11 Rgr / 6 Mnk / 3 Art - AA

[Thrudh]

Nor a very effective build at cap. You still need to melee ~30-40 seconds of every 2 minutes to build Ki and to avoid low DPS, unboosted pewpew. With 7 fighter you'll be stuck with quarterstaff to raise Ki which will generate much less Ki and do much less DPS overall than what you would get with 6 ranger and GTWF.

6 ranger is +3 damage and +6 damage vs FEs which is much better than kensei's damage, IMO. Haste boost isnt a deal breaker for ranged characters as you're only getting about half of the benefit (which allows artificer damage boost to compete).

Stunning Fist is another very compelling reason for TWF'ing as it is quite reasonable to get 50+ DC which is very effective end game and gives you something to do other than kiting a mob around if you pull aggro.

This. Without any melee ability at all, I think you're building a limited character that won't be much fun to level. You do need to melee some of the time to rebuild Ki.

And if you're going Wisdom based anyway for Zen Archery, then Stunning Fist is a great feat. I don't think the fighter splash with zero TWF feats is a very good combo.

[Shaatan]

Tbh, I didnt post this thread to discuss these builds. All i wanted to have is an easy access to builds (thats why i didnt even explain any choices to begin with) so i can link them to "some" ppl. As i wrote a few posts earlier, feel free to just ignore this thread, its just my personal build storage. There are way too many threads where ppl argue if meleeing is or isnt usefull for 10k stars builds and if stable dmg from fighter is better than a little more dmg vs only 3 types of mobs. I have my choices mostly based on my experiance with a variety of AA (and not only) builds and I cant force any1 to agree with me.

Yet still, im greatfull to Wax for the arti idea.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Tbh, I didnt post this thread to discuss these builds. All i wanted to have is an easy access to builds (thats why i didnt even explain any choices to begin with) so i can link them to "some" ppl. As i wrote a few posts earlier, feel free to just ignore this thread, its just my personal build storage. There are way too many threads where ppl argue if meleeing is or isnt usefull for 10k stars builds and if stable dmg from fighter is better than a little more dmg vs only 3 types of mobs. I have my choices mostly based on my experiance with a variety of AA (and not only) builds and I cant force any1 to agree with me.

Yet still, im greatfull to Wax for the arti idea.

Regarding ranger vs fighter. 6 Fighter/kensei I gives, iirc, +3 damage +2 seeker damage. On the other hand, 6 ranger gives +3 damage (rams might) vs all mobs and +6 (for a total of +9) vs 2 FEs (constructs and evil outsiders would be current preference).

There is really no contest about which is better.

The fighter build that I did like (which is linked in the above thread) is The Fad; 6 ranger/7 monk/7 fighter AA/NSI/SD ranged tank build by Arsont. That's something that I could (will) get in to.

The reason that forumites caution against a ranged build without a melee option is because all ranged all the time archers give the genre a bad bad name. We're trying to make the world a better place by educating one (no offense intended but) ignorant pewpewer at a time. Unboosted ranged combat is bad, find something else to do at this time unless it is specifically appropriate (3+ mobs lined up, mobs far away etc).

Don't post on the forums if you don't expect/want responses, it's what the forums are for.

[Shaatan]

Regarding ranger vs fighter. 6 Fighter/kensei I gives, iirc, +3 damage +2 seeker damage. On the other hand, 6 ranger gives +3 damage (rams might) vs all mobs and +6 (for a total of +9) vs 2 FEs (constructs and evil outsiders would be current preference).

There is really no contest about which is better.

The fighter build that I did like (which is linked in the above thread) is The Fad; 6 ranger/7 monk/7 fighter AA/NSI/SD ranged tank build by Arsont. That's something that I could (will) get in to.

The reason that forumites caution against a ranged build without a melee option is because all ranged all the time archers give the genre a bad bad name. We're trying to make the world a better place by educating one (no offense intended but) ignorant pewpewer at a time. Unboosted ranged combat is bad, find something else to do at this time unless it is specifically appropriate (3+ mobs lined up, mobs far away etc).

Don't post on the forums if you don't expect/want responses, it's what the forums are for.

