Artificer - Bastard Sword?

[Boromirs]

Does the Artificer work with the bastard sword now or is it just crossbow viable? If so, what kind of gear setup would work?

[sirgog]

I don't think anyone has made an impressive melee-ficer yet. Hope to eventually be proven wrong.

[Zyerz]

I don't think anyone has made an impressive melee-ficer yet. Hope to eventually be proven wrong.

I've been working on a TWF arti. It's working fine as a melee DPS support role. Sure, you trade in runearms and ranged weps for dual longswords, but you get that +2 to your weps, always have DR and extra dmg spells, and a nice fighting companion. Although, its a feat heavy build, so its taking a while to properly build. I'm thinking of splashing 2 levels of monk for the evasion, AC and stances to boost stats that I had to sacrifice when building the toon. Its still in the prototype phase. Thinking this build will function better if the toon is a 2nd life TR.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I've been working on a TWF arti. It's working fine as a melee DPS support role. Sure, you trade in runearms and ranged weps for dual longswords, but you get that +2 to your weps, always have DR and extra dmg spells, and a nice fighting companion. Although, its a feat heavy build, so its taking a while to properly build. I'm thinking of splashing 2 levels of monk for the evasion, AC and stances to boost stats that I had to sacrifice when building the toon. Its still in the prototype phase. Thinking this build will function better if the toon is a 2nd life TR.

TWF'ing Artificer only works on a heavy splash like 7 Artificer/6 ranger/7 fighter, otherwise rune arm is the way to go. You can probably go as high as 9 for Lightning Motes.

[DrawingGuy]

I've been working on a TWF arti. It's working fine as a melee DPS support role. Sure, you trade in runearms and ranged weps for dual longswords, but you get that +2 to your weps, always have DR and extra dmg spells, and a nice fighting companion. Although, its a feat heavy build, so its taking a while to properly build. I'm thinking of splashing 2 levels of monk for the evasion, AC and stances to boost stats that I had to sacrifice when building the toon. Its still in the prototype phase. Thinking this build will function better if the toon is a 2nd life TR.

I apologize, but I see 0 reason to go full TWF arti over Rogue. Rogues can scroll use for DR on the bosses, and bring proper beaters for everything else... so DR isn't an issue. You already get the evasion on pure. And the sneak attack is 100000 times better than the +2 you battle master you gain. In short, if you're not using your Rune Arm, why are you playing arti?

As for a melee arti, you can certainly build a viable one. However can you build one that's as good as an xbow build? I personally don't think so. With their ability to stack multiple damages with buffs and rune arms (including banishing, disruption, etc); faster attacks of holy burst + bane + elemental/deadly + rune arm would take quite a massive base attack to make up for in DPS (and my GS xbow does 100 base damage *per* bolt). Especially after considering xbow enhancement lines and endless fusilage. I used to carry a stack of melee weaps... disrupters, smiters, etc... and they were ALWAYS a dps loss over my xbow even on mobs that even took my base damage to 0.

[wax_on_wax_off]

As for a melee arti, you can certainly build a viable one. However can you build one that's as good as an xbow build? I personally don't think so. With their ability to stack multiple damages with buffs and rune arms (including banishing, disruption, etc); faster attacks of holy burst + bane + elemental/deadly + rune arm would take quite a massive base attack to make up for in DPS (and my GS xbow does 100 base damage *per* bolt). Especially after considering xbow enhancement lines and endless fusilage. I used to carry a stack of melee weaps... disrupters, smiters, etc... and they were ALWAYS a dps loss over my xbow even on mobs that even took my base damage to 0.

The jury is still out for me on this one.

Here are my initial thoughts:
Low levels (1-9): spare spell slots for party healing/offensive spells (due to scrolling insightful strikes/damage/elemental weapons), crossbow still being useful (not much difference on crossbow usefulness at low levels between the builds) and AoE Rune Arms being the best which synergises with bastard sword nicely brings me to the conclusion that melee is slightly better at low levels in a group but crossbow is stronger for soloing.

Mid levels (10-14): here I felt that melee damage was lacking due to my companions picking up their greensteel weapons. The AoE Rune Arm/Bastard Sword combo gets very strong with Lightning Motes and Lore becoming available. Melee damage starts to drop off a little (though possibly just due to lacking GS).

