Remove xp items

[Celastelin]

Congrats

Working towards that goal myself, but kind of hard with all the wagro i get ....

No big deal - just one of many small changes that would improve the game. I didnt know the suggestions forum was for discussing big problems only.

Just cant shake the fealing its one of those small things that kind of annoys me. Its more about the principle - rewarding the wrong thing. They should reward skill and comittment, not remembering a button push.

Feels like having to remember to put money on the metre every time you park the car - it adds no enjoyment and its irritating if you forget it.

I feel it IS rewarding skill and commitment. Remember the voice only adds 5% per quest. Not very substantial. On that note part of the cost of earning that extra 5% is either always wearing that trinket in lieu of any other trinket or remembering to switch it out. I think the system as it is, is perfectly fine.

[Xezno]

I feel it IS rewarding skill and commitment. Remember the voice only adds 5% per quest. Not very substantial. On that note part of the cost of earning that extra 5% is either always wearing that trinket in lieu of any other trinket or remembering to switch it out. I think the system as it is, is perfectly fine.

Good point.

Someone who wants to play optimally will generally choose to use other items in those slots however. In my book wearing this item continuasly during a quest is a bit selfish (in a group) if u have a better option - you are somewhat gimping yourself so other party members have to work harder so you dont have to remember to switch items at the end.

Only fair way to do this would be giving your whole party an xp bonus if you used an inferiour item.

Some posters are implying that its somehow lazy not wanting to remember to click an icon in your hotbar before the end of the quest. Lazy in my book is not playing your toon optimally in a group by wearing less optimal gear than you have acess to.

So you are kind of punishing people who want to pull as much weight in a group as possible by making them have to remember to click on an icon in the hotbar or loose a 5% personal bonus if they forget to do so.

[Silverwren]

Someone who wants to play optimally will generally choose to use other items in those slots however. In my book wearing this item continuasly during a quest is a bit selfish (in a group) if u have a better option - you are somewhat gimping yourself so other party members have to work harder so you dont have to remember to switch items at the end.

You seem to be forgetting the OTHER bonus that the Voice of the Master grants. The +1 bonus to ALL saves and skill checks. My monk wears it all the time. How this makes me gimpy and selfish is beyond me.

[Ungood]

Someone who wants to play optimally will generally choose to use other items in those slots however.

The VoM is an item that gives a boon, no different then any other item in your inventory.

If played a rogue, you would know when to swap between your "Combat Goggles" and your "Disable Goggles", and failing to know when to do what would result in you missing mobs and blowing traps on yourself.

Such is the way the game should be.

So, if you are either too lazy, absentminded (or some other motive) to opt to swap in your EXP item when the quest nears completion, then you do not deserve to get your +5% exp.

It really is that simple.

Part of the skill involved in playing this game is knowing what to wear and when to wear it. It figuring that out with your VoM is a great place to start.

[Xezno]

You seem to be forgetting the OTHER bonus that the Voice of the Master grants. The +1 bonus to ALL saves and skill checks. My monk wears it all the time. How this makes me gimpy and selfish is beyond me.

Only if you have better options. But theese options are starting to become many - lots of ioun stones (adding +7 to stats or archmage at lvl 5), bold trinket, reavers head (twice the bonus), litany - even crafted trinkets now. Some of those items are easy to get while others require a bit more work.

If you told me at the beginning of a quest we where running together that you had acess to a +7 str item, or better yet a bold trinket, but chose to use a +3 str keeping the VOM on in order not to loose out on 5% xp i would call that selfish yes. Deliberately making your build less optimal so that you can get a 5% bonus while i do more of the work.

When VOM came that bonus was actually sort of a replacement of a rare generic item which was a rando drop (same +1 bonus). With the powercreep, this item which used to be the best thing you could put in your trinket slot, sadly got turned into a "switch to get xp" item.

[mobrien316]

So you are kind of punishing people who want to pull as much weight in a group as possible by making them have to remember to click on an icon in the hotbar or loose a 5% personal bonus if they forget to do so.

It is absolutely not a "punishment" of any type if you must switch gear sometimes in order to get something you want. I can't even see the reasoning behind your statement that it is.


A lack of a reward is not the same as a punishment.


If you are a rogue who has +15 Spot goggles on, and you get the alert for a trap, are you being punished if you have to swap out your +15 Search goggles in order to have a better chance of finding the trap? Or are you simply not getting a bonus to your Search skill if you don't?

No one gets punished by not swapping in the Voice, just like no one gets punished if they leave the Voice in the bank, or choose to destroy it.

[Xezno]

Edited the OP with a better suggestion.

