Fighter/Rogue - Build !?

[mick1403]

Hi! I started playing ddo not long ago, and rolled up a paladin to solo a little and earn drow-elves through honor points. As soon as i have enough, I want to play a Drow Fighter/Rogue-build.

I already played fighter/rogue in the pen&paper, so i already know the basics (like starting my career out as a rogue), but ddo has those nice little advantedges you get when you rank up (between the real levels).

Now i was wondering if i will lose too much when I go Rog10/Fig10 or Rog5/Fig15, as i dont know how good those bonusses get.

Also, do the dex bonusses for the rogue class and drow elf stack?

Thanks in advance, and btw i am sorry if my english isnt the best...

[jwdaniels]

Yes, the dexterity enhancements will stack.

As far as class splits, the best thing to aim for is to try and get to a new tier of prestige enhancement - so either 12 or 18 levels of fighter (for kensai 2 or 3 respectively) is a good start. If you want more rogue skills, then 12 fighter is probably not a bad way to go. f you have the monk class, a good split to try is fighter 12/ rogue 7/ monk 1 (you can search for build advice for this split on the forum) otherwise 12/8 or 13/7 are both equally viable.

Also, you seem to have realized that DDO works very differently from PnP which is good - the best advice I can give you is make sure you have plenty of HP. In tabletop, a fighter rogue can get enough AC to avoid damage - in DDO this is far more difficult. Do not skimp on Constitution, and you will probably want to take toughness so you can unlock the HP enhancements.

[Putikk]

Hey,

Splashing 10/10 isnt the best Idea in the most Cases. The Classenhancements goes on in the most Classes every 6th Levels, so most Multiclass Builds going 12/8 or 12/6/2

I would choose a 12 Fighter / 8 Rogue Splash if i want to go for such an Toon. 12 Fighter you can go for Kensai II and can profit from 7 Fighter Bonus Feats. 8 Rogue gives you improved uncanny Dodge and 4d6 Sneak Attack on Level 7 + 1d6 if you choose the Assasin I Enhancement.

The Other Idea where Build an 12 Fighter / 6 Ranger / 2 Rogue. With normal INT and Skillpoints in Search and Disable Device youre ready for most non Epic Traps in the Game. Kensai II and Tempest I makes a good Choice, and Evasion from the 2 Rogue Levels and +1d6 Sneak Attack.

maybe thats Help a bit???

[mick1403]

Wow, that was fast. Thanks for the replies!

I think I will go Rog8/Fig12 then, as i would prefer more sneak attack damage over 6 ranger levels (and i dont have the monk class unlocked yet).

... but unfortunately i still have some points to farm until i unlock drow. I bought 32-point build, but i still think drow is a little bit superior over the standard elf, so i guess i'll wait till i unlock 'em.

[Orratti]

Got a 16/4 drow rog/ftr repeater build that I just love. Needed the extra ftr feats for shot on the run and went with drow for the spell resistance and of course dex bonuses. I'm always moving, usually in a circle around the melee. Until you get to high levels once the the melee have the aggro it's basically a one shot one kill scenario. It's alot like being a drive by shooter only without all the misses and collateral damage to unintended targets. I also picked up precise shot and improved precise shot to make sure that I hit my intended target even if another crossed in front of it. It's a money making toon as you rarely have any kind of repair build and just all out fun to play.

I'd have much more rogue than ftr in the mix for the extra backstab damage no matter what fighting style you choose to go with although going drow and more rogue than fighter lvls is going to cost you hps. If you plan to melee I'd say min con 14 but 16 would be what I'd do and that is costly.

[Doskko]

Drow get pluses to Int (which fighters don't need and rogues only need a little), Cha (which neither class needs) and Dex (which is needed for TWF). The minus of CON will hurt though, you'll want 14 at minimum and it will cost more on a Drow/Elf. You many want to consider rolling a 12 Fighter/8 Rogue Dwarf dual wielding Dwarven Axes because they get a lot of pluses with them and overall will be sturdier. Not to mention Daxes tend to cheaper and easier for new players to get. A Human version with two Khopeshes is also highly recommended. While both Dwarves & Humans lack the racial Dex bonus of Drow/Elf, many players find that Str is more important then Dex.
However, if you're dead set on Drow or Elf, just go for it, as its your character and you should do what you want.

[C-Hound]

Drow get pluses to Int (which fighters don't need...

Any class can benefit from UMD, and as a cross-class skill that +1 Skill Point/level is helpful. Just sayin' that it's not useless, not like, say, the Charisma is. (Altho' even that adds a flat +1 to UMD.)

Drow are not a favorite across the board, but they do have their strengths. SR is like Fortification against spells - a flat % that none ever land, before Saving Throws are even called for. That appeals to some, and for good reason.

Just make sure to put at least 6 Ability Points into Con, to avoid being more squishy than necessary.

