Haste Pots and Clickies -- Kindly Use Them

[garlor]

if I go into an epic quest and the caster doesn't keep us hasted most of the time, I will not play again with him, you say casting 1 haste every 4 minutes is annoying, but ask all the melees in the party to haste themselves every 30 secs?, what is this a joke?

[Palantyr]

Hmm.. CC specced or not while leveling up a caster, if the melees are asking for haste because there's trash mobs to kill... well there's the few quests with exceptions but the caster probably isn't being played to maximum potential.

As for epics, generally I find it best to just keep the whole party hasted at all times. Mine will last almost 4:30 seconds & costs a trivial amount of mana compared to 30 seconds for a pot + click downtime unless they jump drink flawlessly everytime or likely 1:30 for a clicky that will likely come click/gear swap downtime. Things just go smoother when I can keep the party hasted, of course if your're lagging behind for whatever reason then I'm probably going to leave you to your own resources until the group is fully gathered again.

[Qaliya]

if I go into an epic quest and the caster doesn't keep us hasted most of the time, I will not play again with him, you say casting 1 haste every 4 minutes is annoying, but ask all the melees in the party to haste themselves every 30 secs?, what is this a joke?

No, it's called taking responsibility for yourself.

Healers do a better job of healing than potions do, but most people still expect melees to carry heal pots or other options to help out. This is no different.

It's all about being reasonable and doing what's best for the party. Casters who will not buff are not acting in the best interests of the party. Melees who expect casters to act like buffbots are just as bad.

[Eleia]

IMO it goes both ways, casters should buff their teammates. However melees should pay attention to the mobs and what's going on around them as well.

I've seen too many groups over the years where melees only look ahead and not behind ignoring mobs that get away. I jump out of fights on my melees run back and pull junk off of casters, healers, ranged and any squishies that are in our party.

You know what? My melees get buffed wether they need it or not.

This is a co-op game. It's based on team play unless you solo. If you're grouping be a team player not a dbag. That's ment for every class.

Melees can come prepared. So can casters. It doesnt take much to bring a shield, have heal pots, not gain aggro, wait for fights to start, not get hit and not die.

The problem is we've gotten so used to soloing we're not grouping anymore, it's six people showing that they can solo in a group and that's just annoying to me.

Both casters and melees should respect each other. They're equally useful equally important.

Just my opinion.

[Melt-emi]

I never ask for haste as melee, but a caster who doesn't haste is a bad caster to have in a group

EDIT: pretty much what he said ^

[Chai]

Start a new character on another server as f2p, a melee character, 28 pointer, no twink gear or alts to send plat from, no guild, and level up. Then you'll understand how much plat for 3000 seconds of haste is really worth.

I agree with your original post to a certain degree, it's incredibly annoying having some tool demand haste constantly, I disagree with the disregard for cost to anyone except a well twinked char with oodles of resources.

Ive done this as many time as there are servers, and making money in this game is EASY.

No one needs to be well twinked. They just need to pay attention to the server economy regarding 3 things at low level.

Collectibles.
Metallic weapons. (silver, adamantine, cold iron)
Crafting mats.

250k plat is easy to make at low levels nowdays. Never had a time where I went to the potion vendor, bought haste, str, and heroism pots all instacks of 100, and I didnt make the money I spent back before the stacks ran out.

Anyone complaining about money is paying more attention to leveling fast and not using the AH enough.

[Melt-emi]

He is including the time it requires to drink the pot in his calculations. Otherwise there would be no difference between the haste coming from the pot and the haste coming from someone else.

My thoughts on the matter: if you don't like giving haste out to your teammates, then don't group with other people. The only content that really requires using a team in this game is Epic and raids, and if someone isn't hasting, raging, AND displacing when useful in those - well, you aren't worried much about efficiency, completion, or costs anyway.

I generally haste anyone who seems to be moving slower than 40% striding anytime they are within range. Even if they are by themselves. Sometimes I'll bother to move next to them if I'm not in a hurry (which is not very often), but the damage mitigation and maneuverability aspects of haste make things run so much smoother that I actually get mildly annoyed when people run off without it.

No one is capable of controlling your spell usage other than you. You DON'T have to supply haste or any buffs if you don't want to, but let's not pretend it's everyone else who is being rude by not maintaining a constant stock of 50+ haste potions for each and every quest. I carry haste pots on my melee, but most of that is intended for situations and quests that require soloing.

