What was broken with Zen Archery?

[Failedlegend]

Ki generation & general usage should remain restricted to melee only.

One simple question...why?

[Auran82]

One simple question...why?

Because he said so, obviously.

Rangers are for ranging!!!

Long live pigeon holing classes into roles!

[Ravoc-DDO]

Because he said so, obviously.

Rangers are for ranging!!!

Long live pigeon holing classes into roles!

Those are your words.

Mine were ranging is for rangers. There's a difference.

[Auran82]

Those are your words.

Mine were ranging is for rangers. There's a difference.

Exactly, heaven forbid we give people more options when building their characters.

[Lleren]

no, generating ki requires physical contact

Generating Ki does not even require enemies in DDO.

Twice per rest a character with 2 or more levels of Monk can use Meditation to quickly regain some Ki.

[Tsuarok]

Generating Ki does not even require enemies in DDO.

Twice per rest a character with 2 or more levels of Monk can use Meditation to quickly regain some Ki.

I understand ZEN is a form of meditation...

[Ovrad]

Shurikens are centered weapons, and they don't generate Ki. Why should bows generate it?

Pretty much all monk 'moves' requires melee anyway...

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

ez thousand stars ^^
or if you are the sad sap that chose to do a ranged light monk ~completely idiotic unless you happen to be a beholder with kukan-do~ then you could use your ki for your buffs/heal and if nothing else turbine let us use our melee moves when using a bow but make it be a completely unmodified melee ~ie you have no weapons on for the strike, no handwraps, no nothing~ bow held in one hand other using the elemental strike so that way we dont have to switch from bow to kama's or wraps or something just to use our light monk specialties if we so wanted it

[Failedlegend]

Shurikens are centered weapons, and they don't generate Ki. Why should bows generate it?

Who said they shouldn't the argument is that any monk "Ki" weapons should generate Ki...that would indeed include Shurikens.

Pretty much all monk 'moves' requires melee anyway...

OK let's look at them (not how they work but how they should work)

Melee: Touch of Despair, Pain Touch,Touch of Death, Fists of Iron (These all specifically mention Touch although technically your Arrow "Touches" the foe) also bonuses w/ Short swords from Dark Monk

Ranged: 10k Stars

Both: Flurry of Blows, Trembling Earth, Gathering Storm, Raging Sea, Grasp of the Earth Dragon, Aligning the Heavens, Walk on the Sun, Moment of Clarity,Freezing the Lifeblood, Curse of the Void,Eagle Claw Attack, UNbalancing Strike Shining Star,Karmic Strike, Falling Star Strike,Void Strike,Lifting the Veil,Receptive Earth,Difficulty at the Beginning,Rise of the Phoenix,Elemental Weakness Attacks,Monk Serenity,All Monk Attributes (Perfect Self,Stances,Slow Fall,etc.), Light & Dark Monk abilities (Except short sword abilities)

Other: Breath of the Fire Dragon (It's a Blast attack..definitely not melee though), Healing Ki (A "Decent" Healing Burst but again not limited to melee)

So a FEW abilities would probably be Melee or Ranged only but there's plenty of abilities that should work for both same should be true with PrEs like Assassin...no reason you shouldn't be able to poison an arrow, or Assassinate someone from PBS/SA range.

[Ravoc-DDO]

Generating Ki does not even require enemies in DDO.

Twice per rest a character with 2 or more levels of Monk can use Meditation to quickly regain some Ki.

No one said combat is the only way of generating ki.

Edit: And a good point towards all those wanting ki from a distance. They could meditate, stay in water stance, stealth between fights to regenerate.

[StelionisIgnigenae]

It doesn't generate Ki in P&P, and I see no reason why it should in DDO.

[Failedlegend]

No one said combat is the only way of generating ki.

Actually you did...

no, generating ki requires physical contact

When I'm stealthed, in water stance or meditating I'm not touching anything so when shooting my bow puts me in a "Zen"-like state I see no reason why I shouldn't be generating Ki

[Aesop]

Shurikens are centered weapons, and they don't generate Ki. Why should bows generate it?

Pretty much all monk 'moves' requires melee anyway...

Both "should".

Additionally at least the basic elemental strikes should be available for use.

Monks are not siphoning off energy from their targets, they aren't vampires.

Yes the Healing curse should not proc from range because that is a touch requirement kinda like a damage shield in reverse... still not vampirism

Attacks of any kind while centered should produce ki. That's kinda the point of being centered really.

This goes for handwraps, shuriken, kamas, Zen Archery w/ bows, Whirling Steel Strike w/ long swords and weapons with the Ki weapon enhancement on it ... I don't care if its a Ki Repeating X-Bow. Regardless, these Ki centric weapons should also channel at the very least the basic elemental attacks.

Additionally, in the case of Zen Archery, it changes the base attack stat for the weapon to Wisdom if it is higher than Dexterity therefore it should also allow Wisdom to take the place of Dexterity for the purposes of Feat Prerequisites.

oh and as for Ranged is for rangers or rangers are for ranged... they are both wrong.

Rangers can range and ranged can be for rangers... bur ranged is not exclusive to any one class and shouldn't be... no more than twf should be.


Then again I also don't think Monk should have the monopoly on Unarmed Combat and would like to see Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike add to the Feat lists.

Aesop

[Aesop]

as a note I'm not a fan of the Thousand Stars working w/ bows... I feel like this should be something special just for Shuriken

[Lleren]

No one said combat is the only way of generating ki.

Edit: And a good point towards all those wanting ki from a distance. They could meditate, stay in water stance, stealth between fights to regenerate.

Oh really?

If that ki weapon serves as an extension of yourself to make physical contact, then yes. But that does not hold true for ranged. Monks are mainly melee centric.

no, generating ki requires physical contact

If you meant "with the ground" you should of clarified, seemed pretty clear from the context you mean melee combat.

[Ravoc-DDO]

Generating ki through combat should require physical contact, through your body, or extended by wielding centered weapons.

Note that meditating or stealthing is mutually exclusive with combat.

[Ravoc-DDO]

as a note I'm not a fan of the Thousand Stars working w/ bows... I feel like this should be something special just for Shuriken

Agreed, 10k arrows was a major boost to Zen Archery.

I guess it is human nature to have an insatiable urge to want ever more...

[Failedlegend]

Generating ki through combat should require physical contact, through your body, or extended by wielding centered weapons.

Like a Bow right

[Lleren]

Generating ki through combat should require physical contact, through your body, or extended by wielding centered weapons.

Note that meditating or stealthing is mutually exclusive with combat.

Ok. Now we are out of the you spreading bad information room, and back into "should" territory.


Thousand Stars should stay with Throwing Stars.
Bows should get their own special attack, something like sniper shot from Deepwood Snipers.

[Hikup]

EDIT: Apparently expressing an opinion that differs from the rest is enough to get neg repped... You guys are all sad.

+1 because this happens to me a lot as well