[Xezno]

It is absolutely not a "punishment" of any type if you must switch gear sometimes in order to get something you want. I can't even see the reasoning behind your statement that it is.


A lack of a reward is not the same as a punishment.

If you get the reward every single time you do something it is indeed a punishment if it is removed.

Think of this simple example: You are working and you get a fixed months salary (a reward for your work), then one day you skip work and you are deducted a days payment. Would you call that a punishment or a reward?

[Ungood]

If you get the reward every single time you do something it is indeed a punishment if it is removed.

If a reward is contingent upon doing something, and if I do not do it, I should not get a reward. This pretty simple logic.

IE: If a person offers you 1000 Gold for capturing some villain, and you do not capture the villain, they are not punishing you by not giving you the 1000 Gold, as you did not do what was required to earn it.

Just like, going to work gives you the reward of a paycheck. No work. No Paycheck. seems simple enough, however, if they fired you on top of not giving you a paycheck, that would be a punishment.

[Xezno]

If a reward is contingent upon doing something, and if I do not do it, I should not get a reward. This pretty simple logic.

IE: If a person offers you 1000 Gold for capturing some villain, and you do not capture the villain, they are not punishing you by not giving you the 1000 Gold, as you did not do what was required to earn it.

Just like, going to work gives you the reward of a paycheck. No work. No Paycheck. seems simple enough, however, if they fired you on top of not giving you a paycheck, that would be a punishment.

So loosing a days worth of pay isnt punishment when u didnt go to work as your supposed to, but getting fired over the same thing is? Its just a matter of quantity - in one case the punishment is more severe than the other. Now if you worked like a day laborer i could understand your argument - since you actually didnt agree to work that day anyway.

Life is strange that way - bad things can actually happen to you if you do nothing.

[mobrien316]

If you get the reward every single time you do something it is indeed a punishment if it is removed.

Think of this simple example: You are working and you get a fixed months salary (a reward for your work), then one day you skip work and you are deducted a days payment. Would you call that a punishment or a reward?

Really? That is your example?


I would absolutely NOT consider that to be punishment. Getting docked a day's pay because I didn't show up for work one day? How is that punishment?


If every day when you came to work the receptionist gave you a donut when you said "hello", and one day when you came to work you realized at the end of the day that you hadn't said "hello" and the receptionist didn't give you a donut, would you characterize that as being punished by the receptionist?

If you feel entitled to every bonus, then I can see how you would feel that to not receive a bonus is somehow a punishment. But by definition a bonus is something extra, so you should not feel you are entitled to any of them, and you should not feel punished if you don't receive one.

[Xezno]

Really? That is your example?


I would absolutely NOT consider that to be punishment. Getting docked a day's pay because I didn't show up for work one day? How is that punishment?


If every day when you came to work the receptionist gave you a donut when you said "hello", and one day when you came to work you realized at the end of the day that you hadn't said "hello" and the receptionist didn't give you a donut, would you characterize that as being punished by the receptionist?

If you feel entitled to every bonus, then I can see how you would feel that to not receive a bonus is somehow a punishment. But by definition a bonus is something extra, so you should not feel you are entitled to any of them, and you should not feel punished if you don't receive one.

Lets just agree to disagree - this seems to be just another glass half emty/half full discussion. Basicly i feel entitled to my salary when i show up for work and do a good job,and punished if i dont get payed. Guess it comes down to how the labour market differs from here in Norway and the US. A reward for me would be getting a bonus in addition to my normal salary for doing something extra or preforming better than what is expected on me.

[Celastelin]

Lets just agree to disagree - this seems to be just another glass half emty/half full discussion. Basicly i feel entitled to my salary when i show up for work and do a good job,and punished if i dont get payed. Guess it comes down to how the labour market differs from here in Norway and the US. A reward for me would be getting a bonus in addition to my normal salary for doing something extra or preforming better than what is expected on me.

That's correct, same thing applies with the voice as well. I think the argument is over the word "punishment". A punishment is widely considered to be something unexpected that happens as a result of doing or not doing something. If you forget to equip your trinket, it's expected you will lose 5%, so it isn't considered punishment as it is expected. Hope that makes sense.

[Ungood]

That's correct, same thing applies with the voice as well. I think the argument is over the word "punishment". A punishment is widely considered to be something unexpected that happens as a result of doing or not doing something. If you forget to equip your trinket, it's expected you will lose 5%, so it isn't considered punishment as it is expected. Hope that makes sense.

I think his base analogy is flawed.

If you were use a Job and pay in DDO terms, the Job would be the Quest, and the Pay the Base EXP.

You then add to that by doing extra, or doing a complete "job" like Ransack, Conquest, and not making mistakes "Persistence"

The Voice is a Bonus, on top of that, for people who had the frame of mind to A: get it, and B: use it.

