Beverly Helfbilly Ranged Contender

[tinyelvis]

I was trying to decide what type of ranged toon to TR my multi-lifed sorcerer into. A good ranged toon needs in my opinion a number of things to be a good toon.

* High rate of fire.
* High damage bonus (base item damage really impacts overall damage little)
* Consistent fast movement to kite.
* Self sufficient and healing.

I noticed while running rate of fire tests that a shuriken with rapid shot, Shuriken expertise, and quick draw will have a higher rate of fire than a rapid shot bow. Further, with brutal throw you only need super buff one stat, namely strength (though dex should be as high as possible too for more chances at multi shots). Shurikens are by far the best thrown weapons currently in game. With a high enough damage buff differental over a bow (through things like halfling throwing buffs and strength stat boosts) it was possible theoretically to outperform even a manyshot bow over any 2 minute and 20 second period, especially once 10Kstars was added. See this post below for some practical appliation,

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=274374

However, the more I studied this the more it occurred to me that most all buffs due to strength and what not available to thrown weapons were also available to bow weapons via feats like zen archery and bow strength. Furthermore, making strength your primary stat, like some ranged builds is a nice approach for many reasons. However, since you only net a handful more points of damage over someone else (i.e. 2.5 buff points from stat boost.... ) who makes either dex or wisdom their primary stat while still buffing strength as much as possible, it seemed to me a better idea to make either Dex or Wisdom my primary stat.

So, I decided to return to bow use as opposed to shurikens utilizing Zen Archery. Any bow user IMO would be foolish not to pick up manyshot, which I obviously planned to do. In addition, though, I wanted to implement 10Kstars. This meant wisdom need to be buffed. Dexterity is only needed as a prereq to high end ranged feats. A final Dex of 19 is all that is necessary to pick up manyshot as well as improved precise shot. However, with a good race choice, enhancement buffs, and tomes, a starting DEX of 13 or 14 was all that was needed (I ended up down grading this further as will be seen). And therefore, chose wisdom as my primary stat. A high wisdom (40+) really improves the number of extra 10Kstar shots. This can radically increase rate of fire which is more important than a handful of extra strength bonuses.

Ok, lastly, since I had settled on a bow, I decided to shoot for the moon and add Arcane Archer capability. This ranged toon is loaded down to capacity and bulging with ranged capability like the truck driven by the Beverly Hillbillies. Feats and enhancements are really lean on this build and some corners needed to be cut. So, it is impossible to have all of the other ranged bells and whistles.

Beverly Helfbilly
Race Half Elf with 3 past sorcerer lives.
12 FVS / 6 Monk/ 2 Ranger
rouge dili: For cheap dex buff and back stabs

Starting Stats
S 13
D 16 < - will be buffed to 19 with tomes.
C 13
I 10
W 16 <- spend level stat buffs here
C 12

Feats:
1) Point blank shot; Bow Strength (Ranger)
2) Rapid shot (R)
3) Weapon focus ranged, Zen Archery(Monk);
4) Toughness (M)
6) Arcane Initiate
8) Dodge or Stunning fist (M)
9) Manyshot
12) Maximize
15) Precise shot
18) Improved Precise shot

Enhancements include:
Arcane Archer
10 Kstar
Angel of VEngeance
Ninja Spy I
Ranger Dili enhancements
Stat boosts
Some Light buffs

It was impossible to fit in precise shot and improved precise shot. This is very very regrettable. Essentially the choice is Arcane Archer and rogue bonus sneak attacks vs. Improved precise shot and the human. I elected to go with better burst DPS potential over Trash killing AOE prowess. I am not completely married to the AA approach and might reconsider. I took Dodge for Ninja Spy I and to help hopefully with KI generation (an aspect of this build that I am weakest on). Would welcome any monk advice. As I anticipated, enhancement selection was very tight and confined mostly to offensive buffs. This toon is not a healer (I am sure that will be popular).

