UltiCleric

[Mubjon]

This is for a friend that asked that I build him a cleric build that could offensive cast/heal and when SP are low or when solo'ing melee some. Before I send it to him though I thought I would get some input from others that are on the forums in case I missed something.

He wanted a Human and does not have monk and he is going to try to get that name so don't ask

So with that this is what I came up with, the build will give him 20% damage to blade barrier, over 2K SP at cap and once he gets the gear he needs should be over 500 hp as well. It will let him melee at times that it is needed, especially low levels. He is looking to start this character next weekend when he gets back from his trip for work so plenty of time to discuss it.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

UtliCleric 
Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 18 Cleric \ 1 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 340
Spell Points: 1373 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 6
Will: 22

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    14
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom               16                    28
Charisma             12                    16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    10
Bluff                 1                     3
Concentration         7                    28
Diplomacy             1                     3
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                    14
Heal                  3                    11
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate            1                     3
Jump                  1                     9
Listen                3                     9
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                1                     2
Spot                  3                     9
Swim                  1                     2
Tumble                1                     2
Use Magic Device      3                    14

Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Flame Manipulation I


Level 2 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I


Level 13 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 14 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II

I am pretty sure he will be well over 500 hp and 2K SP at cap with this setup and that he will be able to heal any raid, possible solo heal if he gets comfortable with his role as a Divine. Did I miss any important feats? Maybe swap some feats around at different levels? I think the points where I take the different classes makes the most sense to help with feats and make the character a bit more sturdy while leveling.

ETA: He has the tomes listed already and he might build some greensteel for this character. Right now he is a Fighter so he has Kopeshes and decent tower shields.

[Cardtrick]

I am pretty sure he will be well over 500 hp and 2K SP at cap with this setup and that he will be able to heal any raid, possible solo heal if he gets comfortable with his role as a Divine. Did I miss any important feats? Maybe swap some feats around at different levels? I think the points where I take the different classes makes the most sense to help with feats and make the character a bit more sturdy while leveling.

ETA: He has the tomes listed already and he might build some greensteel for this character. Right now he is a Fighter so he has Kopeshes and decent tower shields.

Given that monk isn't an option, this looks like a decent hybrid caster/melee cleric. Starting at only 16 Wisdom is a bit painful, but probably the best option.

I would drop khopesh and swap it for Improved Critical: Slashing, though. That's a pretty essential DPS feat (scimitar with IC:Slashing beats khopesh without). More importantly, at cap melee damage is going to be pretty low on this guy, but with IC:Slashing, Divine Power, Divine Favor, and Fighter Haste Boot I (which you should take), he could still be very effective at instant-killing with a Terror.

Or you might consider dropping spell penetration and keeping both khopesh and IC:Slashing. With a splash build, only one spell pen feat, no past lives, and no spell pen enhancements, you're going to be failing against most things that have spell resistance at all. May as well drop the feat if it's not going to help much anyway.

[Tsuarok]

with the low strength, the khopesh won't be much better than a scimitar -- probably not worth the feat.

I think you'll get more mileage out of SF: Evocation than SF: Necro. BB and Implosion vs harm and destruction

All in all good build though

[ArcaneMelee]

... More importantly, at cap melee damage is going to be pretty low on this guy, but with IC:Slashing, Divine Power, Divine Favor, and Fighter Haste Boot I (which you should take), he could still be very effective at instant-killing with a Terror...

Just don't be surprised when they nerf Terror. Complaining about the nerf on the forums would be OK - I'm sure you'll have a lot of company.

[Cardtrick]

Just don't be surprised when they nerf Terror. Complaining about the nerf on the forums would be OK - I'm sure you'll have a lot of company.

I'm not sure it needs nerfing. A melee with Terror still can't kill trash half as fast as a caster, and it's useless for boss fights. All it does is help level the playing field a bit.

I think it would be a mistake to nerf it, but if they do, they do. Other things have been nerfed before, and will be again. The difference is that when most of those other things (vorpals, level-draining autocrits, stat damagers, etc.) were nerfed, casters were much weaker and melees dominated the endgame.

