Talk me out of evasion...

[MRMechMan]

Right, but you've got to balance that against all the levels in-between and after where you just zerg through traps and every time an enemy throws AoE. Maybe you do that anyway with resist spells and just heal after making a save? Seems like a choice of playstyle rather than an absolute "This way is easier." But I see your point.

My personal view is that evasion saves either SP, scrolls, or wands used for healing. I'm kind of a frugal player tho, who mostly solo zergs. But for epic content, yeah, I can see the pure wiz and a few more points of DC or spell pen making a difference. YMMV.

You can *still* take insightful reflexes. Even without evasion you will still be making most saves and taking 1/2 damage-enough to zerg through most traps to your hearts desire.

AND, you get wail at 17, as opposed to 19...that is the biggest issue for me for TRs. Guildies of mine often go 19wiz/1rogue-enough for traps but still getting wail at 18, the level you farm vale, reavers, amrath, etc and are raiding. Getting it at 19 is not acceptable because many TRs are level19 for a matter of minutes.

[sirgog]

You can *still* take insightful reflexes. Even without evasion you will still be making most saves and taking 1/2 damage-enough to zerg through most traps to your hearts desire.

AND, you get wail at 17, as opposed to 19...that is the biggest issue for me for TRs. Guildies of mine often go 19wiz/1rogue-enough for traps but still getting wail at 18, the level you farm vale, reavers, amrath, etc and are raiding. Getting it at 19 is not acceptable because many TRs are level19 for a matter of minutes.

This. Insightful Reflexes is better than Toughness on a non-evasion Wizard (although you should take both). Seeing '(Combat): You attempt to save against Arraetrikos' Delayed Blast Fireball. You roll a 2 (+33): Success!' followed by 'Arraetrikos' DBF hit you for 93 damage after 30 was blocked by fire resistance' is great. And a lot of other bosses and trash mobs love to fireball/chain lightning/acid blast you.

Also you get Lich form while levelling rather than just getting it at 20, as well as getting Wraith earlier. Both of those make quite a difference levelling.

[MRMechMan]

This. Insightful Reflexes is better than Toughness on a non-evasion Wizard (although you should take both). Seeing '(Combat): You attempt to save against Arraetrikos' Delayed Blast Fireball. You roll a 2 (+33): Success!' followed by 'Arraetrikos' DBF hit you for 93 damage after 30 was blocked by fire resistance' is great. And a lot of other bosses and trash mobs love to fireball/chain lightning/acid blast you.

Also you get Lich form while levelling rather than just getting it at 20, as well as getting Wraith earlier. Both of those make quite a difference levelling.

I tanked normal VOD on my sorc once. +10 or +15 reflex. Did it the previous life as a fvs, and the life before that as a wizard, so figured it would be just as easy.

Nope...he spams chain lightning. Almost died within seconds as wasn't used to the spike damage.

Reflex save matters, even without evasion. Spike damage kills, and having 30+ reflex is the best way to prevent spike damage. The closer to +40 the better.

And ditto on the lich form...38-40 DC wail in the vale is nothing short of horrifying

[aristarchus1000]

Agree that reflex save is what matters, not the evasion. I hate when people ignore reflex because they think they don't need it without evasion.

My experience is that the delayed acquisition of spells while leveling is far more costly, and slows me down more than the lack of evasion.

Also... Elite ETK is definitely doable with high reflex saves, fire shield, kiting, and the right use of spells.

At cap, the only time I have problems is when I fail my reflex saves. Evasion doesn't help me on a failed save.

[Carpone]

Evasion is a great feat, but it's totally not necessary to play DDO as a pale master. Knowledge of the content and situational awareness will do more for your survivability than any feat can.

[Dexxaan]

Interesting thread.

My Evasion Pale Master (2 Rogue) outdoes any Rogue on trap skills, and is much more useful and versatile due to his Evasion. I run him solely on Epic content and never had an issue. +2 Int and a meta Feat lost.... Meh.

I'd much rather be able to watch Cometfalls, Fireballs, Lightning Bolts rain on my position knowing I can stand and deliver the goods and move forward, instead of asking for a rez every now and then blaming the overwhelming spell spammers.

Like everything else in DDO,...if you don't know what you are doing and are going to exhibit a good build in a poor manner....then don't.

Think Tightrope walking, Multi-Classing is something that most shouldn't do.... not all kids on the block do it succesfully.... but those that do are awesomesauce.

The problem is that those who cannot do it right make a bad rep for those that can to justify their incompetence.

My 2 cp's

[Sircowdog]

The problem is that those who cannot do it right make a bad rep for those that can to justify their incompetence.

My 2 cp's

You forgot to mention the theorycrafters blowing things massively out of proportion. To hear them talk, you'd think a 1% difference in effectiveness completely makes or breaks a build.

What everyone above has said is very true, but lets not forget that PM builds with or without evasion, as long as they're used correctly, are amazingly effective. With a great deal of that effectiveness being in the hands of the person at the KB.

[countfitz]

Yes to evasion, no to double toughness feats. Trap skills ftw!