This build also benefits from the FVS spell offensive capability which includes blade barrier use, and great self healing. I have never used 10kstars and am not an expert on KI generation, some advice here would be welcome especially toward 6th level monk enhancement selection. I will TR into this build come the update.

*edit: modified the build to include level of wizard. Lost a DC and die of damage off of spells, lost improved crit, but gained improved precise shot and maximize spell. Also reduced starting wisdom from 18 to 16 so I could increase dex enough to take improved precise shot.

*edit: Changed main class to cleric, dropped wiz and added ranger.

*final edit: Returned to the FVS, yeah. Picked up ranger dili and dropped BOW str feat. Now have a divine PRE. Details of this build are shown below.

post final edit: Ranger with rogue dili now and full bow strength is back in.

[wax_on_wax_off]

You need 19 dexterity after tomes but before enhancements to qualify for Improved Precise Shot, enhancements don't count.

Using a wizard level to qualify for AA is a great idea but it excludes Angel of Vengence so I'd go with 2 fighter instead (same amount of feats). This drops you back to 12 FvS though which loses a valuable level 6 slot.

Overall I'd prefer cleric for this build at the moment, I've got an example here.

[tinyelvis]

I really like that cleric build. I might switch over.

WRT your comment, you gain an extra feat with 2 fighters but need to spend one on mental toughness. You also lose another BB die damage. I also realized the mistake on improved precise shot, and need to modify again.

You seem the resident expert in this area, could you elaborate on your angel of vengence comment. AA and AOV are mutually exclusive?

[wax_on_wax_off]

I really like that cleric build. I might switch over.

WRT your comment, you gain an extra feat with 2 fighters but need to spend one on mental toughness. You also lose another BB die damage. I also realized the mistake on improved precise shot, and need to modify again.

You seem the resident expert in this area, could you elaborate on your angel of vengence comment. AA and AOV are mutually exclusive?

To qualify for AA with the wizard level you take energy of the scholar but to get AoV you need energy of the ... favoured soul.

Basically, you can't take the SP enhancement for both classes and that enhancement is required to qualify for each respective PrE. It's totally bogus but that's the way it is, until Divine Avenger is brought out it basically disqualifies Favoured Soul/Wizard Arcane Archer builds.

12 FvS is a horrible cut off point for this build, you have to choose out of blade barrier, heal or mass cure moderate, not very fun. On either build feats are a pain, I'm not sure if I'd prefer IPS or Maximise/empower or maximise and IPS (but no improved critical or empower). My general idea was that with an epic abishai (and, to a lesser extent, chaosrobe) set on the cleric variant you could get CL:17 on blade barrier and divine punishment on a 1 wizard variant (13/6/1). Tough call on whether to include IPS or not though.

[krackythehoodedone]

Ok i like the inventiveness but i have a few points.

For me an ''Archer'' must have PS + IPS. The skill then comes in running about tabbing different enemies and pouring all sorts of nasty debilitating procs through them w/o pulling aggro of them all.

If your going to have a build that delivers one devastating volley against one target. You could do that with a standard melee or the FB111 Bowbarian. At 18/1/1 this delivers a manyshot that will comfortably out DPS anything in the game for 20 seceonds.

Dex. I have a few pointers. Str and Wis are your key damage modifiers. To hit stuff aim for 30 dex at endgame. 36 if your going to go Epic. That is sufficient to hit pretty much everything comfortably.

Ok so with the re-jig what role do you forsee the toon performing in group. Will be party heal capable ? The BB 's will be helpful. So kinda a support toon ?

[tinyelvis]

Based on some good advice, I made the decision to dump a level of FVS and lose improve crit to pick up the wiz level and IPS. Thanks for AA/AOV info. This build is not just feat starved but enhancement starved too. Finding the points to pay for a third prestige line may be tough, but I hate to go without AOV. Maybe I can live without it. Better sleep on it. Went rogue dil instead of ranger for the bonus damage and cheap dex buff, and I want Bow strength feat for the open ended buff there.

