EADQ2 Known Strategies

[balancetraveller]

What are the known strategies for Epic ADQ raid? Is the "meatball" method the only one that's been proven and worked?

Asking because the "meatball" strategy skews heavily towards melee, and often if not all the time you won't see more than 2 arcanes being allowed into the groups. Making this raid very peculiar by design, because the base version of the raid is dominated by arcanes. The raid also currently holds the most epic end-game gear selection any arcane build would all like to have, but we are having a hard time to even join one.

Have you ever seen any EADQ2 that's been done with more than 3 arcanes (after the WoE nerf)? Or have you ever heard of an all-caster EADQ2 (after the WoE nerf)? I'd like to know of the strategies that's being used if there's any.

For example: Will it work if it's like 9 PMs + 3 Clr/FvS' running around DoTting?

[Matuse]

Far as I know, mass divine/arcane groups use the "meatball" method as well.

Running around like crazy just gets people killed. Lailat is faster than you are, and you end up taking gobs of damage from floating blades and archers. The platform is large enough that you can pretty easily be out of the range of single target heals, to say nothing of the mass heals that the raid requires because there are so many sources of damage coming at -everyone-. Unless you have a tank who can intim lailat into one spot, there's simply no way to keep people alive in that fight with single target heals. Can't be done. When everyone is running around, you essentially force single target heals, and that means everyone dies.

[balancetraveller]

Far as I know, mass divine/arcane groups use the "meatball" method as well.

Could you elaborate more details on this? This is hinting that PMs need to stay out of form, unless all arcanes are PM, correct? Will non self-healing arcanes (Sorc, AM) survive the meatball method?

[Sarisa]

Underequipped PM's usually die when in form. Equipped PM's rarely do due to how many temp HP proc items they have equipped, along with any DR boosts they can get.

A lot of eDQ's I run these days have at least one person who can either intimidate or keep hate on, and draw the cometfalls just on them instead of on the rest of the group. That makes it easier to heal as well, along with giving all the other melees the flanking bonus to hit.

[LeLoric]

We single tank here with other melees on her tail and casters/healers/ranged back away from group in case of cometfalls.

Scroll healing is enough for the tank and resources are minimalized with a tank. If your tank does not have high enough intim you may need your casters to minimalize dot usage when she is away from center platform.

The meatball method still works but I have seen more failed runs since the cometfall inception doing this and coupled with the higher fort and hp changes, meatball methods can often have pots used if dps isn't top notch.

[balancetraveller]

We single tank here with other melees on her tail and casters/healers/ranged back away from group in case of cometfalls.

Scroll healing is enough for the tank and resources are minimalized with a tank. If your tank does not have high enough intim you may need your casters to minimalize dot usage when she is away from center platform.

The meatball method still works but I have seen more failed runs since the cometfall inception doing this and coupled with the higher fort and hp changes, meatball methods can often have pots used if dps isn't top notch.

How much intim would your typical tank have? 80?

[balancetraveller]

Underequipped PM's usually die when in form. Equipped PM's rarely do due to how many temp HP proc items they have equipped, along with any DR boosts they can get.

A lot of eDQ's I run these days have at least one person who can either intimidate or keep hate on, and draw the cometfalls just on them instead of on the rest of the group. That makes it easier to heal as well, along with giving all the other melees the flanking bonus to hit.

Our server's still stuck with the meatball method, and almost literally all EADQ2 I've been in since the Cometfall update require the group to fail once or twice before finally done - either way, you know.

[Mrmorphling]

How much intim would your typical tank have? 80?

79 is needed for no fail non halfling intimidate on eLailat which more and more tanks has nowadays due to eLoB requiring 82.

[ElbionTcob]

700+ hp Con Based Fvs or Sorc tank who grabs the archer aggro, along with Anthema and Dot Laliat. When she drops we give 10 seconds for any melee.

Running at 25% and then 37 DR, along with double conc-op and demon plate as well as 10,20,30% heal amp a decent Fvs tank can survive quite a lot.

[ddo.rsmo.pt]

What are the known strategies for Epic ADQ raid? Is the "meatball" method the only one that's been proven and worked?

For the first question, one of the answers is Intimitanking.

