remove the "close-to-immune" stat-damage in epic?

[Jay203]

now that stat damage has been changed so 0 con doesn't mean death and helplessness doesn't mean auto crit...
can we remove the ultra resistance to stat damage from epics now?
at least that we we can drain their dex to lower their AC, weaken their str to screw with their damage, sap their con to lower their health, and eat their brain for ***** and giggles?

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

i agree to this, would really help certain ~eh hem~ builds ~cough cough~

[Asmodeus451]

con damage/level drain still works quite well on epic mobs:

Mob HP: 3500/3500

LEVEL DRAIN

Mob HP: 2000/2000

LEVEL RESTORED

Mob HP: 2000/3500


current hp falls with max, but doesnt recover when the max hp recovers AFAIK

[Jaid314]

con damage/level drain still works quite well on epic mobs:

Mob HP: 3500/3500

LEVEL DRAIN

Mob HP: 2000/2000

LEVEL RESTORED

Mob HP: 2000/3500


current hp falls with max, but doesnt recover when the max hp recovers AFAIK

1) that's not con damage.

2) that's not the thing he's suggesting to change.

currently, epic mobs have something like a 90-95% chance to ignore stat damage, such as that dealt by a wounding of puncturing weapon, or poison, or insanity (a greatsword that deals wisdom damage iirc).

this was originally needed because once upon a time you could use a wounding of puncturing weapon, damage the enemy down to 0 con, and they would die. that was changed so that they would become helpless. sort of. they actually just get dazed for a few seconds, then they can run around, melee stuff (but not cast spells last i checked) and still take helpless damage and are subject to sneak attacks etc. really, it's a kinda screwy situation.

regardless, point being... now that helpless doesn't mean autocrit, and 0 con doesn't mean instant death, it really isn't even necessary to have stat damage resistance.

[ferrite]

Actually..

I agree. There should always be more than one way to kill a mob besides raw damage. By nerfing to the point they have, Turbine has pigeonholed themselves into this corner, forcing players to adapt by creating high damage builds and not much else. Everything else besides damage is, in fact, frowned upon at the moment.

Saps the creativity right out of the game. If you want players to get creative, then you need to allow for various methods of defeating mobs, including stat damage.

There are *other* ways of managing the abuse of stat damage besides outright nerfing. As a developer, all you need to do is put your thinking cap on instead of the itchy trigger finger on the nerf button.

/signed

[Jaid314]

Actually..

I agree. There should always be more than one way to kill a mob besides raw damage. By nerfing to the point they have, Turbine has pigeonholed themselves into this corner, forcing players to adapt by creating high damage builds and not much else. Everything else besides damage is, in fact, frowned upon at the moment.

Saps the creativity right out of the game. If you want players to get creative, then you need to allow for various methods of defeating mobs, including stat damage.

There are *other* ways of managing the abuse of stat damage besides outright nerfing. As a developer, all you need to do is put your thinking cap on instead of the itchy trigger finger on the nerf button.

/signed

for the most part, it isn't really abusable any more. i've used a pair of WoP weapons. they're still quite nice, as after a couple of seconds of fighting many things they will go down to 0 con and become helpless and stunned for a few seconds.

but they are not really all that awe-inspiring either. they're nice for the character that used them, because it was a first-life rogue assassin dual-wielding one WoP rapier and one Wo(Seeker +8) rapier, and i could use it to get mobs to the point of sneak attack quickly so it helped with damage a bit (and of course, since my damage outside of sneak attack wasn't all that great, damaging con to lower HP was a nice benefit as well). but they were hardly the absolute best choice. they were simply the best i had available at the time, and they happened to synergize very well with the character.

if stat damage works in epics, you won't see *everyone* using them. you'll see a small selection of people using them, and most people using something better.

[licho]

/Signed

Death on stat=0 is little to much, but helpless is a fair trade.
If smbd is gimoing his dps for good of party or some savvy reason (like rogue sa) there should be reward.
The reward is ability to bring even epic mob into 0 and helpless and as such minor crowd control. Still nothing arcanes can do with one spell, but at least some input in other way than just moar dps. There should be such a way avaiable.

Also once the mobds can be bring to stat 0 make them stay there for a while, since so far it seems that they recover a couple of seconds after that.

[Jay203]

if i remember correctly don't the epic mobs recover from stat damage and neg lvl faster than regular mobs too?

[Gorbadoc]

Actually..

I agree. There should always be more than one way to kill a mob besides raw damage. By nerfing to the point they have, Turbine has pigeonholed themselves into this corner, forcing players to adapt by creating high damage builds and not much else. Everything else besides damage is, in fact, frowned upon at the moment.

Saps the creativity right out of the game. If you want players to get creative, then you need to allow for various methods of defeating mobs, including stat damage.

There are *other* ways of managing the abuse of stat damage besides outright nerfing. As a developer, all you need to do is put your thinking cap on instead of the itchy trigger finger on the nerf button.

/signed

Epics by their very nature favor optimization and grinding. I'll extend this to regular quests, though: the game favors damage and doesn't do enough to encourage other abilities. Killing a monster faster with hp damage is the way to go. Who needs improved crowd control or healing? The faster the monster dies, the less it can hurt you.

I realize that crowd control and healing are still useful. I just feel like DPS and insta-kill spells have gained more and more of the spotlight over the years. Stat damage is one technique among many that have been upstaged.

[TekkenDevil]

I'd like to see this happen as long as it doesn't gimp raid bosses.
It's no fun to have bosses be immune to 90% of your special attacks in an RPG game.
If it could be solved that more stat-affecting enchantments and spells would proc on raid bosses, without necessarily making the battle much easier, it would make for extra clever planning involved, much like how you prepare your DR breakers for each quest.

It's pretty lame to achieve all these items and powers as you progress with your character, only for them to be rendered completely useless when you'd really need them.

[Scraap]

I'd like to see this happen as long as it doesn't gimp raid bosses.
It's no fun to have bosses be immune to 90% of your special attacks in an RPG game.
If it could be solved that more stat-affecting enchantments and spells would proc on raid bosses, without necessarily making the battle much easier, it would make for extra clever planning involved, much like how you prepare your DR breakers for each quest.

It's pretty lame to achieve all these items and powers as you progress with your character, only for them to be rendered completely useless when you'd really need them.

They actually already addressed the raid-boss bit a while back. That red shield icon that'll occasionally pop up on a red-name is someone using a stat-damager and hitting the damage cap. 10 points worth of debuff iirc.

/signed, as usual.

[Jay203]

They actually already addressed the raid-boss bit a while back. That red shield icon that'll occasionally pop up on a red-name is someone using a stat-damager and hitting the damage cap. 10 points worth of debuff iirc.

/signed, as usual.

as for raid boss shields
i'd like to see that changed so the cap is 50% of the boss' stats
10 pts out of the ultra inflated endgame is like scratching them with a feather

[Orratti]

Well this would be a great help to casters as lowering their dex, wis, and con would lower their reflex,will, and fort saves making it easier to get that spell to hit saving them mana and increasing their kill count. Way to go with the flow. I like it.

[Yan_PL]

That would make many tasks trivial.