High levels to cap (15-19): IPS and BB give crossbow the clear advantage here, there is just a lot of synergy between the two.

Raiding and epics (20): BB and kiting becomes more situational; if you're kiting in an epic then often you are reducing party DPS as melee characters aren't connecting. A less sturdy ranged character will have less opportunity to discharge full rune arm blasts due to not taking aggro so well. Epic Chimera's Fang is a very strong weapon and glancing blows in general should give a melee build the edge in DPS (though I'd be happy to see numbers either way).

Just imo, anyway, still a couple of levels until cap so see what it's like when I get there.

[voodoogroves]

It's the rune-arm aiming. As long as that sucks, it won't happen.

[Imatotalnoob]

i've done it <ducks>

the rune arm extra damage proc's on your glancing blow damage
so max your THF and do either rune arm & d-axe or runearm & bastard

[Blank_Zero]

Wowo is currently leveling with me and his Melee-ficer Adelaise. I'm seeing him keep up with me easily.

He did pull out a Heavy Repeater to kite Elite DQ1, but other than that or the occasional lever/ mob-on-a-cliff, he's gone straight up melee with great results.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Wowo is currently leveling with me and his Melee-ficer Adelaise. I'm seeing him keep up with me easily.

He did pull out a Heavy Repeater to kite Elite DQ1, but other than that or the occasional lever/ mob-on-a-cliff, he's gone straight up melee with great results.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm following this build post.

Points:
- Low level the extra spell slots from being able to scroll elemental weapons/ignore insightful damage let me be a much better party healer without sacrificing my personal DPS much (which isn't possible for pewpew). Also no contest between flame turret/insightful damage (as int isn't much higher than strength at that level). With Cannith Crafted gear the build was basically unkillable (95% fortification at level 3 iirc, life shield of invulnerability armour) and whether crossbow or bastard sword mobs died in 1-2 hits. There is very little difference between a bastard sword build using a crossbow from level 3 to 6 or so (point blank shot and rapid shot mainly).

- Lightning Cone rune arms work an absolute trick. I started with Chimera's Breath at level 3 eventually upgrading it with lightning lore and am now using Arcing Sky mostly. The cone shape of these rune arms hits everything within melee range including often mobs that are behind you in my experience. Buffing this up with maximum electric enhancements (only 1/1 in crit chance/damage though) and hitting electric motes has been a very effective nuke tactic in front of a flaming turret. I've used Pea Shooter/The Turmoil Within for backup as appropriate.

- Very buff/gear intensive. In the end I'm still a d6 HD, no evasion, bad saves build but by stacking available buffs (displacement scrolls, stoneskin scrolls, protection from elements, resist energy, +4 stat buffs from wands, haste pots, blur wand, protection from evil wand etc) and TR'ing with a decent amount of reasonably easily acquired raid gear (MinII belt - not ideal for this life but for next mainly, Minos, Levik's Bracers, Dance guard Fleshmakers Brigadine, PLIS, VPIS, Boots of the Innocent, Spectral Gloves, +6 int goggles/+6 con necklace, 2*Planar Girds and a good selection of bastard swords (Cannith crafted + Paralyzing icy bursted of pure good, vorpal icy bursted of pure good) I've had a good time of it. I'm sitting at close to 400 HP fully buffed at level 14 (though usually swap out Minos for Big Top for 100% heal scrolls with skill boost).

- Is the gear required? Not sure. I'm gauging myself against other TR'd characters like Blank_Zero's Warchanter Bard swinging a LitII Falchion and otherwise very well geared and very well played, the bar is set pretty high. I pugged a lot in the lower levels more for an audience and an elite opener than anything, I had quite a lot of good feedback but that would be gear/quest knowledge/aggressive play style as much as anything.

- Melee damage is lacking a little at level 14 but I'm getting GTHF at level 15 so am looking forward to more glancing blows which should help. I'm very much in a caster roll kiting large mobs (and not dying due to HP and other defenses) putting down a flame turret, charging rune arm, lightning motes and blasting the trash; usually only 1-2 mobs left after that to clean up with the sword. I did this to clean up all the trash in the final walk up elite DQ1 towards the first encounter with lailat. I was honestly a little worried if I could handle it but by the time my teammates caught up all the trash was basically dead.

