Force of Personnality

[aerendhil]

A simple way to improve that feat :
It should give +1 to all CHA skills.

[Doxmaster]

Why?

[chodelord]

because it sucks now, will saves are basically useless

[HungarianRhapsody]

Will saves are the most important save in the game if you don't have a way to completely negate the effect of whatever spell you're trying to avoid.

...but aside from an occasional disco ball, there really aren't any will save spells that you can't completely negate with the appropriate buff.

[yawumpus]

Considering it is one the few feats that are taken by a feat-starved class (sorcs), I fail to see why it needs buffed.

Maybe skill focus: swim needs to let you walk on water (or maybe even lava).

[Dwarfo]

Make it somehow apply to reflex saves!!!
this will never happen

[Hikup]

Make it somehow apply to reflex saves!!!
this will never happen

Matrix style, my sorc can bend reality his personality is so overwhelming
/signed

[HungarianRhapsody]

Considering it is one the few feats that are taken by a feat-starved class (sorcs), I fail to see why it needs buffed.

Maybe skill focus: swim needs to let you walk on water (or maybe even lava).

There are Sorcerers that take this feat?

Why?

[Lithic]

Force of personality can boost your will save by 15+. It's already a very good feat for Cha-focused characters.

Now if you were talking about improving luck of heroes or snake blooded or such feats then you might have a point.

[Krago]

Its an extremely powerful feat. Being able to substitute which stat is used to calculate a value is huge, especially when you consider how high our stats can go with all of the bonuses.

I would then assume that Insightful Reflexes and Weapon Finesse need to be changed as well.

[rimble]

Its an extremely powerful feat. Being able to substitute which stat is used to calculate a value is huge, especially when you consider how high our stats can go with all of the bonuses.

I would then assume that Insightful Reflexes and Weapon Finesse need to be changed as well.

I gotta disagree.

They don't really compare. High Cha classes already have high Will saves (+6 vs other classes). Raising it higher still is often overkill, and I just can't think of any particularly bad Will saves you need to often make anyways. Paladins already get to add their Cha to Saves, double-dipping it is excessive. None of the high-Cha classes really have the Feats to spare for it. Maybe Human could help that, but there are still probably better uses for that bonus feat.

High Int classes have low Reflex saves (aside from maybe Assassin Rogues) and so not only does Insightful Reflexes shore that up, but those classes often have Feats to spare. Not to mention, making Reflex saves is ALWAYS important. Every failed Reflex save SUCKS.

Insightful Reflexes: Extremely powerful due to the frequency of Reflex saves, the painfulness of failed Reflex saves and the comparitive ease of purchasing the Feat on high Int classes.

Force of Personality: Maybe occasionally useful sometimes, rarely, but the classes that can benefit from it shouldn't be 'wasting' a Feat on it.

[Infant]

Its an extremely powerful feat. Being able to substitute which stat is used to calculate a value is huge, especially when you consider how high our stats can go with all of the bonuses.

I would then assume that Insightful Reflexes and Weapon Finesse need to be changed as well.

Not a big fan of Weapon Finesse. IR, however, is a huge boost to survivability for any wizard. Contrary to FoP for sorcs. Unfortunately, not many Will-Save effects you can't buff against. Turbine could change this and make FoP more valuable.

Infant

[wax_on_wax_off]

I gotta disagree.

They don't really compare. High Cha classes already have high Will saves (+6 vs other classes). Raising it higher still is often overkill, and I just can't think of any particularly bad Will saves you need to often make anyways. Paladins already get to add their Cha to Saves, double-dipping it is excessive. None of the high-Cha classes really have the Feats to spare for it. Maybe Human could help that, but there are still probably better uses for that bonus feat.

High Int classes have low Reflex saves (aside from maybe Assassin Rogues) and so not only does Insightful Reflexes shore that up, but those classes often have Feats to spare. Not to mention, making Reflex saves is ALWAYS important. Every failed Reflex save SUCKS.

Insightful Reflexes: Extremely powerful

Force of Personality: Maybe occasionally useful sometimes, rarely, but the classes that can benefit from it shouldn't be 'wasting' a Feat on it.