And check the Classes subforum ( http://forums.ddo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21 ) for pre-designed blueprints - builds using (primarily) Fighter would be under Melees, Rogue builds under Specialists, and you might find help under Multi's as well.

[mick1403]

I guess I'll have to take a closer look on the races before i decide. Drow weapon training (attack & damage bonus with rapiers/shortswords) seems to be a pretty nice addition to any rogue. On the other side, using two bastard swords or dwarven waraxes would be nice too. Unfortunately I don't really like dwarves

[unbongwah]

Now i was wondering if i will lose too much when I go Rog10/Fig10 or Rog5/Fig15, as i dont know how good those bonusses get.

Typical multiclassed builds stop at class lvls 6/12/18 which is where the Prestige Enhancements (PrEs) break. If you're familiar with PnP, PrEs are sorta like a cross between prestige classes from 3.x and class kits from AD&D; you spend enhancement points (and sometimes take feats) to add PrEs to your char, which boost your abilities in various ways. Each PrE has 1 to 3 ranks (not every PrE has 3 ranks yet) which become available at class lvls 6/12/18.

Here are some common rogue / fighter mixes:

• rogue 2 / ftr 18 - a DPS build who gives up the fighter capstone for Evasion and UMD. Pros: lots of feats, HPs, and solid DPS; cons: low skill pts from ftr makes it hard to max out more than a couple of skills.
• rogue 2 / ftr 12 / <something> 6 - This build sacrifices Kensai (or SD) III to add a third (usually melee) class to the mix. E.g., rgr 6 adds more feats, lvl 1 rgr spells, 2 FEs, rgr wands; barb 6 adds run speed, Rage, and Frenzy; pally 6 boosts saves, adds immunities & lvl 1 spells, and provides some extra DPS options.
• rogue 7 / ftr 12 / <splash> 1 - this has more skill pts, higher sneak atk DPS, and can add a rogue PrE vs the previous builds, while still getting Kensai (or SD) II from ftr 12. Common splashes are monk for an extra feat & WIS bonus to AC; or barb for +10% run speed & +1 Power Atk enh.
• rogue 13 / ftr 6 / <splash> 1 - even more SA & skill pts than the last build, but lower HPs & fewer feats. [To be honest I think ftr 6 / Kensai I is the weakest of the tier-1 melee PrEs; I'd probably rather go rgr, monk, or pally, maybe barb.]

[Doskko]

One quick note, while using two Bastard Swords looks good on paper, I think it doesn't work out that well in DDO. I think, not 100% sure, that the glancing blows mechanic only applies to Bastard Swords when used with a shield. Search the forums, for I'm sure that its come up before.

PS I'm with you on the dislike of Dwarves. They're just not for me.

[unbongwah]

Drow get pluses to Int (which fighters don't need and rogues only need a little), Cha (which neither class needs) and Dex (which is needed for TWF).

TWF rogue / paladins are a decent choice for drow: INT for the extra skill pts, CHA to boost your pally abilities, and DEX for the TWF pre-reqs of course.

[jwdaniels]

One quick note, while using two Bastard Swords looks good on paper, I think it doesn't work out that well in DDO. I think, not 100% sure, that the glancing blows mechanic only applies to Bastard Swords when used with a shield. Search the forums, for I'm sure that its come up before.

This is correct, and dual-wielding bastard swords is a less effective option as a result. Best to use khopeshes (cost a feat, are expensive on the AH for good ones) or rapiers or scimitars (drow or elf respectively) and save the feat. I left off the dwarf w/ dwarven axes option as you've already said you don't want to go that route.

[morticianjohn]

Typical multiclassed builds stop at class lvls 6/12/18 which is where the Prestige Enhancements (PrEs) break. If you're familiar with PnP, PrEs are sorta like a cross between prestige classes from 3.x and class kits from AD&D; you spend enhancement points (and sometimes take feats) to add PrEs to your char, which boost your abilities in various ways. Each PrE has 1 to 3 ranks (not every PrE has 3 ranks yet) which become available at class lvls 6/12/18.

Here are some common rogue / fighter mixes:

• rogue 2 / ftr 18 - a DPS build who gives up the fighter capstone for Evasion and UMD. Pros: lots of feats, HPs, and solid DPS; cons: low skill pts from ftr makes it hard to max out more than a couple of skills.
• rogue 2 / ftr 12 / <something> 6 - This build sacrifices Kensai (or SD) III to add a third (usually melee) class to the mix. E.g., rgr 6 adds more feats, lvl 1 rgr spells, 2 FEs, rgr wands; barb 6 adds run speed, Rage, and Frenzy; pally 6 boosts saves, adds immunities & lvl 1 spells, and provides some extra DPS options.
• rogue 7 / ftr 12 / <splash> 1 - this has more skill pts, higher sneak atk DPS, and can add a rogue PrE vs the previous builds, while still getting Kensai (or SD) II from ftr 12. Common splashes are monk for an extra feat & WIS bonus to AC; or barb for +10% run speed & +1 Power Atk enh.
• rogue 13 / ftr 6 / <splash> 1 - even more SA & skill pts than the last build, but lower HPs & fewer feats. [To be honest I think ftr 6 / Kensai I is the weakest of the tier-1 melee PrEs; I'd probably rather go rgr, monk, or pally, maybe barb.]

