Drow Tempest in expansion

[kingfisher]

Riyden. They have announced that during the Expansion Pack the the class prestige enhancement line for Drow will be Tempest (someone at Turbine is a hardcore Drizzt fan).

In the Let's Talk: Enhancements thread, Eladrin mentioned that more racial PrEs are being added; drow are getting Tempest.

as far as i know, they have not announced that this is for sure, and here is hoping they dont. giving drow tempest is beyond cheesy; the fact is that a twf scimmy using drow was UNIQUE the in the books that turbine is suddenly so eager to mimic, not the norm. most drow used longswords or shortswords, not scimmys (these were favered by, yep you guessed it, surface elves). most drow used two different sized weapons, not two of the same. changing the game to give an entire race the template that a wayward drow used is weaksauce. the stronger drow, the better drow were wizards or clerics anyway! the melee were an afterthought, an option to those that failed to meet their races preferred and honored profession. so now suddenly the natural racial choice for a drow is twf tempest with scimmy's? give me a break.

and imo carbon copying ANY class pre into a racial pre is el lamo anyway and needs to be nuetered before it goes any further. with SO many possible pre choices in DnD, why not give the races something unique? there is no rush to do this, so 'short on time' excuse. besides, it may have backfire and actually discourage a race from taking their favored class because they already have the pre as a racial.

imo racial pre's should be lesser than class pre's. like AA, its decent, although it lacks oomph on its own, but when coupled with another class pre it can be nice. take AA out of ranger and boost deepwood sniper as rangers archery pre. AA never really fit with ranger anyway, based on the arcane part, but it make great sense for elves and halfelves based on their natural arcane tendencies.

[Jaid314]

@kingfisher: drow don't get bonuses with scimitars. they get bonuses with shortswords and rapiers. i very much doubt we'll see a ton of effective drow tempests dual-wielding scimitars (note: this is different from saying we won't see drow dual-wielding scimitars, i'm just saying i don't think they'll be effective. also, i doubt we'll see too many of them past the low levels; the players will probably all throw temper tantrums when they have a hard time beating the kill count of an equal level wizard swinging a carnifex)

[unbongwah]

Without Ranger the Drow would need TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack just to qualify and make use.

IIUC, the implication of that thread is that you won't need the full D/M/SA chain for drow Tempest; but rather certain "branches" of the Tempest tree may have specific feat pre-reqs. For that matter, it sounds like some of the bonuses will be independent of TWF. But we won't know for sure how it works until it goes live on Lami, I suppose.

[kingfisher]

@kingfisher: drow don't get bonuses with scimitars. they get bonuses with shortswords and rapiers. i very much doubt we'll see a ton of effective drow tempests dual-wielding scimitars (note: this is different from saying we won't see drow dual-wielding scimitars, i'm just saying i don't think they'll be effective. also, i doubt we'll see too many of them past the low levels; the players will probably all throw temper tantrums when they have a hard time beating the kill count of an equal level wizard swinging a carnifex)

tempest get scimmy's as a light weapon, drow get tempest. you will see a lot of them and no they wont be effective. the point is giving drow tempest as a racial pre is a bad idea on so many levels.

[ThePrincipal]

12fighter KenseiII
6 Pally HotD
2 Monk

Plus Tempest III

Power Surge, Haste Boost IV + Tempest Off Hand + Saves + Evasion + AC + Heals + Smites + Amp

500 HP still doable with just a GS and toughness Item.

[kingfisher]

12fighter KenseiII
6 Pally HotD
2 Monk

Plus Tempest III

Power Surge, Haste Boost IV + Tempest Off Hand + Saves + Evasion + AC + Heals + Smites + Amp

500 HP still doable with just a GS and toughness Item.

except that smites will be in a different pally tree than HOTD, possibly the exra LOH enh as well. and monk amp will be in a monk tree. if they stick with this stupid 3 tree limit, your build wont be totally possible. beyond that there are the ap costs to think about. having one tIII, one tII, and one tI might not be feasible.

[DeafeningWhisper]

tempest get scimmy's as a light weapon, drow get tempest. you will see a lot of them and no they wont be effective. the point is giving drow tempest as a racial pre is a bad idea on so many levels.

I lvled a TR last weekend in the harbor I kept hearing people asking: "how to make a twf ranger that uses scimitars" I answered go Elf they get racial bonus, "Drow get racial bonus with scimitars right?" the no I answered was met with surprise and more then a few asked "Is this okay for a Dritzz build?", which I anwered no Dritzz build is in no way a good idea, specially for a 1st lifer newer player.

I realy don't like this "Count as Dritzz" racial prestige, I was hoping for sneak dice with my bard archer, TRed into an Elf instead and it will make for a lot of new players running around in gimp TWF drows...