All of my characters are designed to run in a group that is comprised of teamwork-oriented players running those exact same classes. In other words, I consider the haste coming from my bard an indirect cast on my kensei.

You sir said everything i wanted to say. Thanks a lot.

If you play a role, you have to fulfill it totally, at 360°. Nothing more, nothing less. Dont group at all, otherwise.

[Luxgolg]

Too many people here trying to "win" DDO. Haste is available to all players in one form or another. Too many people telling others its a casters job to have it. You want haste? Buy it. You want buffs? Ask NICELY. Too many power levelers telling people how to play their toons. The expansion caters to experienced players. Turbine has done a fantastic job with the beginning quests also. Some jerks in the community are pushing the low level new guys to another game, by telling them what their toon should do instead of teaching them.

I like haste. I carry haste. I'll give you haste. Please dont be a jerk. I play my game, you play yours. If you dont play nice, I will treat you like a NPC.

PS - Try rolling a new toon. start at level 1 with no gear, no money, and no shared bank. Those pugs you join while on Korthos is what new players experience. Keep that in mind while playing your main and not letting the rogue with less than 300HP into the shroud.

/endrant

[WruntJunior]

I see this two ways. If you're killing all the trash yourself, that's all well and good...the melees don't really need buffs at that point. However, if you're not killing 95% or more of all trash yourself almost as soon as you get to it....you should probably start playing like a team-player and not as if you're soloing. Granted, I'm bad about remembering haste and rage (if I'm doing an epic or raid, I tell my party to remind me if I forget to haste/rage them, as I can forget things like that rather easily)...but if you're not effectively soloing while pulling 5 people through for loot, buff your party. If you can't do that, you don't know how to play a caster no matter what you say, as a core part of casters is the ability (and practice) of keeping the party buffed with what they need. If you can't do this, I definitely wouldn't welcome you into my group.

BTW, all of my melees DO carry >100 rage and haste pots, and my main has >12 minutes of haste and rage clickies. I still frown upon casters who can not keep the party buffed for things like eChrono or eDA (which my gimpy wizard CCs with little issue WHILE keeping the party hasted/raged).

[Cyr]

No, it's called taking responsibility for yourself.

Indeed and failing to perform a basic party function on a caster or bard is failing to take responsibility for yourself.

[TPICKRELL]

In that case his numbers are even further off than I thought, since pot haste would be less than half again the bonus of alacrity.

Sorry, EllisDee is correct.

I used Vanshilar's attack rate index post for the attack rates, and keyed in the wrong line for hasted twf attack rates.

Adjusting the damage for the correct hasted attack rates yields adjusted numbers:

TWF no Alacrity net damage gained from a haste pot: 651 total damage over the 30 seconds of the pot

TWF Alacrity net damage gained from a haste pot: 9 total damage over the 30 seconds of the pot

TWF no alacrity haste from outside source: 908 total damage over 30 seconds

TWF alacrity haste from outside source: 296 total damage over 30 seconds


I apologize for the error in my previous post.

This fits more with what I expected from my play experience. With an alacrity item/effect, a haste pot is very little added damage. Without an alacrity item it is a small but noticeable boost.

[cryptblitzer]

^...nuf said. My main is not a caster, hes currently working on Ranger, i actually never even bother asking for buffs. There nice to have but unless i absolutely need them i don't worry about it, i run the goggles from chrono and almost never use all 3 charges, finding it really isn't necessary unless its like the last fight or a really hard one. Just one opinion you can have your own.

Anyways gl in game all and peace.

[TPICKRELL]

nm double post...

[Qaliya]

Indeed and failing to perform a basic party function on a caster or bard is failing to take responsibility for yourself.

And where did I ever suggest otherwise?

This was in the same post you just quoted from: "It's all about being reasonable and doing what's best for the party. Casters who will not buff are not acting in the best interests of the party. Melees who expect casters to act like buffbots are just as bad."

Criminy. Sometimes I really wonder about this place.

[Dolphious]

I didnt say that I dont cast haste is raids, I specifically stated the only 3 epic quests where I pretty much wont even cast it once - Big Top, Party Crashers, and Snitch.

You're definitely going to kill Malicia notably faster if you haste the melees.

Is it necessary? Of course not. Neither are DoTs, neither is pulling her to the corner so she doesn't run around, but we do those things because why the heck not?

4 melees and a divine sitting at the entrance of big top. Group completes faster with my bard joining than your uber arcane based on what I've read (divine added just to make it fair, as I can easily solo heal a big top). And, more importantly, everyone has a great deal more fun.

