why we can't be evil?

[thebeast1985]

i know that this post is been already opened by someone else, i've searched a little but i didn't find any post so i'm opening a new one (even if i'm sure there is already another one)

So back on topic...

No evil, why?
An evil hero can't do what? seek for lust? personal gain? seeking power? immortality? (oh sorry this was removed from the pnp game after first edition of D&D)

it seems to me that it should be easyer (in rpg terms) to see an evil hero collaborating with non evil characters than a True neutral hero adventuring at all.

Much more work for developers you say? i don't think so. but it could be...

Anyway i think this should be a nice improvement to our play style ( why our pale masters have to be good or neutral? what about evil alligned paladins? guess what? they exist, and they are not avengers too! )

[Gizeh]

In DDO alignment doesn't have a real influence other than preventing certain class combinations for multiclass characters.

If the quests were changed so that they can have different outcomes based on moral decisions made by the players it would be different, but then there would be the new problem of having mixed groups with good and evil characters, who would probably try to outrun each other to talk to quest relevant npcs first.

[thebeast1985]

In DDO alignment doesn't have a real influence other than preventing certain class combinations for multiclass characters.

If the quests were changed so that they can have different outcomes based on moral decisions made by the players it would be different, but then there would be the new problem of having mixed groups with good and evil characters, who would probably try to outrun each other to talk to quest relevant npcs first.

i know what u mean but it's also an rpg choice, it's not right to have all alignements but not evil ones, it's not fair

[Denegrator]

i know what u mean but it's also an rpg choice, it's not right to have all alignements but not evil ones, it's not fair

The questlines are linear mate, there's no deviation at all, and nothing that impacts your allignment like pnp or neverwinter nights had (loved that system where choices you made with npc's had impact on your allignment.) That's not to stop you from rp'ing as an evil allignment though with a dedicated rp group, but you just can't do it as part of the actual game.

[Calebro]

1. This is an heroic game. Why would an evil person do everything that we do to help save Stormreach/Eberron?
And more importantly:
2. What difference would it make? Alignment has zero affect on this game other than forcing you to require UMD checks for certain gear.

Heck, even if we could play evil, you'd be a fool to do so. You want to take a negative level from holy weapons, etc?
Evil alignments would strictly be for RP reasons, except this game has an extremely small portion where any of that matters, so much so that it's almost non-existent.
Evil alignments would not make sense for this game either thematically or mechanically.
That's why we can't play evil alignments.

[Doxmaster]

No evil, why?

Basically, because Turbine said so during development.

[zwiebelring]

and nothing that impacts your allignment like pnp or neverwinter nights had

Au contraire. Blasphemy of Horoth did not have any effect on characters any more with evil alignments.

Clerics had to choose healing then selectively.

For me this is just a sign for the devs idea of hero = good guy but this is somehow falsified now since the Ravager PrE will come and the all known quest Purge The Heretics.

I'd so loved to have evil alinged PrE like Blackguard, with the expansion coming up, even Thayan Knights and Red Wizards were an awesome option. Master of Shrouds PrE for evil Clerics, summoning incorporeal Undead and stuff.

[Denegrator]

Au contraire. Blasphemy of Horoth did not have any effect on characters any more with evil alignments.

Clerics had to choose healing then selectively.

For me this is just a sign for the devs idea of hero = good guy but this is somehow falsified now since the Ravager PrE will come and the all known quest Purge The Heretics.

I'd so loved to have evil alinged PrE like Blackguard, with the expansion coming up, even Thayan Knights and Red Wizards were an awesome option. Master of Shrouds PrE for evil Clerics, summoning incorporeal Undead and stuff.

Well there's also the quest: Purge the Heretics in house P, not a very "good" act really.

What I meant with my statement was that there is nothing which can change your allignment in ddo play like there is in NwN or PnP. I totally agree with you on the PrE's though, although to be perfectly honest, I'd like them to be actual prestige classes instead of enhancements, but that is wishful thinking.

[Delssar]

Anyway i think this should be a nice improvement to our play style ( why our pale masters have to be good or neutral? what about evil alligned paladins? guess what? they exist, and they are not avengers too! )

Paladins CANT be evil, period.