[Rydin_Dirtay]

tempest get scimmy's as a light weapon, drow get tempest. you will see a lot of them and no they wont be effective. the point is giving drow tempest as a racial pre is a bad idea on so many levels.

You mean they WILL/MAY get scimmy as a light weapon. Because last time I played (January) Tempest didn't get Scimmy as a light weapon.

And yes Tempest racial is a bad idea on many, many levels...but I'm not designing this game, they are.

[kingfisher]

You mean they WILL/MAY get scimmy as a light weapon. Because last time I played (January) Tempest didn't get Scimmy as a light weapon.

And yes Tempest racial is a bad idea on many, many levels...but I'm not designing this game, they are.

i think the scimmy as a light weapon part for tempest they are pretty sure about as the tempest line changes are really the only ones they have revealed any of, but yeah its will/may until its released ofc. that part does not bother me, not at all. its giving drow tempest that i dont like and the them going the easy route and cut and pasting class pre's as racials. but like you said they are designing the game.

[Jaid314]

tempest get scimmy's as a light weapon, drow get tempest. you will see a lot of them and no they wont be effective. the point is giving drow tempest as a racial pre is a bad idea on so many levels.

as was pointed out, no they don't. they don't get any sort of special bonus with respect to scimitars at all, other than the fact that scimitars are a one-handed weapon and like all other one-handed weapons *can* be dual-wielded, if you so choose.

that said, i've already pointed out that i think tempest is a terrible idea for the drow racial PrE. the vast majority of drow builds don't favor TWF. the few that do, tend to be the less popular drow builds.

drow ninja spy makes a heck of a lot more sense to me, personally. you get the short sword synergy, you get the part where drow, like a monk, gains SR, and it could really fit with the original "scorpion wraith" name for a drow PrE, in my opinion. plus, any class can benefit from shadow fade, and what could be more wraith-like than shadow fade?

[Xyfiel]

as was pointed out, no they don't. they don't get any sort of special bonus with respect to scimitars at all, other than the fact that scimitars are a one-handed weapon and like all other one-handed weapons *can* be dual-wielded, if you so choose.

that said, i've already pointed out that i think tempest is a terrible idea for the drow racial PrE. the vast majority of drow builds don't favor TWF. the few that do, tend to be the less popular drow builds.

drow ninja spy makes a heck of a lot more sense to me, personally. you get the short sword synergy, you get the part where drow, like a monk, gains SR, and it could really fit with the original "scorpion wraith" name for a drow PrE, in my opinion. plus, any class can benefit from shadow fade, and what could be more wraith-like than shadow fade?

they don't?
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=602

[Mad_ScientistsNH]

I know that on one hand the Drow Tempest is going to lead to an insane number of Drizzt rip offs, but at the same time I think it will add a great deal to a race that has otherwise little to offer. I hear nothing about Drow except how they're inferior choices for most classes, and I think that adding in Tempest would do a great deal to offset that disadvantage by making them versatile.

[Emizand]

Human: Pick one. (Slightly higher investment in Racial tree required to unlock.)


These are still subject to change. (Especially that Human part.)

Are people reading that as pick one of those offered to other races, or pick a total random PRE?

Should imagine the first, hope for the second. ;-)

[Vanquishedfo]

Well the only way I can see this working is with a massive boost to Drow finesse fighting. Make it add scims and longswords to the list of finessable weapons, add dex to dmg as well as attack, and give Drow some ability to push thier Dex into incredibly high numbers to be comparable to STR based builds. Since these days folks post shots of pushing thier STR into the triple digits, Drow who should using dexterity have NO EQUALS in combat have some inherent boosts per day that adds thier character lvl to thier dexterity. Yes I know alot of that is well past PNP, but this game has let the STR based players break the game, now its time to let finesse players have a race that would make it a viable option.

Even in this worlds setting drow are typically treated as among the very best warriors due to the countless years of making war upon pretty much everyone trying to surpress elvenkind. The Inherent Right of Elven Superiority must be finally given to those who play Drow who due to DDOs huge focus on HP and Con, makes the lack of a proper 32 point drow making even 32 point elves seen as the better option in most builds, and filthy half elves far to good.

Its like the Devs at DDO do not grasp that elves have and always are meant to be the BEST. granted your only allowed to play one if you truly feel that way. But really elves should just be able to make the best dwarf or orc wet themselves by looking in thier direction.

2nd Ed Grey Elf Fighter/mage with the bladesinger kit = NO EQUALS. such a standard should have never been forgotten.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

they don't?
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=602

Eladrin is talking about what they currently have in the development tree for the new Tempest. He's not talking about what is currently in the game.

Tempest II, for instance, does not give arrow deflection. But as they currently have their development tree, it will.

[Brennie]

I tend to agree that Tempest doesn't seem thematically coherent as a Drow PrE. If anything, Assassin seems like the most logical fit - Sneak attack, poison usage, and assassinating the unaware. That has drow written all over it!

