Next life? Bow-Barian.... advice?

[Huty-Shadowrunner]

So as long as the hotfix works, I have about 80k to get on my currently clr wanna-be completionist Teiris, then TR. Past lives include ftr and bard ( yea long way to go I know, but I just play her when im bored for the most part ). I have never made a ranged char or even played a ranger in my years here at DDO. But I want to get barb life out of the way for the xtra hp it will bring, and I really like the idea of the old school bowbarians. I have tons of awesome GS and Epic scims, so going to go 2wf with those, and want to go elf for the bonuses ( and all the RR stuff I have ) not to mention getting AA. I also want alot of feats and will need a few xtra toughness being elf, so I wanted to do something like 12 barb 6 ranger ( rangers get some of the feats I want free ) and maybe 2 ftr for even more feats? The goal here is really to be able to melee just fine with scims using 2wf, have decent ( 600+ ) hp, and also to be able to range like a champ. Maybe 12 barb 6 ftr 2 rog, that way I can have evasion and can go kensai ranged, and get even more ftr feats? I dunno, loose idea right now. Any thoughts?

[Delssar]

So as long as the hotfix works, I have about 80k to get on my currently clr wanna-be completionist Teiris, then TR. Past lives include ftr and bard ( yea long way to go I know, but I just play her when im bored for the most part ). I have never made a ranged char or even played a ranger in my years here at DDO. But I want to get barb life out of the way for the xtra hp it will bring, and I really like the idea of the old school bowbarians. I have tons of awesome GS and Epic scims, so going to go 2wf with those, and want to go elf for the bonuses ( and all the RR stuff I have ) not to mention getting AA. I also want alot of feats and will need a few xtra toughness being elf, so I wanted to do something like 12 barb 6 ranger ( rangers get some of the feats I want free ) and maybe 2 ftr for even more feats? The goal here is really to be able to melee just fine with scims using 2wf, have decent ( 600+ ) hp, and also to be able to range like a champ. Maybe 12 barb 6 ftr 2 rog, that way I can have evasion and can go kensai ranged, and get even more ftr feats? I dunno, loose idea right now. Any thoughts?

Plan out your feats well, you need ALOT of them to be a decent ranged character and without manyshot you'll be doing mediocre damage compaired to someone who has it.

[Huty-Shadowrunner]

Well if I took 12 barb 6 rng 2 ftr, for 6 ranger I would get manyshot, rapidshot and bowstr, plus 2 of the 2wf feats free. Maybe that would be better than 6 ftr.....

[rimble]

Man...that's tough. Aside from the increased Strength, nothing from a Barbarian works with Bows anymore does it? I think this might be a bit of a stretch.

Maybe 9 Ranger / 11 Barbarian. Gets you good Ranged and TWF Feats and Evasion. If you aren't averse to a little LR before you TR, maybe 11 Ranger / 9 Barbarian to get ALL the Ranged Feats.

Also, Half-Elf can get AA and use your RR: Elf items, so don't forget to consider that too.

[unbongwah]

Aside from the increased Strength, nothing from a Barbarian works with Bows anymore does it?

The +1/+2 crit multiplier from FB II & III applies to ranged weapons, IIRC. It's not as nice as Crit Rage...but OTOH you didn't have racial AA PrE back then either, which meant no Slaying Arrows on an old-school bowbarian, so it's a tradeoff.

Bowbarians aren't ideal, but if you're just looking for a fun, novel build to use to get a barb past life, they should do OK. Barb 12 / rgr 6 / ftr 2 is probably the best tradeoff: not having Evasion & UMD from rogue 2 kinda sucks, but you really need those extra feats. Need the 3 AA pre-reqs and the 2 FB pre-reqs, leave 4 more to pick. GTWF is an obvious one; and Prec Shot & IPS are very sweet on an archer; that leaves 1 for Toughness or an Improved Crit. Tough call!

I think im gonna just go with the helves angel as I have a ton of the gear he mentioned using, and it seems like tons of fun to play.

Bear in mind that the "new hawtness" in AA builds include a lot more monk levels than Helves; if you have Zen Archery feat, 10K Arrows (monk 6) and Earth Stance III's +1 crit multiplier (monk 12) both apply to short-/longbows. Try searching the forums for some "monkcher" builds, like monk 12 / rgr 6 / ftr 2.

[Huty-Shadowrunner]

Right on, forgot about RR helf. Also, what is this Helves Angel? I just heard about this build, guess its pretty old, but supposed to be able to hit for 1000+ with one arrow, and is a bowbarian build. Anyone know of a link to it?

[rimble]

Right on, forgot about RR helf. Also, what is this Helves Angel? I just heard about this build, guess its pretty old, but supposed to be able to hit for 1000+ with one arrow, and is a bowbarian build. Anyone know of a link to it?