Those that lacked the ability or frame of mine to do those two things, do not get their Bonus.

[Syllph]

Perhaps OP you're just wording it wrong?

What I hear might not be what you're trying to say.

What I hear: I shouldn't have to equip this item to gain the benefits. This same logic goes for all items, once I get my +6(+3) Con item I shouldn't be punished for removing it for the item that adds damage. I should be able to use both, because I'd rather have the damage boost but the con is nice too. (I have the VoM but I'd rather wear something I like better but I still want the bonus from the VoM)

I'm not sure if this is what you're trying to say but that's what I hear.

[mobrien316]

Lets just agree to disagree - this seems to be just another glass half emty/half full discussion. Basicly i feel entitled to my salary when i show up for work and do a good job,and punished if i dont get payed. Guess it comes down to how the labour market differs from here in Norway and the US. A reward for me would be getting a bonus in addition to my normal salary for doing something extra or preforming better than what is expected on me.

It would likely be more analogous to say that if you show up for for work every day you get paid your regular salary. If you fill out a "bonus" pay slip by close of business on Friday, you get a 5% bonus. If you forget to fill out the bonus slip, are you being punished? No, because you still get your pay. You didn't do what was required for the bonus, so you simply don't get it.

If by forgetting to fill out the slip you would forfeit 5% of your base pay, that would be more like a punishment, even though if that is part of your regular job and you forget to do it, it seems logical that there would be repercussions from it.

Your analogy is more like claiming that by not breaking every crate and barrel in a quest, and losing out on the ransack bonus, that is a punishment. It's not. You didn't do what was required for a bonus, so you didn't get the bonus. You still get your base experience.

[Ungood]

Perhaps OP you're just wording it wrong?

What I hear might not be what you're trying to say.

What I hear: I shouldn't have to equip this item to gain the benefits. This same logic goes for all items, once I get my +6(+3) Con item I shouldn't be punished for removing it for the item that adds damage. I should be able to use both, because I'd rather have the damage boost but the con is nice too. (I have the VoM but I'd rather wear something I like better but I still want the bonus from the VoM)

I'm not sure if this is what you're trying to say but that's what I hear.

That sounds like what they want in a nutshell.

[Xezno]

I think his base analogy is flawed.

If you were use a Job and pay in DDO terms, the Job would be the Quest, and the Pay the Base EXP.

You then add to that by doing extra, or doing a complete "job" like Ransack, Conquest, and not making mistakes "Persistence"

The Voice is a Bonus, on top of that, for people who had the frame of mind to A: get it, and B: use it.

Those that lacked the ability or frame of mine to do those two things, do not get their Bonus.

I think we have actually come to the core of the issue. Unlike you i feel entitled to get the bonus regardless of me pressing the item or not because its such a menial task a 2 year old could do it. To me a good MMO rewards certain skills like reflexes, build knowledge and hard work - not the ability to change into an item which in no way contributes to the sucessful completion of the quest. Seems some people would be happy if they changed it into a clickie you could just stand in the harbour clicking on all day to get xp.

Now getting the item is another question entierly. Hence you should read my new suggestion - make the voice give bonus xp even if its just in your inventory.

Now the reason i feel punished for not getting the bonus is that i feel entitled to it. In psychology they call this negative punishment: Removing a privelage is a punishment. You feel rewarded every time you remember to equip the item - because you did not feel entitled to it. Getting the item makes me feel entitled to it - you only feel entitled to it if you also remember to press "the magic button".

[Xezno]

Perhaps OP you're just wording it wrong?

What I hear might not be what you're trying to say.

What I hear: I shouldn't have to equip this item to gain the benefits. This same logic goes for all items, once I get my +6(+3) Con item I shouldn't be punished for removing it for the item that adds damage. I should be able to use both, because I'd rather have the damage boost but the con is nice too. (I have the VoM but I'd rather wear something I like better but I still want the bonus from the VoM)

I'm not sure if this is what you're trying to say but that's what I hear.

Its not what im trying to say. The reason is that i do not consider xp bonuses an in quest bonus like all other stats. It ads no efectiveness whatsoever in a specific quest. All it does is make you repeat fewer quests in order to cap.

[Ungood]

I think we have actually come to the core of the issue. Unlike you i feel entitled to get the bonus regardless of me pressing the item or not

Next we will see you making posts about how you should get the benefits of every item in your inventory regardless if you wear them or not, because you feel entitled to it. or better yet, every item you ever had, ever, because having the item in your inventory is too much a burden.

Added: However DDO does provide you what you want already: Expirence Elixir.