Remember, too, that another weapon with Terror's effect was added fairly recently, so I don't think the devs are moving in the direction of eliminating it. If anything, I half-expect some other nerfed effects to be unnerfed (vorpal/disruption/banishing, especially -- although maybe with a save on the death effect).

Regardless, I still think Improved Critical is a better feat than EWP:Khopesh, even from a purely DPS perspective.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Reduce constitution to 14, increase strength and charisma to 14.

Current feat list: Maximise, Spell Focus: Necromancy, Toughness, Empower Healing Spell, Empower Spell, Shield Mastery, Spell Penetration, Quicken Spell, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh, Heighten.

Drop: Spell Focus: Necromancy and Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
Get 2 of: Greater Spell Penetration, Power Attack and Improved Critical: Slashing.

Quicken can be taken at level 18 (it's only needed for mass heal).
Heighten is good from level 9 to 12.
Spell Penetration Feats can be taken at 12 and 15.

[Tsuarok]

Reduce constitution to 14, increase strength and charisma to 14.

Current feat list: Maximise, Spell Focus: Necromancy, Toughness, Empower Healing Spell, Empower Spell, Shield Mastery, Spell Penetration, Quicken Spell, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh, Heighten.

Drop: Spell Focus: Necromancy and Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
Get 2 of: Greater Spell Penetration, Power Attack and Improved Critical: Slashing.

Quicken can be taken at level 18 (it's only needed for mass heal).
Heighten is good from level 9 to 12.
Spell Penetration Feats can be taken at 12 and 15.

With 14 str I'd vote for the IC: slashing and GSP. Hitting will be hard enough without the -5.

[ShadowFlash]

Quicken can be taken at level 18 (it's only needed for mass heal)

Gotta disagree here a bit. Never again will I wait until 18 for quicken on a Cleric. 15 is a better spot. The sole reason I have for this is Bursting. Right around Level 15 bursting feels painfully slow, and is usually your most efficient "mass cure". A maximized, Empowered, Empowered Heal, and Quickened Burst at Level 15 will get you through many a tough spots, especially with your level progression (spell levels and SP) pushed back with the splashes.

ShadowFlash

[wax_on_wax_off]

Gotta disagree here a bit. Never again will I wait until 18 for quicken on a Cleric. 15 is a better spot. The sole reason I have for this is Bursting. Right around Level 15 bursting feels painfully slow, and is usually your most efficient "mass cure". A maximized, Empowered, Empowered Heal, and Quickened Burst at Level 15 will get you through many a tough spots, especially with your level progression (spell levels and SP) pushed back with the splashes.

ShadowFlash

Burst in uninterruptible though so it's marginal either way. The main reason that I recommend to defer quicken is that I've met too many players who have quicken on all the time and can't bare the thought of playing without it. Quicken is a situational feat that should generally only be used in epic quests except for a few specific spells (ottos ball, mass heal, symbol spells) and the rest of the time a well maintained concentration score will be much better (damage from mobs is generally of a level appropriate range to allow no-fail concentration checks if it is maintained well - inner focus item, max ranks, universal skill boosts etc).

Quicken can quickly become a crutch that is hard to shake, better to learn without it and then you can put it on and off as appropriate. Not to say that quicken isn't good, that's the point really.

[ShadowFlash]

Burst in uninterruptible though so it's marginal either way. The main reason that I recommend to defer quicken is that I've met too many players who have quicken on all the time and can't bare the thought of playing without it. Quicken is a situational feat that should generally only be used in epic quests except for a few specific spells (ottos ball, mass heal, symbol spells) and the rest of the time a well maintained concentration score will be much better (damage from mobs is generally of a level appropriate range to allow no-fail concentration checks if it is maintained well - inner focus item, max ranks, universal skill boosts etc).

Quicken can quickly become a crutch that is hard to shake, better to learn without it and then you can put it on and off as appropriate. Not to say that quicken isn't good, that's the point really.