I keep hemorrhaging important levels and bleeding off strength to plug holes in the build.

[tinyelvis]

Ok i like the inventiveness but i have a few points.

For me an ''Archer'' must have PS + IPS. The skill then comes in running about tabbing different enemies and pouring all sorts of nasty debilitating procs through them w/o pulling aggro of them all.

If your going to have a build that delivers one devastating volley against one target. You could do that with a standard melee or the FB111 Bowbarian. At 18/1/1 this delivers a manyshot that will comfortably out DPS anything in the game for 20 seceonds.

Dex. I have a few pointers. Str and Wis are your key damage modifiers. To hit stuff aim for 30 dex at endgame. 36 if your going to go Epic. That is sufficient to hit pretty much everything comfortably.

Ok so with the re-jig what role do you forsee the toon performing in group. Will be party heal capable ? The BB 's will be helpful. So kinda a support toon ?

Dex does not play the to hit role here, its wisdom. Dex is set to qualify for feats. I agree with the rest of your points though.

[FengXian]

I was thinking about something similar as a possible completionist life. Would be w/o IPS tho, and waiting on Divine Avenger anyway, to see if it gives some nice bow goodies.

I advice against ninja spy if all you're interested in from it is ki generation. You have to be in sneak mode to increase you ki-generation, the description is not very clear about this. Shadow Fade and 1d6 sneak damage at the cost of 1 feat might not be that good.

edit: this is probably not up to date, but that's what they had in mind for Silver Flame DA

Silver Flame accepts any of the following: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus: Ranged, or Zen Archery, and instead of a melee smite as their Oath, gets a ranged attack, and their Oath mechanic was a little bit different (and wasn't working properly at all ).

[krackythehoodedone]

Shows you how much i know about 10k stars and Zen Archery then. I shall be paying it much closer attention if they make me reset my enhancements.

Both Thrudh and Madmatt have Zen Archery things going on atm and they look promising too

So all you need is enough Dex for IPS. Ofc a high evasion is cool but you cant have everything. It seems fitting everything in is a problem as it is

Their is a really nice synergy between Cleric/Monk/Wis. Much better than FVS.

Post the finished product if you would

[tinyelvis]

I was thinking modifying this a bit. Perhaps

Cleric 11/Monk6/Ranger3

Could have the same feats essentially but get bow strength quicker and have die hard and two weapon fighting as well (not to mention some ranger buffs and favored enemy). Lose the FS AOV and another die on BB, but pick up Divine Might, and have more sixth level spells.

Yes, let me push through the enhancements on the generator but I think this may be what I am looking for. BTW, monk 6 is critical for 10kstar and ninja spy for passive KI generation with the added benefit of speed and extra feat. It takes a village to design a ranged toon.

[slimkj]

Sounds like fun. Are you eyeing primary class of Cleric for the past lives as well as the self-sufficiency? Just wondered if you were looking for a more fun way to get your DC boost before going back to Sorc is all given your past lives on it.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I was thinking modifying this a bit. Perhaps

Cleric 11/Monk6/Ranger3

Could have the same feats essentially but get bow strength quicker and have die hard and two weapon fighting as well (not to mention some ranger buffs and favored enemy). Lose the FS AOV and another die on BB, but pick up Divine Might, and have more sixth level spells.

Yes, let me push through the enhancements on the generator but I think this may be what I am looking for. BTW, monk 6 is critical for 10kstar and ninja spy for passive KI generation with the added benefit of speed and extra feat. It takes a village to design a ranged toon.

I'd go to 12 cleric, radiant servant II is very nice. Problem with ranger is losing another feat. Being a wisdom based build your strength won't be too good anyway so free up a feat slot for by taking ranger dilettante is a strong option I think. It gives the option of improved precise shot and maximise or empower, maximise and improved critical.

