The Heartless Hero DPS build

[brightfang]

So, after I can grind out 10 more Epic tokens, I am going to TR my toon for the first time ever. I am looking for feedback on the build I hope to use: The Heartless Hero! A Two weapon Fighting Drow finesse build specialized in the Drow racial weapon, Rapiers.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Heartless Hero
Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 406
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 14
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(30 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    21
Dexterity            18                    26
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     9
Charisma             10                    11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                     8
Bluff                 0                     3
Concentration         2                     6
Diplomacy             0                     3
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                     0
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  4                     8
Intimidate            4                    27
Jump                  7                    28
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         4                     8
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                 -1                     1
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 5 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I


Level 7 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Kensei Rapier Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV


Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 13 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Kensei Rapier Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Rapier Specialization I


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Sunder
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III

[Monkey-Boy]

Power-critical does nothing for you, waste of a feat.

Why are you going finesse on a non-AC build?

[brightfang]

Power-critical does nothing for you, waste of a feat.

Why are you going finesse on a non-AC build?

I don't really know what feats to take on a Fighter. They just get so many!

I kind of like finesse and my toon will, for RP reasons only wield Rapiers and Bastard Swords. I'll post a Strength version in a minute.

[Monkey-Boy]

I don't really know what feats to take on a Fighter. They just get so many!

Very true, you almost run out of good stuff to take on a fighter

I kind of like finesse and my toon will, for RP reasons only wield Rapiers and Bastard Swords. I'll post a Strength version in a minute.

Going STR based will save you a feat and you'll be able to more to-hit in the end on a STR-based toon over a DEX-based toon anyway.

[brightfang]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Heartless Hero
Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 428
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 11
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(30 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    26
Dexterity            18                    21
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     9
Charisma             10                    11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                     5
Bluff                 0                     3
Concentration         2                     6
Diplomacy             0                     3
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                     0
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  4                     5
Intimidate            4                    27
Jump                  7                    31
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         4                     5
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                 -1                     1
Swim                  3                     8
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 5 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I


Level 7 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Kensei Rapier Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV


Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 13 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Kensei Rapier Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Rapier Specialization I


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Sunder
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III

Is this better?

[unbongwah]

1. Don't do a Finesse build.
2. If you do a Finesse build, don't make it a ftr or barb; too much of their DPS depends on raw STR (esp. barb). Rogues, rgrs, monks, even certain pally or bard builds work better as Finesse-based than ftr or barb.
3. No, seriously, don't do a Finesse build. And I speak from experience.

Your second build is better, though I don't see why you started with so much base DEX. And Power Crit is still a wasted feat. Though at least you've got 400+ HPs unbuffed. That'll cut down on the "squishy drow" insults, if nothing else.

[brightfang]

1. Don't do a Finesse build.
2. If you do a Finesse build, don't make it a ftr or barb; too much of their DPS depends on raw STR (esp. barb). Rogues, rgrs, monks, even certain pally or bard builds work better as Finesse-based than ftr or barb.
3. No, seriously, don't do a Finesse build. And I speak from experience.

Your second build is better, though I don't see why you started with so much base DEX. And Power Crit is still a wasted feat. Though at least you've got 400+ HPs unbuffed. That'll cut down on the "squishy drow" insults, if nothing else.

I'll chop down the second build's dex. Can it do decent DPS with minimal gearing?

[Cyr]

A pure fighter can do respectable damage for sure.

However, it is easier to gear out a THF toon then a TWF toon if that is a major concern. You then would only need to get things like carniflex (low to mid levels), GS (mid to high), and eventually hope to pull a shard of eSoS with easy fill in options of epic antique greataxe and the elemental greataxe from the challenges.

You also then do not need the dex in the build for TWF feats and can change to a more dps intensive race such as Horc. It really is a huge difference having a horc THF for ease of gearing and such compared to a TWF rapier using build where GS for example are going to be double the amount of ingredients to build weapons.

That said drow may be better with the enhancement pass as the intial word is that they will be pickin up tempest as a racial PrE which will certainly up their dps.

[smithj_2020]

I say no finese and go str build....would see what I could do to get the CON higher also, more HPs is always a good thing..

[brightfang]

A pure fighter can do respectable damage for sure.

However, it is easier to gear out a THF toon then a TWF toon if that is a major concern. You then would only need to get things like carniflex (low to mid levels), GS (mid to high), and eventually hope to pull a shard of eSoS with easy fill in options of epic antique greataxe and the elemental greataxe from the challenges.

You also then do not need the dex in the build for TWF feats and can change to a more dps intensive race such as Horc. It really is a huge difference having a horc THF for ease of gearing and such compared to a TWF rapier using build where GS for example are going to be double the amount of ingredients to build weapons.