- Even though I use a bastard sword crossbows are still an important part of the Artificer class. Beholders, some bosses, far away enemies all get the crossbow/endless fusillade treatment. AB isn't horrible with +6 dexterity bracers (tharnes), MGA crossbows slotted with +3 accuracy, GH, ship buffs etc but it's always a bit questionable whether to go with insightful damage or insightful strikes. Against elite DQ I went with insightful strikes and ended up with aggro despite a sharing the DPS job with the ranger (+4 holy MGA of evil outsider bane crossbow that i crafted just for the occasion did the trick). I no longer have any generalist crossbows; greater aberration bane loot gen, true chaos of construct bane MGA crafted and the above bow are all that I have. I'll farm the Doublecross xbow (which has int for attack so will be the highest DPS bow available to me most of the time with insightful damage on it) and silverflame crossbow (as I can't be bothered crafting a triple positive xbow).

- Rune arms and kiting don't mix. You lose movement speed when you're charging your rune arm and if there is a lot of trash you'll often lose shots to over crowding unless you swap to a short range rune arm (which doesn't function very well with ranged). If you want to maximise rune arm DPS you need to stand stock still and take whatever is coming at you but in that case why use a crossbow at all as you're losing most of the benefits, might as well build a sturdier toon capable of taking the hits (part of the theme).

Nothing else comes to mind, fair bit of work keeping track of buffs but overall the concept is working fine for me as a leveling build, I'm not sure if it will work at cap but I'm hoping that an Epic Chimera's Fang will help (and let me fit in greater spell focus: evocation for sick rune arm DPS).

Warforged is likely a better choice for the build premise but I wanted the cannith dragonmarks for crafting bonuses. There is a warforged version posted in the thread but it suffers from a very difficult choice: splash or having to choose between power attack and insightful reflexes. I'm a firm believer in staying pure to maximise rune arm and capstone DPS (you lose AB and damage if you splash so quickly end up doing less DPS even though you have the +5 damage from power attack without even factoring in lost levels on rune arm).

Worst thing about this build is limited inventory slots. I have about 10 inventory slots of loot at the moment and that is after getting rid of buff wands that I'd have preferred to keep and putting my Minos and some situational raid gear in the bank. I've hit that "Buy Now!" tab in my inventory more than once and thought about the 595 TP to get an extra page, **** turbine. If they had a sale I'd probably get it out of frustration.

[krogyy]

- Rune arms and kiting don't mix. You lose movement speed when you're charging your rune arm and if there is a lot of trash you'll often lose shots to over crowding unless you swap to a short range rune arm (which doesn't function very well with ranged). If you want to maximise rune arm DPS you need to stand stock still and take whatever is coming at you but in that case why use a crossbow at all as you're losing most of the benefits, might as well build a sturdier toon capable of taking the hits (part of the theme).

i am also planning to play a melee artificer after i complete a second sorc life. nice to hear it is working for you. the only thing is i am not convinced that staying pure is so important. in fact i am currently undecided between a dwarf with a monk splash and a pure warforged. luckily i still ahve time to make up my mind...

besides, i agree that kiting, and consequently BB, don't go well togheter with rune arms. kiting tactics also lose effectiveness in several party situations. i feel a melee artificer that can CC makes the other melees at their full potential without sacrificing dps.

[wax_on_wax_off]

i am also planning to play a melee artificer after i complete a second sorc life. nice to hear it is working for you. the only thing is i am not convinced that staying pure is so important. in fact i am currently undecided between a dwarf with a monk splash and a pure warforged. luckily i still ahve time to make up my mind...

besides, i agree that kiting, and consequently BB, don't go well togheter with rune arms. kiting tactics also lose effectiveness in several party situations. i feel a melee artificer that can CC makes the other melees at their full potential without sacrificing dps.

Splashing significantly sacrifices rune arm DPS and also melee sustained DPS from more frequent and less effective Divine Favour clickies (you end up down +1 AB/dam and having to activate them and divine power significantly more frequently).