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=289591

Old school Bowbarians worked mostly because of Crit Rage I think...+2 to the Crit Range of your Bow, which is already critting for x3 damage made for frequent and massive crits...but that doesn't work anymore.

[Huty-Shadowrunner]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=289591

Old school Bowbarians worked mostly because of Crit Rage I think...+2 to the Crit Range of your Bow, which is already critting for x3 damage made for frequent and massive crits...but that doesn't work anymore.

Awesome thnx. I think im gonna just go with the helves angel as I have a ton of the gear he mentioned using, and it seems like tons of fun to play. Shame that the old school bow barbs dont work anymore, would have liked to try that. But ill just lesser when ready to tr again and switch 5 levels of ftr for rng to get that past life instead. Thank u much for your help

[rimble]

Have fun.

[Tacktik]

I'm currently lvling an 18/1/1 barb ranger bard bowbarian, so I can give some of my personal experience.

The biggest advantage of a bowbarian is the MASSIVE crits you'll be making. x6 + 500 is no joke when you can get ****** level of str.
The disadvantage is the feats. On my bowbarian, I did not have room for IC or even precise shot. I won't even get manyshot till 18th.

If you deep splash, 12/6/2 Barb Ranger Arty is what I recommend. Arty will save you a feat, because the sp enhancement the class gains replaces Mental Toughness.

The biggest difference between an 18/1/1 and a 12/6/2 is the same as a Rogue who maxes STR vs the Rogue who maxes INT. One is a bossbeater, the other can CC. From what I've read, a max str kensai AA can visably reduce eLOB's HP when manyshotting. I figure this guy'll do even more against him.

[unbongwah]

If you deep splash, 12/6/2 Barb Ranger Arty is what I recommend. Arty will save you a feat, because the sp enhancement the class gains replaces Mental Toughness.

Fighter 2 splash is still a net gain of 1 feat (unless you count Rapid Reload, which I don't), but arty 2 adds UMD & W&S Mastery I (+30%). Hmmm...let's see how it works out:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
(12 Barbarian \ 6 Ranger \ 2 Artificer) 
Hit Points: 304
Spell Points: 350 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 14
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    26
Dexterity            17                    20
Constitution         14                    18
Intelligence          9                    10
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead (swap for Evil Outsider later)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Artificer)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 10 (Barbarian)


Level 11 (Barbarian)


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two-Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Barbarian)


Level 14 (Barbarian)


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Barbarian)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 19 (Barbarian)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Artificer Energy of Creation I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery I

Feats are awful tight. As awesome as IPS is, I'm half-tempted to suggest dropping it & Prec Shot so you can squeeze in two Improved Crits; or one IC & one Toughness. That would also let you drop base DEX to 15 (since only need 15+2 for GTWF), so you could move more pts into, say, CON.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Long ago I came to the conclusion that if I was going to get a PL Barbarian with anything close to legitimacy that I would do it with massive healing amp and vampiric/bodyfeeder weapons and other sources of healing that I can use while raged without just chugging SF pots (as that seems a bit cheap to me).

This can work totally fine with the AA platform you're thinking of with half-elf, monk dilettante, AA, 12 barb/6 ranger/2 artificer, levik's bracers, fleshmakers brigadine and scimitars.

Then you just need to be able to craft Vampiric and Bodyfeeder shards and you're set.

[ShadowFlash]

Not a lot of Barbarian, but enough to be worth it IMO... Elf..1 rogue/11 ranger/8 barbarian. This nets every Bow feat, full TWFing line, both Imp. Crits, full racial rapiers and bows, damage booos III, Haste boost I, 3 FE's with enhancements, evasion, and a +6/+6 rage, plus max ranks in open lock, disable device, and UMD...this is a 2nd life build I had planned already, but could be adapted to 32 points. This also nets 600-700 HP (napkin math) when fully geared, redifining the "squishy-elf-AA". There's no AP room for Frenzied Beserker though. Playstyle would be melee TWF rapiers when manyshot is on cooldown.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Elf Female
(8 Barbarian \ 1 Rogue \ 11 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 362
Spell Points: 250 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 14
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         15                    18
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    22
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration         2                     4
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device        6                    26
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate           -1                     0
Jump                  7                    11
Listen                3                     6
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             6                     9
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                    28
Spot                  3                    17
Swim                  7                    10
Tumble                3                     4
Use Magic Device      3                    23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longbow
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot


Level 8 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct


Level 12 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot


Level 13 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Rage
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Rage


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Damage Reduction
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III

ShadowFlash

Edit: missed the part about wanting the barbarian life. The only good news, is that with a single LR+3, you can get it. Kinda cheesy way to get the PL, but it works.