A 13 cleric / 6 monk / 1 wizard could have a CL 19 Divine Punishment from the PrE, epic Abishai set and chaosrobe. That along with a decent DC on your blade barrier (from your sorc PLs) and improved precise shot would seem to make for a viable character.

[tinyelvis]

I'd go to 12 cleric, radiant servant II is very nice. Problem with ranger is losing another feat. Being a wisdom based build your strength won't be too good anyway so free up a feat slot for by taking ranger dilettante is a strong option I think. It gives the option of improved precise shot and maximise or empower, maximise and improved critical.

A 13 cleric / 6 monk / 1 wizard could have a CL 19 Divine Punishment from the PrE, epic Abishai set and chaosrobe. That along with a decent DC on your blade barrier (from your sorc PLs) and improved precise shot would seem to make for a viable character.

I originally considered the ranger dilitant. The ranger dili caps out at about a 26 strength, though. I know I can pull in much more strength than that (from items, spells buffs, and other forms) so for me I think I need the bow strength. Also, you don't lose a feat with ranger class if you plan on getting bow strength, so essentially you get 4 free feats to a fighters 2. With three past sorcerer lives to make up for no heighten and very high end game wisdom 40+, the blade barrier will still have a good DC. It should be mid to high 30s.

Divine punishment is one of the main reasons I like the FVS/CLR option. But, additional level only add a +1 base damage. So, I would only net essentially +2 base bonus over an 11th cleric, but would also net 7th level spells. The BB DC is another good point and for me a better incentive.

Stacking Divine punishment, potential BB, and divine might and power backed burst bow DPS will really help boss fights. IPS and BB will help trash mob killing and controlling. I am liking your cleric ideas. This build just might outperform a Bowbarian. Keep in mind, only exclusive Bowbarian strength traits set them apart. All other strength buffs can be had by this build. This doesn't even count the situational 4 sneak attacks (like a 7th level rogue) with equivalent damage boost on average of 14 (equivalent to +28 strngth), or the ranger's favored enemy (equivalent to a +6 strength boost).

If only I could fit in empower.

[tinyelvis]

Sounds like fun. Are you eyeing primary class of Cleric for the past lives as well as the self-sufficiency? Just wondered if you were looking for a more fun way to get your DC boost before going back to Sorc is all given your past lives on it.

If this build falls flat end game, it will at least be a great way for me to level FVS and/or Cleric for completionist and past life buffs (a thing I dreaded doing).

[FengXian]

Ranger 3 will give you no ranger buffs, they get lv 1 spells at lv 4.

I would definitely stop at ranger 2, or maybe even replace it with fighter 2, not sure. Ranger 3 only gives you diehard, pretty worthless unless you want to use it as shintao pre-req, which does not seem to be the case.

You could go ranger 2 for free bow str+rapid shot (and TWF, you'll have to melee at least a bit after all), a FE and sprint boost, or fighter 2 (same bow str+rapid shot, losing TWF but +1 str and haste boost...ranger 2 seems better overall).

So maybe cleric 12 (I wouldn't give up radiant servant II for just 1 level of something), monk 6, ranger 2.

I also would drop IPS on this build, you already have BBs for some AoE, you could spare 2 feats and start with dex 11 instead of 16.

And again, mind NS I passive ki generation works in stealth mode only, it's a pain to keep up in most situations where you'd rather be running, jumping etc.

[tinyelvis]

I will probably dump the ranger 3 for cleric 12.

I don't think losing IPS is a good idea. I also understand your point with ninja I. I will go with ninja I and see how well it works out with the idea of swapping feats later.

[FengXian]

Having played both IPS AA and IPS-less AA, I can tell the main reason rangers or most other AA builds want IPS is because they have no other AoE damage source.
Unfortunately the fact that you need 14 dex for 10kS (and in this particular case, 17 for MS) makes it so that dropping IPS doesn't give you as big an advantage stat-wise as it would if dropping it meant being able to completely dump dex (as it could have been on ranger 11/monk 9 before U12).
You would be able to start with dex 14 (not 11, my bad) instead of 16, which means str/con 16 instead of 14. Nothing special either. I guess the only way to know for sure is testing and seeing if you're ok with just BB or if you actually get a great benefit for IPS despite BB.