Absolutely agree 100% on the quicken crutch. Like I said, the difference in cast time of the burst is HUGE with quicken enabled. That is the one and ONLY reason I would take it at 15 (or even 12)...and yes, I still think it's worth it just for that reason. I would actually consider timing quicken so as soon as you get your burst you have it, but that's a little extreme. I would leave quicken "off" and set bursts to "always on" until higher levels for sure. Splashing those 2 levels on a cleric means you just don't have the oomph (lower level spells and lack of SP's) for your mass cures at those levels. Things are getting tougher, and in raids, ya gotta be quick....bursts are your go-to answer for these scenarios. Running DQ without quickened bursts sucks...period. It is a game-changer at those levels. By the time you get mass heal (level 19 in this case)...bursts are obsolete for the most part, as your aura is the ticket at high levels.

ShadowFlash

[painkiller3]

Burst in uninterruptible though so it's marginal either way. The main reason that I recommend to defer quicken is that I've met too many players who have quicken on all the time and can't bare the thought of playing without it. Quicken is a situational feat that should generally only be used in epic quests except for a few specific spells (ottos ball, mass heal, symbol spells) and the rest of the time a well maintained concentration score will be much better (damage from mobs is generally of a level appropriate range to allow no-fail concentration checks if it is maintained well - inner focus item, max ranks, universal skill boosts etc).

Quicken can quickly become a crutch that is hard to shake, better to learn without it and then you can put it on and off as appropriate. Not to say that quicken isn't good, that's the point really.

agreed

only spell i take quicken for is mass heal...you can work without it

Craig

[Mubjon]

I agree that Monk would be a better fit with a Cleric that wanted to do what he wants to do. It is unfortunate that he does not have that class available to him at this time.

What if he TR'd from fighter to this? Not sure if he wants to do that, but wouldn't that solve the issue with increasing strength or Charisma?

I had to look, but I though implosion did not have a spell resistance check, which it does. So then it would make sense to take both spell pen feats to add 4 to implosion. Would he be better served with SF: Evo and GSF: Evo than the other feats mentioned as alternatives?

As far as the kopesh goes, I selected that feat for him due to him having a lot of kopeshes at hand to pass down meaning he would not have to craft any new weapons. I guess if he does not mind he could get by and that would mean one feat could go to maybe make room for GSF: Evo. I know that he can get it on equipment so maybe he would not need to take that feat either.

I am not 100% sold on Power attack for this build though, yes the extra damage would be nice. Honestly though his melee will be a third duty and only when he is solo or low on SP. Would it make that much of a difference if he did go with Scimitars (I like this suggestion in place of kopesh) and IC: Slash? Espcially if he uses DR breakers or the appropriate weapon for the quest? Granted that would mean he would have 5 to 6 different weapons that he carries, but as a fighter I imagine he carries that many now.

I will hold off a bit on modifying the build with those suggestions that make the most sense and most of them are making a lot of sense as I think about them.

[Mubjon]

Reduce constitution to 14, increase strength and charisma to 14.

Current feat list: Maximise, Spell Focus: Necromancy, Toughness, Empower Healing Spell, Empower Spell, Shield Mastery, Spell Penetration, Quicken Spell, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh, Heighten.

Drop: Spell Focus: Necromancy and Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
Get 2 of: Greater Spell Penetration, Power Attack and Improved Critical: Slashing.

Quicken can be taken at level 18 (it's only needed for mass heal).
Heighten is good from level 9 to 12.
Spell Penetration Feats can be taken at 12 and 15.

I like quicken where it is at on my clerics as if anyone in the cleric role pugs the melee at those levels never seem to have heavy fortification or damage reduction so it is nice to be able to get that off a few seconds in the heat of battle.

I never use heighten at those levels so much like power attack if i take it i wait til level 15 or 18 to take it.