I would also add rogue 18/fighter 2. It may not be the greatest build out there but because you're listing the "common" ones you can add this one to the list. Probably some assasin rogues who felt they needed some feat or another to help their build come together.

[unbongwah]

I would also add rogue 18/fighter 2.

Prior to the addition of the second rogue capstone, I would've agreed. Now, though, splashing a rogue costs you +4D6 SA, +2 INT, and +1 Assassinate DC (so effectively -2 DC); rogue 18 drops another +1D6 SA, a rogue bonus feat, and another +1 Assassinate DC. At this point, I would probably only do a rogue 19 / monk 1 unarmed build like waxy's; +10% atk speed and Stunning Fist are a pretty decent tradeoff for the capstone.

[mick1403]

Ok guys, thanks for all the replies!

I've decided to just do a (common) elf, rog7/fig12 (i still dont know what to do with that last level, but the idea to take a level of barbarian for the run speed increase is somewhat appealing to me).

The elf gets bonus with longswords & rapiers, so i guess i will stick to one of those (i think/hope that this weapons will still be superior over kopesh as i get +2 to hit/dmg beeing an elf). I still dont know which one i will be using later (longsword or rapier). How often do you encounter enemies who are immune to crits on later levels? Longswords would be better for those, seeing that i already lose my SA-damage angainst them.

Edit: In ddo it just says "Weaponfocus: slashing". Is this true for every feat where i would have to choose one particular weapon in the p&p game?

Still that wouldn't really help me, as LS is slashing, while rapier should be piercing...

[Esserbe]

The weapon focus feats are category based as opposed to specific weapon based, yes. Thus, every weapon type which primarily does Slashing damage, such as longswords, scimitars and greataxes are covered by WF: Slashing.

Since you don't have monk, I would suggest just going 8/12 Rogue/Fighter, since level 8 rogue grants access to Wand & Scroll Mastery III. You should be able to reach a decent Use Magic Device score with some investment, and better scrolls of Healing are always useful.

Crit immune enemies are the usual suspects, like undead, and raid bosses had a bump in fortification recently, but there's new abilities to deal with lowering fort.

Elves actually get to choose between two different enhancement lines, valenar or aerenal. Straight versus curved swords, one gives bonuses to rapiers and longswords and the other to scimitars and falchions. Rapiers are good weapons, but there's also many good scimitars in the game. Longswords are very middle of the road, since they lack either the crit range of the rapier and scimitar or the crit multiplier of the axes and khopesh.

[unbongwah]

For TWF elves, usually go with either rapiers or scimitars and take the appropriate enhs & feats (i.e., rapiers go with Aerenal enhs & Piercing feats, scimitars take Valenar & Slashing).

As an elf, you may want to consider adding the Shadow Dragonmarks: partly for flavor, but mostly to get Displacement from Lesser DM @ lvl 6. Being able to self-buff with Displacement is a huge boon for a first-time melee build without twink gear or a friendly arcane to keep you buffed. Plus who doesn't like cool glowing tattoos?

[Ryiah]

• rogue 7 / ftr 12 / <splash> 1 - this has more skill pts, higher sneak atk DPS, and can add a rogue PrE vs the previous builds, while still getting Kensai (or SD) II from ftr 12. Common splashes are monk for an extra feat & WIS bonus to AC; or barb for +10% run speed & +1 Power Atk enh.

You could technically go Half-Elf and get the Monk Dilettante if you wanted AC. Though Paladin Dilettante might be better as the Will save on the build is lacking.

[Dee_Snider]

I've been quite happy with my "Big RockCandy the Mountain" build (Warforged ac intimitank, 18 fighter/2 rogue, Stalwart Defender).

Here's the link to the build: forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=198820

[unbongwah]

As an elf, you may want to consider adding the Shadow Dragonmarks: partly for flavor, but mostly to get Displacement from Lesser DM @ lvl 6.

Here's a build I posted elsewhere for someone else:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Elf Female
(12 Fighter \ 1 Barbarian \ 7 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 306
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 12
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                     7
Bluff                -1                     1
Concentration         2                     4
Diplomacy            -1                     1
Disable Device        4                    23
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     5
Intimidate           -1                     1
Jump                  6                    10
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         7                    10
Open Lock             7                     9
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                4                    25
Spot                  3                     5
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                4                     4
Use Magic Device      3                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Sunder


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow (or Hamstring)


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Scimitar Specialization I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II

Instead of barb, you might want to consider a wiz splash instead; that would let you add Extend to double your DMs duration for free, as well as get lvl 1 arcane spells and use arcane wands free.