Force of Personality has already received a recent significant buff: Vaults of the Artificers was released. This pack encourages soloing, sorcerer is one of the best classes for it and there are lots of casters throwing will based spells around.

I unlocked artificer and created multiple cannith items in the challenge packs and honestly I wish that I'd had Force of Personality as a good proportion of my deaths were on account of failed will saves. On the other hand, if I had kundarak delving boots I'm sure I'd dump the feat (but I haven't been running VoN much so no go).

[rimble]

Force of Personality has already received a recent significant buff: Vaults of the Artificers was released. This pack encourages soloing, sorcerer is one of the best classes for it and there are lots of casters throwing will based spells around.

I unlocked artificer and created multiple cannith items in the challenge packs and honestly I wish that I'd had Force of Personality as a good proportion of my deaths were on account of failed will saves. On the other hand, if I had kundarak delving boots I'm sure I'd dump the feat (but I haven't been running VoN much so no go).

I was going to say maybe more things will show up to make Will saves more important. Just came back from a break a few weeks ago and haven't been to the Vaults yet and have only done mid-level Challenges, so maybe they've already done that.

What were you running into? Holds? Were you REALLY failing them, or rolling 1's? FoP won't help with that...if you were to have decided to respec to it, what could you have traded out for it? Sorc Feats seem awfully tight to me.

Hey, there's a thought...have FoP eradicate the '1 always fails' part of Will saves...

[Krago]

I was going to say maybe more things will show up to make Will saves more important. Just came back from a break a few weeks ago and haven't been to the Vaults yet and have only done mid-level Challenges, so maybe they've already done that.

What were you running into? Holds? Were you REALLY failing them, or rolling 1's? FoP won't help with that...if you were to have decided to respec to it, what could you have traded out for it? Sorc Feats seem awfully tight to me.

Hey, there's a thought...have FoP eradicate the '1 always fails' part of Will saves...

I was running Elite Trogs Get and the warlocks had a DC of 30 at least on their Hold Person as my tank failed Will saves regularly. FoP shores up the weakness on my build tremendously (18 Ftr/ 2 Rog)

[rimble]

I was running Elite Trogs Get and the warlocks had a DC of 30 at least on their Hold Person as my tank failed Will saves regularly. FoP shores up the weakness on my build tremendously (18 Ftr/ 2 Rog)

That's a great example. Low Will Save multi-class with, I assume, a good Cha for Intimidate and UMD, and Fighter provides the bonus Feats to make FoP affordable.

[countfitz]

I'm not flat out disagreeing, BUT, no.

The reason is, people DO take this feat, so there must be a reason. We need to focus on the feats that are NEVER taken for ANY reason first.

Then focus on balancing feats that, like this one, can be used on certain very specific builds by some players that feel they can give up other, "better" feats for it.

[licho]

Bad idea is bad.
Each way to use X stat for Y purpose is a space to OPness, for example Wizz/Arti Insight Refles is very powerful.
In the same way using Cha for will is powerfull enought.

The only problems are:
- There is no ilusion spells to be aware.
- There are hardly any enchantment spells which cant be negated by FOM.

Devs should just add some annoying spells from ilusion and others spells, and make it harder to block and Force of Personality will become a must have, and futhermore the Bard PL will be more useful.

[sephiroth1084]

You know how you fix FoP?

You address the fact that we are able to become immune to most Will-based saves. Fix that and FoP will become more attractive.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I was going to say maybe more things will show up to make Will saves more important. Just came back from a break a few weeks ago and haven't been to the Vaults yet and have only done mid-level Challenges, so maybe they've already done that.

What were you running into? Holds? Were you REALLY failing them, or rolling 1's? FoP won't help with that...if you were to have decided to respec to it, what could you have traded out for it? Sorc Feats seem awfully tight to me.

Hey, there's a thought...have FoP eradicate the '1 always fails' part of Will saves...

Hold person and disco ball iirc much too frequently for it to only be 1s.

My feat list is:
Maximise, empower, heighten, extend, SF: Conj, spell pen, greater spell pen.

I'd drop extend. Extend is nice but hardly necessary since the changes.