For the second question, the answer is No. Since EADQ is out, I think most of the timespan people have not been using Meatball Method (M&M), and we were still successful.

For the third question you didn't ask, Yes, Meatballing is the easiest method to complete, provided you have the correct team set-up.

[Sarisa]

Pre-u9, you could:

Shield block Intimi-tank. Easiest method then, but very few people at that time could get a high enough intim and be durable enough to succeed. This was before a lot of the stacking intim items became available, and before the defender changes.

"Meatball", "Spartan", etc. At that time, Intim was the only way to control her aggro. It was random otherwise, and she did not respond to hate. This method was a way to keep her in one place, and keep everyone healed without much trouble.

Ranged. Micromanagement hell for healing, but successful in a few tries because she could, through a majority of this time, be slowed down with Waves of Exhaustion and like effects. This was most used during the time that Manyshot was bugged, and could be kept up for most of the raid.

Post-u9, pre-u12:

Shield block Intim was gone. She still didn't respond to hate, retaining her random aggro. Your options were "Meatball" or Range, so most groups did "Meatball".

Post-u12:

Ranged still works, but of course is harder than before. Probably still pretty viable in an all PM group.

"Meatball" still works, but due to the cometfalls, non-evasives/low reflex save melees will suffer greatly. The more non-evasive/low reflex save melees knocked to the ground, the slower the kill. Usually a good idea to keep at least one healer outside of the group so that someone is capable of healing at all times.

Tank methods, either via hate or Intim. In my opinion, the best way now. One person gets her attention and turns her. Everyone else gets on her back/tail, and gets the flanking bonus to hit. Only one person usually is affected by the Cometfalls, so there's faster killing overall. Easier to heal as only one person is taking the majority of her sword damage and cometfalls.

[balancetraveller]

For the third question you didn't ask, Yes, Meatballing is the easiest method to complete, provided you have the correct team set-up.

Hey sure if every melee in the group carries an ESoS or similar baddies...

Post-u12:

Tank methods, either via hate or Intim. In my opinion, the best way now. One person gets her attention and turns her. Everyone else gets on her back/tail, and gets the flanking bonus to hit. Only one person usually is affected by the Cometfalls, so there's faster killing overall. Easier to heal as only one person is taking the majority of her sword damage and cometfalls.

Totally agree with this after I saw it with my own eyes

[lugoman]

Ball method still works and intim can help with the comet falls. If you intim when she points and roll behind her, only the tank will get hit by the comet falls. When she finishes the cf's just roll back to the ball. You dont need to keep agro all the time, just keep intim free for when she points.

[jandhaer]

We used to do that but its wicked boring (unfortunately like most boss fights stand around figure X and swing/dot, hope for heals) and dangerous with her spamming cometfalls (at least with low reflex goon style melees), now we run around and dot her till she falls over (WAY MORE FUN IMHO), if she catches up to ya tank and self heal till someone pulls aggro, but maybe thats just us :P

[Bakarne]

Arcanes will generally have difficulty maintaining a stack of DoT spells on Lailat due to her teleporting mechanic even if they can self heal through blades and the archers. Also, Lailat is immune to Eladar's Electric Surge, so arcanes are generally limited to Niac's Biting Cold, Polar Ray, Black Dragon Bolt, etc.

Generally, pug casters are a nuisance in my experience. Either they die as a PM in form, or they kite Lailat around, which knocks people down and gets others killed. Frequently, pug arcanes run out of mana and just pike halfway through the fight. If arcanes want raid loot like the Torc, the drop rates are much better on Elite. On epic, explorable items and shards dilute the loot tables.

I prefer to take no more than one or two arcanes to pass standard raid buffs and to maintain cloudkill. The arcanes are useful at the beginning of the fight to help drop Lailat's health to the point where she returns to the main platform. Honestly though, I'd rather just take one arcane and ranger(s) with Manyshot since they can swap to melee later.

Wipes or forced pot usage in pugs are generally due to low DPS and losing a battle of attrition, so you really should make sure that (#1) everyone has the proper DR breakers (Cold Iron + Good) and (#2) you have a bard for songs + haste/rage.

However, with an intimidate tank that can position properly, you can get away with missing some of the parts that would make an ideal setup. I generally keep intimidate saved to use right when Lailat points to signal cometfall.