, It's like 1am here so I'll check the bulk of it out when I can see straight. Thanks wax for the CHA bit I didn't even notice that.

I'll check all of them out in full Monday morning.

thanks again!

[Syllph]

I like the THF one but why Stunning fist? It didn't look like I'm taking the fighter prestige, so 6 just to fill in the gap? I'm assuming 2 monk for evasion?

[PNellesen]

I TR'd my main into a Horc Cleric w/ Fighter splash and have been having quite a bit of fun with him. Plan is to go 19C/1F, with THF feats and Horc fighting/str enhancements. So far (he's 11C/1F now) it's worked out well. Has no trouble healing the party, and can do some real damage in melee. If you're looking for an alternative to a clonk build, it's something to consider.

[ShadowFlash]

I like the THF one but why Stunning fist? It didn't look like I'm taking the fighter prestige, so 6 just to fill in the gap? I'm assuming 2 monk for evasion?

Look again...Stunning BLOW, not fist with your top notch strength, and awesome twink gear, you should have no problem landing it while leveling. 2 Monk for the feats mainly...evasion is a bonus if you can get your reflex save up. Fighter Prestige wouldn't come until 20, prioritizing the cleric aura early, so yeah...6 fighter to fill in the gap. Likewise Improved sunder, while nice...is really just an unused feat at 20.

ShadowFlash

[Syllph]

Look again...Stunning BLOW, not fist with your top notch strength, and awesome twink gear, you should have no problem landing it while leveling. 2 Monk for the feats mainly...evasion is a bonus if you can get your reflex save up. Fighter Prestige wouldn't come until 20, prioritizing the cleric aura early, so yeah...6 fighter to fill in the gap. Likewise Improved sunder, while nice...is really just an unused feat at 20.

ShadowFlash

i see, good calls.

[ThePrincipal]

I think you'll be happy with what a 20 cleric can do melee-wise. It's also much easier to pug with a pure cleric.

You'll want to hit 20 cha, for full ranks in divine might for the +8 damage. I would suggest 16 starting +3 tome from the store, and 1 level up for the 20. or +2 tome from the AH and 2 level ups.

max AP and gear towards getting more turns. Turns will power the DMIV, Aura, and Bursts which you will need to do a lost of aura/burst healing since you'll take a hit in the sp department with the lower wis.

Like a THF Pally, at creation you'll need Str, Con, and Cha with just the minimum level of wis to cast.

To be an effective healer you'll need at least empower healing, maximize, and quicken

To be make melee worthwhile, you'll need toughness, 3 combat feats, and power attack. That's your 8 feats (human). You can scroll master's touch (with ur big Cha bonus),

You loose your DC based damage spells but still have full heals, maximized BB and DP.

[axel15810]

How much does a melee cleric with full DM hit for at cap? I've seen a lot of arguments over whether DM is worth it, I don't have it on my dwarf 19 cleric/ 1 fighter. He's also a party healer though. I would think dumping strength would cause hit issues but I guess you would be ok with divine power/divine favor?

[ShadowFlash]

i see, good calls.

I haven't forgot about ya Syllph had RL family court issues today so last night was spent filling out legal papers. I should have time tomorrow to give a better feat/skill/enhancement/leveling progression if you still need it! Last chance to add any requirements in for me

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@everyone joining in...while I can't speak for the OP, he does say that this is a melee focused, zerging, selfish, sucky healer, static (I assume TR group) kind of playstyle that will not spend any time at cap. Normal considerations do not apply here. It makes for a wild build for sure, and I'm assuming his static group is plenty capable of surviving without what most people consider mandatory for a divine (such as mass AP spent on smiting and PUG healing).

It would be nice if someone else could post him an alternate build to accomplish those same goals More choices never hurt anyone!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts on DM....

+++Excellent damage booster. Maybe the best even at Tier III (+6). No negative side effects. A "powered-Up" CHA based battle-cleric is fierce indeed!

- - - Gearing, clickies (or helpful running-mates), DP+DV+recitation(mandatory)+ a helpful bard just to maintain to-hit while leveling, AND an absolute HORRENDOUS casting time of DM, means most fights are over before you start swinging. For a zerging playstyle, I just can't imagine any form of DM working well. Heck, I'm traditionally a "drunken flower-sniffer" (who has DM III) and I rarely use DM just for those reasons. A patient, strategizing, Roleplaying kinda group...Heck Yeah! .....Zerging TR group...no way.

P.S. > notice the OP has 2 previous cleric lives adding 2 extra turns off the bat.

ShadowFlash

[erikbozelie]

i suggest you go 2 monk, 1 roque.

1d6 + 11 base sneak attack dmg as a halfling on unarmed strikes.
get greater two weapon fighting with full bab if divine power is running & haste boost gives you a hell if a hit rate.
then ramp up the damage with gear.

spiked gloves from cc, or tharns goggles, 2 tod sets with elemental bursts.
mabar wraps if you have them.
power attack .

you can get insane damage if you use stunning fist on top of that.
you dont need to dump wisdom, actually max it out. together with some dex. you could reach a 80+ ac.

[Enoach]

Personally I like the 20 Cleric Half-Elf with Sorc/Wiz Dil (Sorc until Int is 13 to qualify)

Reasons:
Master Touch Scrolls <- Not useful for Two-handed weapons, makes all single handed Martial weapons and the Tower Shield a viable option

Other arcane buffs - GH, Fireshield, blur, displacement, haste scrolls (much cheaper than potions, however each use you will be sharing with anyone in range)

Also means you don't have to spend points in UMD if you don't wan't to.


However,
Taking the Fighter Dil will get you Martial Weapons proficiency.
Taking the Barbarian Dil could net you more HP with Class Toughness Enhancements and a Con Enhancement and give you some innate DR