In my mind, Tempest is very Elf-ish. A whirl of flashing steel, scimitars dancing in a graceful yet deadly choreography... thats what elves SHOULD be :P Especially given the Elf synergy with Scimitars and Dex - Suddenly they have finessable, dual-weildable scimitars! And Elves, quiet honestly, need some good reasons to do anything other than be Archers, only archers, and nothing but Archers. And only when Helf isn't available. (Of course, making the two PrEs mutually exclusive would be reccomended).

Unfortunately, stealing assassin leaves Halfling rather high-and-dry. Assassin doesn't seem like a particularly good fit for them anyhow, though... Can you imagine Bilbo, Samwise, Frodo, Merry or Pippen stalking through the shadows with poisoned blades, and going in for a stealth kill? Hardly! Mechanic or any Bard prestige seems the most fitting in my mind, except that those PrEs dont' function well (or at all) outside of their respective classes. Theif Acrobat would be doable, except for the part where you'd never see a halfling with anything but Q-staves ever again >_> I'm at a loss here. Thrown Weapon kensai, mebbe ... o_O?

Whoever gets Tempest (Please don't be drow, please don't be drow, please don't be drow...), I think Paladins (100% double smite/Divine Sacrifice, better leverage for their static damage boost like Divine Favor and Divine Might), and Monks (Who essentially treat all +% chance for offhand as Doublestrike, since their offhands hit exactly as hard with the same weapon as their mainhand, plus they get better returns for their increased attack speed) will benefit the most.

[Jaid314]

Unfortunately, stealing assassin leaves Halfling rather high-and-dry. Assassin doesn't seem like a particularly good fit for them anyhow, though... Can you imagine Bilbo, Samwise, Frodo, Merry or Pippen stalking through the shadows with poisoned blades, and going in for a stealth kill? Hardly! Mechanic or any Bard prestige seems the most fitting in my mind, except that those PrEs dont' function well (or at all) outside of their respective classes. Theif Acrobat would be doable, except for the part where you'd never see a halfling with anything but Q-staves ever again >_> I'm at a loss here. Thrown Weapon kensai, mebbe ... o_O?

i'd probably vote for a fixed virtuoso. emphasis on fixed though.

but also, i would again point out that ninja spy fits very well with drow as well, which means you could in theory leave halflings with assassin (though i think thematically, acrobat fits better, and frankly offers much more to most halflings imo; acrobat could be useful to a bard halfling, or even a caster halfling, because it improves mobility and provides some cool defensive utility as well. immunity to knockdown on a healer? i could definitely see people building for that, think eDQ for example. edit: in comparison, assassin is only really of much value to a melee build halfling. while not necessarily uncommon, it certainly isn't as all-inclusive)

[voodoogroves]

i'd probably vote for a fixed virtuoso. emphasis on fixed though.

but also, i would again point out that ninja spy fits very well with drow as well, which means you could in theory leave halflings with assassin (though i think thematically, acrobat fits better, and frankly offers much more to most halflings imo; acrobat could be useful to a bard halfling, or even a caster halfling, because it improves mobility and provides some cool defensive utility as well. immunity to knockdown on a healer? i could definitely see people building for that, think eDQ for example. edit: in comparison, assassin is only really of much value to a melee build halfling. while not necessarily uncommon, it certainly isn't as all-inclusive)

I'd love to see Acrobat instead of Assassin for Halflings ... all the racial athletic boosts, DEX focus, etc. Yes.

And ... I'd love to see Ninja Spy instead of Tempest for drow. We're talking Eberron drow here - Scorpion Wraith - not Duhrizziette

[licho]

For weeks I've been thinking tat Drow is going to be so uber in the expansion with the enhancement changes. I was really thinking that it would be a great playable melee race. However the more I think about it and try to figure out builds in my head, the more I think.... it's just not going to happen. The only thing I can think of is some kind of Exploit like build or perhaps a 20 Rogue, Dos or Stalwart build. But, they are still going to be gimped on HP.

Can anyone think of a great build for Drow if they could go Tempest today as a racial class?

The 1/2'ling is going to very awesome..... but is the Drow?

The gimped hp is nothing, since its just -20HP if our build will reach around 600hp who cares?
The real backward of drow nowadays is that they have nothing in pros.
The tempest will change it "maybe". It really depends how the new tempest will look like, and if drow gain some other boost

I see the good point in going with drow with any build with some on hit effect. Like rogues, or maybe paladins.
But it really comes to what are the other alternatives look like.

IMHO it also really depend if the rapiers as racial weapon will be competive to Khopeshes.

[maddmatt70]

I could see my ac halfling twf character getting trrd into a drow perhaps that character will be a 12 monk 7 paladin 1 rogue with tempest.