[Mubjon]

Alright so I took the advice here and reworked the build. I did not take divine might, although he would be able to if he chose too up to DM II. I took Human versatility for the +3 to attack, I will make the recommendation that if he wants IC:slash or Power attack that he drops the Greater Spell pen and take the spell pen feats along with the 20% bonus to force and untyped damage for blade barrier. I did change the +3 tome of constitution to charisma figured he could trade for one so he could get even Charisma.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 18 Cleric \ 1 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 290
Spell Points: 1373 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 6
Will: 22

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    16
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom               16                    28
Charisma             14                    20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    11
Bluff                 2                     5
Concentration         6                    26
Diplomacy             2                     8
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                    16
Heal                  3                    11
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate            2                     5
Jump                  2                     7
Listen                3                     9
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                1                     2
Spot                  3                     9
Swim                  2                     3
Tumble                1                     2
Use Magic Device      4                    16

Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I


Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II


Level 13 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III

[wax_on_wax_off]

I still can't help but think that a half-elf pure cleric with fighter dilettante would be a better build. Even half-orc.

[good_ole_corwin]

IMHO, and I might hit a wall with it here, if youre splashing, not maxing wis and want to be effective at melee at endgame (meaning you cant equip as a full-on caster either), I would just forget about spell pen. Even with the feats you wont get it nearly 100% reliable (in epics, probably even elite Amrath) so debuffing will be less SP-efficient (repeat casts often needed) and you wont have the DCs to CC or instakill non-debuffed mobs either, so I would just use your SP for nuking with BB - which will be effective even without heightening it (saves SP) and wouldnt really be necessary for you to have SF: Evo either.

Now if you free up those 3 feats, you could take power attack, improved sunder and WF:Slashing. PA = more melee dmg on trash (on bosses you will probably need to turn it off), especially while levelling you will feel the extra 10 dmg on a two-hander hit. WF helps offset both the PA penalty and lower starting strength, with a +2 str tome, divine favor and hage, you should hit ok on trash (you have DP for bosses). And improved sunder gives the mob a -3 fort save when you hit it, so instead of lvl draining casters before destruction for example, just hit them in the face once and then kill them...

Of course you can compromise and not take the weapon focus and keep either a spell pen or SF (I would lean towards necro however, because I honestly find the targetted instakills - destruction and slay living - to provide more utility, if not fun, than fancy implosions).

[Mubjon]

IMHO, and I might hit a wall with it here, if youre splashing, not maxing wis and want to be effective at melee at endgame (meaning you cant equip as a full-on caster either), I would just forget about spell pen. Even with the feats you wont get it nearly 100% reliable (in epics, probably even elite Amrath) so debuffing will be less SP-efficient (repeat casts often needed) and you wont have the DCs to CC or instakill non-debuffed mobs either, so I would just use your SP for nuking with BB - which will be effective even without heightening it (saves SP) and wouldnt really be necessary for you to have SF: Evo either.

Now if you free up those 3 feats, you could take power attack, improved sunder and WF:Slashing. PA = more melee dmg on trash (on bosses you will probably need to turn it off), especially while levelling you will feel the extra 10 dmg on a two-hander hit. WF helps offset both the PA penalty and lower starting strength, with a +2 str tome, divine favor and hage, you should hit ok on trash (you have DP for bosses). And improved sunder gives the mob a -3 fort save when you hit it, so instead of lvl draining casters before destruction for example, just hit them in the face once and then kill them...

Of course you can compromise and not take the weapon focus and keep either a spell pen or SF (I would lean towards necro however, because I honestly find the targetted instakills - destruction and slay living - to provide more utility, if not fun, than fancy implosions).

I would agree with you on the wis score, but honestly it will not be that low at end game.

28 base (+6 item, +2 ship buff, +1 litany, +3 exceptional) = 40

I know that my buddy has the litany already so he should be able to reliably hit 40 Wisdom by cap. 40 or 42 on a first life cleric is not that huge of a big deal and 42 I think is about as high as you can get without any lengthy grinding. And honestly on elite amarath or epics anything that does fail their save on an implosion is a bonus, I doubt he will spam cast it anyway and will just hit it to see what can be taken out as they zerg to the end to fight the boss.

I do agree that slay living and destruction is more fun but, this is a first time playing a cleric for this guy and I will explain to him the changes he could make to the build if he wants to go a different route or he can find the build here on the forums with the name he gave me.