Evasion is nice but I don't see it as a requirement on a build that can have huge reflex save (from IR) and a full swathe of defensive buffs, it's handy for traps but basically never a requirement. The main issue is being short 1 feat bit honestly I think you'd still be down on DPS if you splash.

[krogyy]

Splashing significantly sacrifices rune arm DPS and also melee sustained DPS from more frequent and less effective Divine Favour clickies (you end up down +1 AB/dam and having to activate them and divine power significantly more frequently).

Evasion is nice but I don't see it as a requirement on a build that can have huge reflex save (from IR) and a full swathe of defensive buffs, it's handy for traps but basically never a requirement. The main issue is being short 1 feat bit honestly I think you'd still be down on DPS if you splash.

this is certainly true for a dragonmarked build that use the fang. but otherwise a pure arty can not take all the melee and spell focus feats without gimping their survivability. at that point, it is a tradeoff between better evasion + better melee versus better rune arm damage + utility (or evasion + better DC vs better but less reliable RA + utility).

clearly, this wouldn't be a problem if SF, GSF: evocation were artificer bonus feats (as they should, imho)

[Blank_Zero]

flattery will get you everywhere war is nowhere near geared enough. I'm scraping it with that Lit2 and some extra plat that goes to my CSW pot addiction

[voodoogroves]

Just to clarify - you're saying you don't see absurd misses from the blasty arms in melee range?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Just to clarify - you're saying you don't see absurd misses from the blasty arms in melee range?

With Chimeras Breath and now Arcing Sky I've had no problems hitting all mobs in my general vicinity with a fully charged rune arm blast after dropping lightning motes which has cleaned up most trash after a bit of softening from flame turret, blade barrier and sword swinging. Blade Barrier is still new (only just hit level 15) and it's such an OP spell that I don't really need to do anything other than cast it and it's a real pain to swap between superior potency stick and bastard sword but hopefully when I get superior potency elsewhere (lucid dreams waiting for level 17) it'll smooth out a little bit.

Melee damage is lacking at the moment compared to blade barrier and in competition with GS wielding TR's (twink loot gen for me) but I'll stick with it and try to make it work.

Rune Arm works so well that as soon as I hit level 14 I respecced to get improved rune use IV for the faster charging, get ~200 damage with a charged rune arm (no lore at the moment).

[Myrddinman]

(lucid dreams waiting for level 17)

How can you use Lucid Dreams at level 17? I thought it was Min 19

[MartinusWyllt]

How can you use Lucid Dreams at level 17? I thought it was Min 19

Masterful Craftsmanship with nothing else crafted on it. Just tried it to be sure, yep, it works.

ML3 Khyber's Fury, hehe

[Blank_Zero]

Masterful Craftsmanship with nothing else crafted on it. Just tried it to be sure, yep, it works.

ML3 Khyber's Fury, hehe

ML7 Hand of the Tombs. Disruption at lvl 7.

[voodoogroves]

With Chimeras Breath and now Arcing Sky I've had no problems hitting all mobs in my general vicinity with a fully charged rune arm blast after dropping lightning motes which has cleaned up most trash after a bit of softening from flame turret, blade barrier and sword swinging. Blade Barrier is still new (only just hit level 15) and it's such an OP spell that I don't really need to do anything other than cast it and it's a real pain to swap between superior potency stick and bastard sword but hopefully when I get superior potency elsewhere (lucid dreams waiting for level 17) it'll smooth out a little bit.

Melee damage is lacking at the moment compared to blade barrier and in competition with GS wielding TR's (twink loot gen for me) but I'll stick with it and try to make it work.

Rune Arm works so well that as soon as I hit level 14 I respecced to get improved rune use IV for the faster charging, get ~200 damage with a charged rune arm (no lore at the moment).

I'm wearing the Sora Kell set, so have general slotless potency covered.

My big issue has been aiming the blasts effectively. I like to play at a 3/4 or so view, and I can't help but think it's sendin the cone down into the ground; I know the shots/etc. are wonky.

Plus, I'm getting insane acid damage so far. Turmoil Within and next up at 15 is Glorious Obscenity.

At the very least, I'll be abbot-farm-ready