You are forgetting about a few factors in ur calculations, but thats not the case here. Also that "ranged tank" thing is just lol. Thats one of the reasons why i asked to not feedback my builds. I see so many builds "from the moon" that cant possibly do anything good in this game being positively feedbacked that i dont rly think high of the forums community (im not expecting a wall of text in which u ll be defending this build).

As for melee or not... I have to dissapoint u . Im not one of these "uneducated" ppl. Im well awere of the lack of DPS during the cooltime of both manyshot and 10k stars. For a long time i was the one "educating ignorant pewpewers" on my server. I ate my teeth on AA builds and most of them have to melee to sustain the DPS. And i have to say it once again, with all my respect to melee DPS, manyshot > 10k stars builds dont need it at all. You have only 2 cooltimes - one of 10 sec in which u wont even have time to swing a few times if u switch to melee (not to mention if u lag) and other one of 30 sec in which you just regain ki and thats IF you even have any mobs to hit at this moment. Often the cooltime just passes by in the no fighting time. To get 20 ki you rly need only a few punches in fire stance which is not a big issue (i think lol).

You are probably right in one aspect. I shouldnt ve posted on forums. It attracts "know it all" trolls. I really wish i knew a better place to store my builds in.

[karl_k0ch]

I really wish i knew a better place to store my builds in.

How about your MyDDO blog? It's horrible for actual builds, but it's nice for a quick scheme, such as level and class breakdown. such as this:
http://my.ddo.com/karl_k0ch/2012/03/...t-progression/

You can even protect by a password, as I am demonstrating here: http://my.ddo.com/karl_k0ch/2012/03/...nd-mysterious/ (the password is DDO.)

Or, there is even the option to make the posts visible only for you.

Well, if I hadn't posted feedback in the first place, maybe noone else would have reacted to that. :/

[wax_on_wax_off]

You are forgetting about a few factors in ur calculations, but thats not the case here. Also that "ranged tank" thing is just lol. Thats one of the reasons why i asked to not feedback my builds. I see so many builds "from the moon" that cant possibly do anything good in this game being positively feedbacked that i dont rly think high of the forums community (im not expecting a wall of text in which u ll be defending this build).

I was in a fast ToD a few days ago in which a 12 monk/6 ranger 10k stars build tanked Jailer and then Sullomades, I fail to see how a build designed to tank wouldn't be able tank many more bosses. These 10k star builds have an excellent potential for AC if geared right and hate - while not fantastic - is manageable.

Arsont is a very competent player and builder with heaps of experience - undoubtedly more than you - with AA builds, I'd welcome you to provide feedback on this build.

As for melee or not... I have to dissapoint u . Im not one of these "uneducated" ppl. Im well awere of the lack of DPS during the cooltime of both manyshot and 10k stars. For a long time i was the one "educating ignorant pewpewers" on my server. I ate my teeth on AA builds and most of them have to melee to sustain the DPS. And i have to say it once again, with all my respect to melee DPS, manyshot > 10k stars builds dont need it at all. You have only 2 cooltimes - one of 10 sec in which u wont even have time to swing a few times if u switch to melee (not to mention if u lag) and other one of 30 sec in which you just regain ki and thats IF you even have any mobs to hit at this moment. Often the cooltime just passes by in the no fighting time. To get 20 ki you rly need only a few punches in fire stance which is not a big issue (i think lol).

I'd agree that in the 10 second cooldown you don't need to melee unless you wanted to use it to apply porous soul/static charge. I'd take it as a reasonable point that while questing in easy content you will often not need to melee much as fights will last less than 1:30. However, DPS is measured in 1 place; raids. In a raid your Damage Per Second matters as beating the boss down before the healers run out of SP is the only thing of importance and being able to do as much damage as possible is important, for this it is important to have a reasonable melee option.

Following from above also melee lets you take advantage of the bonus hate from earth stance (and gem/claw set if you have it) letting you build aggro while tanking (I'll try to track down an Anathema for bow hate). Stunning Fist, as mentioned, is a fantastic feat for managing aggro while epic questing also.