[good_ole_corwin]

Sorry, forgot that theres a +3 wis tome in the plan and you didnt mention Litany in the initial post, which of course makes a difference... As much so that I wanna say its almost a crime not to make him full-on caster specced and get his wis to 44 :-D or rather get him a 2nd tier alchemical (not as much of a grind, really - definitely less than a tier 3 GS without buying larges IMHO), call it a 46 with yugo pots and get his DCs up to 39 without even spending any feats, hmm, yummy... Yummy? Hmm, food...

Eh, getting carried away here, sorry. Melee, splashes, yeah, back on track.

Speaking of yugo pots, make sure he invests the time and gets the favor before TRing, having a stash of pots that give you "20 + char lvl" bonus to HPs and +1 to DCs (or +1 to-hit and dmg) makes a lot of difference. And if you insist on a SF feat, I again strongly recommend necro instead of evocation. Its not just about targetted instakills, its also about debuffs (curse + symbol of pain) that are even useful in boss fights.

Also, I would consider dropping the charisma enhancements and improve his spell pen. You are already spending 2 feats on it; the 6 APs in charisma enhancements get you only 1 additional turn attempt (and +1 to UMD, admittedly), but could get another +2 spell pen. If you consider the spell pen of the build as you presented enough, you can still drop the charisma, take 2 tiers of spell pen enhancements and swap one of the spell pen feats for extra turns - netting you the same spell pen as before, but 3 more turns in comparison (while losing 1 UMD).

[Mubjon]

Sorry, forgot that theres a +3 wis tome in the plan and you didnt mention Litany in the initial post, which of course makes a difference... As much so that I wanna say its almost a crime not to make him full-on caster specced and get his wis to 44 :-D or rather get him a 2nd tier alchemical (not as much of a grind, really - definitely less than a tier 3 GS without buying larges IMHO), call it a 46 with yugo pots and get his DCs up to 39 without even spending any feats, hmm, yummy... Yummy? Hmm, food...

I am sorry I did not mention the litany it was there in my notes of equipment he had and I just forgot to mention it. I will make mention of the alchemical for the extra wisdom, and he might just decide to go full wisdom and drop something to get to 18 to start. This is more of a guide for him because he likes my Cleric that has a 1 splash of wizard in it and as i am thinking of taking that one to another wizard and sorc past lives before coming back to a cleric (bad habit I have with my clerics) he was thinking of making a cleric to still run with us.

[quote]Eh, getting carried away here, sorry. Melee, splashes, yeah, back on track.

Speaking of yugo pots, make sure he invests the time and gets the favor before TRing, having a stash of pots that give you "20 + char lvl" bonus to HPs and +1 to DCs (or +1 to-hit and dmg) makes a lot of difference. And if you insist on a SF feat, I again strongly recommend necro instead of evocation. Its not just about targetted instakills, its also about debuffs (curse + symbol of pain) that are even useful in boss fights. /quote]

I will make sure I make mention of this suggestions to him. I am not sure if he will TR or not, if he does that will give him 2 more build points to spend on the build, which will help keep the constitution up or add more to strength or charisma.

Also, I would consider dropping the charisma enhancements and improve his spell pen. You are already spending 2 feats on it; the 6 APs in charisma enhancements get you only 1 additional turn attempt (and +1 to UMD, admittedly), but could get another +2 spell pen. If you consider the spell pen of the build as you presented enough, you can still drop the charisma, take 2 tiers of spell pen enhancements and swap one of the spell pen feats for extra turns - netting you the same spell pen as before, but 3 more turns in comparison (while losing 1 UMD).

I used the charisma to qualify for RS II, extra turn, extra UMD just seemed right. But, this is a good suggestion I think. And will include this in the final write up here that I will do for him tomorrow before emailing it to him. Unless someone comes up with something I am missing horribly that will alter the build to make it better.

If he can get monk I would have suggested an 18/2 build as that is one of my favorite splits.

[Mubjon]

I am writing up the email to my buddy here and plan to send it tomorrow, but I was thinking I could make some suggestions on cannith challenge weapons for him. I have yet to really do the challenges or the quests in cannith so I am not 100% sure if he has to get the blanks first from the raid or how this works.

So any help here? And what weapon or weapons should he concentrate on first?