I think this kind of build has some potential but as I said I'm gonna wait until Divine Avenger, Warpriest and/or epic levels. This could also be a fun way of making an AA completionist, in order to make use of both melee and caster past lives (at least most of them). In the meantime I'll be waiting for some feedback.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Having played both IPS AA and IPS-less AA, I can tell the main reason rangers or most other AA builds want IPS is because they have no other AoE damage source.
Unfortunately the fact that you need 14 dex for 10kS (and in this particular case, 17 for MS) makes it so that dropping IPS doesn't give you as big an advantage stat-wise as it would if dropping it meant being able to completely dump dex (as it could have been on ranger 11/monk 9 before U12).
You would be able to start with dex 14 (not 11, my bad) instead of 16, which means str/con 16 instead of 14. Nothing special either. I guess the only way to know for sure is testing and seeing if you're ok with just BB or if you actually get a great benefit for IPS despite BB.

I think this kind of build has some potential but as I said I'm gonna wait until Divine Avenger, Warpriest and/or epic levels. This could also be a fun way of making an AA completionist, in order to make use of both melee and caster past lives (at least most of them). In the meantime I'll be waiting for some feedback.

2 ranger is good if you take stunning fist instead of dodge (so light path instead of dark for light side buffs). Stunning Fist on a wisdom based build is pretty brutal and the extra offhand proc from ranger 2 will really help land that. It provides something to other than kite mobs that you get aggro from - quick swap to wraps, stun them etc.

I think while leveling building and having IPS will be more of a liability than an advantage. Plenty of AoE damage is available from Blade Barrier as it is. However, if you want to play the character at cap I think IPS will start to shine if you have CC bows like Alchemical Earth Bow (with water on second tier), Epic Bow of Earth, Epic Frozen Tunic, Crippling Arrowhead etc.

There's a cost though, if you skip IPS and take empower/maximise/empower healing instead then you can plausibly fill a back up healer spot with a combination of bursts and spells (particularly on a 13 cleric / 6 monk / 1 wizard build).

I'd want 14 base charisma on this build if possible for the extra turns for bursts or DMII which is a nice source of damage.

[tinyelvis]

Now that I found a way to get IPS on this build, I am pretty stubbornly set on keeping it. Though I understand your point. I don't really care about party healing or backup healing. There just are not enough enhancement options to make it workable. I imagine most of my leveling will be solo play or with knowledgable folk and friends.

I will have good buffs to charisma, and dont see where I could take points to increase the base value even if I wanted to.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Now that I found a way to get IPS on this build, I am pretty stubbornly set on keeping it. Though I understand your point. I don't really care about party healing or backup healing. There just are not enough enhancement options to make it workable. I imagine most of my leveling will be solo play or with knowledgable folk and friends.

I will have good buffs to charisma, and dont see where I could take points to increase the base value even if I wanted to.

12 strength
19-(tome+possible level ups) dexterity
12 constitution
8 intelligence
14 wisdom
16-(best tome charisma)

This is the starting point for a decent stat spread. Assuming +3 dex and +2 charisma that puts you at 30 points spent.

With gear, self healing and ranged DPS I'd say that a 12 starting con is reasonable (alternatively I might be tempted to start with 14 and then skip toughness - no FvS toughness enhancements to worry about now but that's assuming a +45 GS HP item).

12 strength is the starting point as I'm not sure if you're set on Bow Strength yet or if Ranger Dilettante is an option. If going for ranger dilettante and starting with 12 strength (still reasonably easy to hit the 26 you need to cap it) lets you start with 14 charisma then you'll end up with more damage overall from the +4 damage from Divine Might II.

Left over points straight into wisdom of course - 16 starting is ideal.