Ranger>Fighter, as mentioned; more damage in most situations and more damage overall all the time due to free ITWF. There is particularly good synergy with lowish strength 10k stars builds as wraps will make up DPS nicely with their high rate of attack benefiting more from other effects (ToD rings etc).

You are probably right in one aspect. I shouldnt ve posted on forums. It attracts "know it all" trolls. I really wish i knew a better place to store my builds in.

I'm a "know it all" troll?

[Shaatan]

I was in a fast ToD a few days ago in which a 12 monk/6 ranger 10k stars build tanked Jailer and then Sullomades, I fail to see how a build designed to tank wouldn't be able tank many more bosses. These 10k star builds have an excellent potential for AC if geared right and hate - while not fantastic - is manageable.

Can do just as much on my Kensei AA.

Arsont is a very competent player and builder with heaps of experience - undoubtedly more than you - with AA builds, I'd welcome you to provide feedback on this build.

Fighter Stalwart Defender I - [...] your melee threat generation is increased by 25%[..]
Stalwart Defender I: Defensive Stance - [...]You also gain a 25% Competence bonus to threat generated with your melee attacks[...]
Adept of Rock: [...]and a +40% Insight bonus to melee threat generation[...]
Incite: increases melee hate by 10%/15%/20%/30%

Ranged tank build with no hate and medicore DPS. Yeah, i see a ton of competence and experiance in it (never seen any other builds of his, i hope other ones are better than this).Might be good enough to tank normal ToD or something with a group of not well geared ppl i guess. Try tanking eLoB with it.

Enough said, im getting tired of arguing over what is black and what is white. Im just going to use this thread as i intended to (even if its against the definition of "forums"), without bothering to reply to comments which are obiviously meant just to raise the post count and enforce ur mentality upon all readers. Once again I ask you to just ignore my thread. You can find these kind of things in countless of the other threads and probably enjoy it much more with ppl that actually like fighting over stupid things just as much.

[voodoogroves]

We need to be careful when we say "tank".

Tank / kite without moving ... single target boss while others mess around <> tank while others are pounding on the same boss.

Boss he may be, but if you're the only target you're basically kiting. Very slowly.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Can do just as much on my Kensei AA.

No you can't, you might hold aggro through your Manyshot and 10k stars phases but once you get to the 30 seconds of unboosted damage phase you'll lose aggro due to rubbish melee DPS. Also you will have lower AC making it harder to tank.

Fighter Stalwart Defender I - [...] your melee threat generation is increased by 25%[..]
Stalwart Defender I: Defensive Stance - [...]You also gain a 25% Competence bonus to threat generated with your melee attacks[...]
Adept of Rock: [...]and a +40% Insight bonus to melee threat generation[...]
Incite: increases melee hate by 10%/15%/20%/30%

Ranged tank build with no hate and medicore DPS. Yeah, i see a ton of competence and experiance in it (never seen any other builds of his, i hope other ones are better than this).Might be good enough to tank normal ToD or something with a group of not well geared ppl i guess. Try tanking eLoB with it.

It's luck that 6 ranger gives ITWF to put all of that melee threat generation to good use then isn't it? Did you really not figure that out? For ranged threat there is Anathema.

The OP of that thread specifically stated that the build was not intended to tank eLoB but hard is certainly possible.

Enough said, im getting tired of arguing over what is black and what is white. Im just going to use this thread as i intended to (even if its against the definition of "forums"), without bothering to reply to comments which are obiviously meant just to raise the post count and enforce ur mentality upon all readers. Once again I ask you to just ignore my thread. You can find these kind of things in countless of the other threads and probably enjoy it much more with ppl that actually like fighting over stupid things just as much.

Wow, way to go to react to constructive criticism with personal attacks, unfortunately I'm less here for your benefit and more here to try to offer another perspective for anyone who happens to stumble into this thread and consider your builds, I'd hate for them to take anything as gospel.

[PsychoJester]

I'm really impressed, so congratulations!
I saw you many times around in Orien, but with other toons.

Can I see your current build?
12rng/6mnk/2ftr, right?
Can you paste it here or can you gimme a link?
Please