That said drow may be better with the enhancement pass as the intial word is that they will be pickin up tempest as a racial PrE which will certainly up their dps.

Remember, this is a TR FROM a TWF build, I already have TWF gear.

[unbongwah]

Can it do decent DPS with minimal gearing?

Define "decent." Neither drow nor rapiers are optimal DPS; something like, say, HE w/max STR, khopeshes, and rogue dilly is (I think - I keep losing track). But with the right set of rapiers etc., you should do fine.

Personally, though, I never do pure DPS drow, precisely because other races are better at pure DPS. I prefer versatile, self-sufficient builds for drow - e.g., ftr 12 / pally 6 / rogue 2: Evasion & UMD from rogue; pally provides higher saves, fear & disease immunity, pally wands & lvl 1 spells (mostly Divine Favor), some burst DPS boosts, hate-tanking via Divine Righteousness if you want it; and ftr provides the feats, HPs, and DPS boosts, both static and temp (mostly Haste Boost + Power Surge).

[brightfang]

I say no finese and go str build....would see what I could do to get the CON higher also, more HPs is always a good thing..

I did go STR, the planner is stopping me from lowering Dex but I will in the real toon. This is a Drow. I think 14 Con start is good on a Drow.

[brightfang]

Define "decent." Neither drow nor rapiers are optimal DPS; something like, say, HE w/max STR, khopeshes, and rogue dilly is (I think - I keep losing track). But with the right set of rapiers etc., you should do fine.

Personally, though, I never do pure DPS drow, precisely because other races are better at pure DPS. I prefer versatile, self-sufficient builds for drow - e.g., ftr 12 / pally 6 / rogue 2: Evasion & UMD from rogue; pally provides higher saves, fear & disease immunity, pally wands & lvl 1 spells (mostly Divine Favor), some burst DPS boosts, hate-tanking via Divine Righteousness if you want it; and ftr provides the feats, HPs, and DPS boosts, both static and temp (mostly Haste Boost + Power Surge).

By decent, I mean high enough that no one thinks I am a gimp.

[brightfang]

Just another question. Would it be good if I swapped Power Critical for an Exotic Weapon Proficency, Say, Bastard Sword or Khopesh?

[unbongwah]

By decent, I mean high enough that no one thinks I am a gimp because it's really low.

...probably?

Seriously, I'm not very good at crunching DPS numbers. I just know you lose some DPS for using rapiers instead of khopeshes (though drow racial bonuses help close the gap), some more for going drow instead of one of the "master races," and a bit more for starting STR 16 instead of maxing it out. But unless you're trying to top the kill count, you should be fine.

another question. Would it be good if I swapped Power Critical for an Exotic Weapon Proficency, Say, Bastard Sword or Khopesh?

Khopesh is an improvement over rapiers; bastard sword is actually a downgrade. But both of those are slashing; if you planned to use them, you'd want the slashing feats, not piercing. That's a radical different build.

[Asketes]

I'll chop down the second build's dex. Can it do decent DPS with minimal gearing?

considering more strength equals more DPS. Finesse builds use DEX for their attack bonus but NOT for their damage bonus, that is still regulated by their strength. So if you are using a high DEX low STR build, your DPS will be weaker and will be reliant solely on your weapon's enhancements.

[brightfang]

...probably?

Seriously, I'm not very good at crunching DPS numbers. I just know you lose some DPS for using rapiers instead of khopeshes (though drow racial bonuses help close the gap), some more for going drow instead of one of the "master races," and a bit more for starting STR 16 instead of maxing it out. But unless you're trying to top the kill count, you should be fine.

Khopesh is an improvement over rapiers; bastard sword is actually a downgrade. But both of those are slashing; if you planned to use them, you'd want the slashing feats, not piercing. That's a radical different build.

Yep, I know Khopesh would be an upgrade and B-Sword a downgrade but, I currently have a ton of B-Swords in my bank. I guess I will get some good rapiers or Khopesh.

[brightfang]

Well, the Heartless Hero looks about done, so time to grind out 10 more tokens!

[unbongwah]

ftr 12 / pally 6 / rogue 2

This is the build I was describing:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
(12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 354
Spell Points: 70 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 15
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(30 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    26
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    12
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             12                    14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    14
Bluff                 1                     4
Concentration         2                     5
Diplomacy             1                     4
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                     6
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            5                    27
Jump                  7                    12
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             7                     7
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                1                     3
Spot                  3                     5
Swim                  7                    12
Tumble                7                     7
Use Magic Device      5                    25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Hamstring


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+7)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Sunder


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack II
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage II
Enhancement: Kensei Rapier Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Rapier Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Rapier Specialization I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I

[Dartwick]

If you are doing a finesse fighter why would you be kensai over stalwart?