[hobgoblins]

So many talk about being a team player when they are not thinking what
is best for the team.


Take a step back and visualize the perfect 6 or 12 man party.

That party MIGHT include a caster that has extend using haste
on the party.

In the absence of an extended haste the arcanes should not even
be loading haste or rage as a spell! The melee should be using good haste/rage
clickes, making an effort to include the haste buff on divines and
arcanes who might be out of the area of effect.

Arcanes (in a perfect party) should be the ones gathering for the melees haste cast!

Good haste clickies have about the same duration as a haste cast using
spell points if unextended. That is a free vs spell points. It would also be used by the
classes that need it the most, hence being more efficiently used. In addition
melee's have less to do between engagements than divines or arcanes.

Before you call me a lazy caster, note that i only have 17 spaces available in
my inventory for loot as everything else is taken up with scrolls, item, clickies, components, ete.

Melee are often so lazy in this game as to defy belief. Haste pots are the
bare minimum for a poorly equipped melee. ANY melee worth squat will have a haste clicky.
The greensteel version is not expensive. If I can carry 2 greensteel haste items on my sorc
then you can carry some on your melee.

Haste, Rage, GH, ete. should be cast using items or consumables. Never waste valuable spell points.

(Note: For some bards this may not be the case as they may have little use for their spell points on some
builds.)

[Sarzor]

No offense, but as a general principle I find that rather silly. When someone pulls off some impressive feat you thank them and compliment them, when they make a sacrifice that goes far beyond your usual repair or spell component costs (like they use mana potions or spirit cakes) you thank them, but if you feel you need to thank healers for healing after every fight then you should bloody well thank melees for swinging their weapons while you're at it.

I can't blame you for the gesture, but it's entirely unreasonable to imply that not doing so is impolite.

It is less that I am expecting someone to thank me for a haste, but when I gather the group for a hage, and someone isn't coming in then I feel little need to have a special hage for that person, unless there is a good reason such as being the tank or whatnot. I often can't really keep track of the hage during a quest, particularly a busy raid, as I am CCing and often I am hasting someone else and thus the buff isn't on my timer to keep track of. In that case I am expecting someone to say "re-haste" and I'll be happy to re-buff.

I guess I am just tired of everyone in the game assuming that every other player is there to serve them and only them. A caster's lone job is not to keep the melee happy, just as a healer's job isn't to babysit a melee. Of course, the job of both is to work as part of a team, but I'll be damned if I'm going to take everyone else, as a person behind the screen, for granted. For this I stand by my belief of thanking the healer.

[anto_capone]

Sometimes when I am on one of my melees I will ask for haste if it is not being casted. I never ask for rage or displace because that can be very expensive spell point wise.

Yes, all my melees carry a stack of 100 haste pots each. But it can be a great source of frustration having to click the pot every 30 seconds; because some of the time, if I am trying to drink the pot while on the run, the animation will show but the pot won't even apply! Sometimes it takes me 2-3 tries to drink a stupid haste pot, even though I've gotten better at jumping and drinking the pot mid-air.

Maybe drinking pots while moving gives my melees indigestion or something? I don't know.

On both my casters, I try to keep the party with an extended haste at all times, unless I am paying less than full attention to things, or running out of gas.

I would haste soul stones to the afterlife if I could.

If you are in my party, and I am the caster: expect me to attempt to keep you hasted the entire time. Why? Because it's more fun if the party doesn't have to keep watch on a 30 second haste timer, and when the party is having more fun, so am I.

[Krell]

I guess it was time again for a "to haste, or not to haste" thread.

I have lots of melees and casters. Haste is a fairly cheap spell that helps everyone. It helps everyone run faster which is quicker completion times. It helps melees kill faster which means less healing. I'll usually announce haste to give people a chance to be near me but I won't chase people down if they ignore me.

It is more important in end game content where resources, such as healer sp and shrines, need to be used more carefully. Also there are player expectations for some quests to consider, where if you are the only one with the haste spell in end game content and you suggest people drink pots and use clickies in that raid when asked for a haste, you may find yourself on people's "special lists" quickly. You can play any way you want, just consider the consequenses in certain types of content and decide if you are fine with that.

[Qaliya]

I suppose another angle would be to point out how nice it would be if it were easier to get longer-duration haste pots.

I have about 140 60-second ones that I got from Risia. But they are so rare that I'm afraid to use them.