Its in the core rules.

What you are thinking of, is blackguards.

[zwiebelring]

Well there's also the quest: Purge the Heretics in house P, not a very "good" act really.

You failed your spot check on my post but nvm.^^

What I meant with my statement was that there is nothing which can change your allignment in ddo play like there is in NwN or PnP.

True, at the moment there is no big influence by alignment. But then it is still the question, why you cannot make your RP decision if it had no effect at all?
For the meantime, you could see every skill option of Intimidate as being an aggressive act of influence. But well, I want to read *lawful evil* on my Thayan Knight/Blackguard already.

I'd like them to be actual prestige classes instead of enhancements, but that is wishful thinking.

I tiotally agree, for the ultimate DnD feeling (yes, pen and paper fan ) I miss the Prestige Class indication as well.

[Denegrator]

Paladins CANT be evil, period.

Its in the core rules.

What you are thinking of, is blackguards.

Well they can fall to evil, it just means they lose their status within their church and become fallen paladins or as you quite rightly stated a blackguard. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeCl...blackguard.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/honor.htm The honour system is quite cool.

[zwiebelring]

Everyone takes Paladin only for the goodies you gain after converting to Blackguard ;P. Everybody knows that^^.

But, considering Unearthed Arcana book tehre are more options. Paladin of Tyranny and Slaughter are the evil brothers, even Paladin of Freedom for chaotic alignments.

[Calebro]

You failed your spot check on my post but nvm.^^

And both of you failed your Sense Motive check on the point of that quest.
You get duped into going in there in the first place, and it isn't until you're inside and fighting for your life that you realize it may be a mistake. By then it's too late, because as I said, you're fighting for your life at that point.

[Ungood]

It has been brought up many times before,

I wrote this a while back. The Problem with Evil Alignment, my Opinion on the subjective has not changed.

[Denegrator]

You failed your spot check on my post but nvm.^^

Dammit! Well he who stumbles around in darkness with a stick, is blind, but he who sticks out in darkness is... Flourescent!!

[HungarianRhapsody]

i know that this post is been already opened by someone else, i've searched a little but i didn't find any post so i'm opening a new one (even if i'm sure there is already another one)

So back on topic...

No evil, why?
An evil hero can't do what? seek for lust? personal gain? seeking power? immortality? (oh sorry this was removed from the pnp game after first edition of D&D)

it seems to me that it should be easyer (in rpg terms) to see an evil hero collaborating with non evil characters than a True neutral hero adventuring at all.

Much more work for developers you say? i don't think so. but it could be...

Anyway i think this should be a nice improvement to our play style ( why our pale masters have to be good or neutral? what about evil alligned paladins? guess what? they exist, and they are not avengers too! )

From what I've seen as many as a quarter of the characters that I've been in parties with appear to be Evil. That "Alignment" label on the character sheet is irrelevant. Just ignore it.

[zwiebelring]

And both of you failed your Sense Motive check on the point of that quest.

I don't think so.

[Calebro]

I don't think so.

I do.
You're both citing that quest as a reason why evil alignments should be allowed. The fact is that being tricked into helping the bad guys is much different from helping the bad guys intentionally. There was no malicious intent on the PCs' part, therefore it is not justification for evil alignments.

Let's look at the situation, shall we?
A priest from a righteous religion tells you that there is a cult of heretical zealots preaching to the masses. He asks you to step in and stop them, clearing the cult and helping his (again, righteous) church.
You accept.
There is no evil involved in accepting this quest.
The fact that he was lying to you doesn't change this. You were still doing what you thought was right and good.

Q: How does that justify evil alignments in any way?
A: It doesn't, and you're just using the ends as a means for your own purposes.

[Zeusknight]

Who doesn't like torturing small children and puppies!!

[RabidKoala]

Another reason against it: Your in a party, your evil, there is a paladin (not Blackguard) in your party, evil+paladin= not so good of party.

Personally I'd like evil to be implemented but I don't see it working out well when you group.