Special rewards on every 10th raid completion?

[Silverleafeon]

The recent changes in update 13 concerning a full list of end rewards on every third completion of quest chains
has got everyone wondering what else the developers have planed?

There is a lot of pondering and thinking going on here about Raid loot:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=362879

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=362728

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=359461

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=362206

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=362424

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=362868

I have enjoyed reading and pondering all of this, and there are some good ideas here.


Yesterday, I noticed that the newest raid:

http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Lord_of_Blades
has this:
"Special rewards on every 10th completion: Your choice of standard spirit, cell or compound. Also a small chance at a random refined spirit. "

I am not sure what you get if you do Master Artificer 10 times, as I am still learning the cannith raids?


I pause to wonder if changing the standard of all raids from receiving a special list at 20 completions to receiving a special list at 10 completions would be a good comprimise change?


It does offer something for everyone, hence those unlucky souls who go 80 completions without getting their favorite item, would now only have to make 40 completions to not get their favorite item. Those "completionist project" characters who bemoan being 15 raids short of a special list when they TR, would now only bemoan being 5 raids short of a special list when they TR.


Perhaps this is not the perfect answer, but it avoids the possible bugs introduced by keeping raid counters when one TRs. Also, it does not change the raiding system very much. Its implemetation might be fairly easy, swapping the number 20 for 10? Concerns of raid loot being too easy to get, might not object to this approach? Concerns of everyone only doing a certain raid and exchanging universal raid tockens for the raid they want are avoided as well.

Would this be a comprise that the Developers might be interested in?

Would it be possible to offer something special on ten completions of Tempest Spine and Chronoscope?

Would it be possible to offer something special on ten completions of Epic Quests?

[Forzah]

Either that, or reduce timers to 1 day. I don't really see the intuition behind having 3 day timers.. it's no fun.

[Silverleafeon]

Lol, just notice someone already came up with this idea:
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...42&postcount=4

[dungeonD123]

My opinion is that the 20th raid completion is fine. It is important to note the distinction between LoB and the other raids. LoB's 10th list offers 1 of many required ingredients needed to craft an alchemical item, whereas the other raids give ready-to-use raid loot. It's appropriate that LoB has a lower completion counter required to get a special list. / not signed for this suggestion. The loot doesnt need to be given out so quickly and freely.

[Forzah]

My opinion is that the 20th raid completion is fine. It is important to note the distinction between LoB and the other raids. LoB's 10th list offers 1 of many required ingredients needed to craft an alchemical item, whereas the other raids give ready-to-use raid loot. It's appropriate that LoB has a lower completion counter required to get a special list. / not signed for this suggestion. The loot doesnt need to be given out so quickly and freely.

It's a whole 2 months though.... if you get on timer every time. Quite a steep requirement.

[Forgeborn]

First: thank you for recognizing my post and giving credit Silverleafeon.

My opinion is that the 20th raid completion is fine. It is important to note the distinction between LoB and the other raids. LoB's 10th list offers 1 of many required ingredients needed to craft an alchemical item, whereas the other raids give ready-to-use raid loot. It's appropriate that LoB has a lower completion counter required to get a special list. / not signed for this suggestion. The loot doesnt need to be given out so quickly and freely.

Most of the lord of blades stuff, except the spirits, are also either unbound (power cells), or bound to account (fragments/binding shards), so the 'limiting' factor there only applies to the people that can only run it with a single character. That, and the power cells drop pretty commonly.

to put it differently: I can run LoB 1/day, using 3 toons, and finish an item in ~30 days, assuming that i can form groups powerful enough to complete epic lord of blades (e.g. guild/channelruns), and I get the equisite spirit on the character that needs the completed item (e.g. that char needs to run epic till he gets it). It's not uncommon to see 3 or 4 spirits in the chest per run, a good deal going for roll.

However, to get, let's say Torc of prince Raiyum-de II, which every caster and their mom wants. I'd prolly need to run the raid 20 times to get a chance at it, several people taking 60+ runs to get it speaks for itself I reckon.

[dungeonD123]

In the example of the Torc, I could also run DQ 1/day on 3 different casters and come out a Torc on each in 2 months or sooner if it drops in chest or passed. On multiple characters running DQ or eDQ, noticed guildies and I usually get it within 20 runs. The majority getting it before. If you have multiple characters running LoB , they're all going to want to get their alchemical weapons, so still needing to run it a ton. The Martial / Mystical cells are the limiting factor since they only drop in 10th reward list.

[Ryiah]

Either that, or reduce timers to 1 day. I don't really see the intuition behind having 3 day timers.. it's no fun.

It is a carryover from the days when the game was subscription only. Raids are, at least for older MMOs, the traditional PvE end game. The timers are a way to stretch the raids as far as possible reducing the amount of real content the developers had to make.

The timer for raids in DDO is 66 hours (2 days 18 hours). Compare that to World of Warcraft where you can at most run a raid once per week (the raids more or less all reset on Tuesday at 3:00AM or during weekly maintenance). DDO is even more generous by giving us a 20th completion list.

[Forgeborn]

In the example of the Torc, I could also run DQ 1/day on 3 different casters and come out a Torc on each in 2 months or sooner if it drops in chest or passed. On multiple characters running DQ or eDQ, noticed guildies and I usually get it within 20 runs. The majority getting it before. If you have multiple characters running LoB , they're all going to want to get their alchemical weapons, so still needing to run it a ton. The Martial / Mystical cells are the limiting factor since they only drop in 10th reward list.

Except, that I can 'combine' the effort in of all characters and finish character A's alchemical weapon (let's say that is my 'main' character), or keep running character A And B after they already completed theirs to 'help' a slew of alts, even if they don't need stuff from there anymore, one cannot do that with a torc, since it's BTC (also, the martial and mystical power cells DO drop in the end chest for LoB, I personally pulled 1 martial cell, and 2 mystical cells, in 12 runs, and picked up a 3rd martial in 10th list.)

[Silverleafeon]

I can understand the concern of raid loot being too easy to get.

Wanders off dazed and confused by all the many discussions on raid loot...

My main character is taking 3 months off to get my 20 raid completions,
I guess I'll be able to try out a new class about the time the summer epic/druid/enhancement update arrives.

[Silverleafeon]

By the way, if it does not bug the game out, I would be happy with just keeping my raid counters when I TR.
Having thrown away 50ish completions so far...

[-Zephyr-]

The Martial / Mystical cells are the limiting factor since they only drop in 10th reward list.

Just came accross this and figured it should be corrected : martial and mystical cells drop decently enough in LoB's end chest. Not the one you get for opts or elemental killing, but the one for simply completing.

And for completions lasting through TRs, there's another thread asking for that...
I personally think the system is fine as is, but wouldn't mind seeing our chances at raid loot improved a bit (and my wizard is one of those with 60+ completions with no torc, closing on 80th).

[Aaxeyu]

Either that, or reduce timers to 1 day. I don't really see the intuition behind having 3 day timers.. it's no fun.

This!

[maddmatt70]

You guys and your easy buttons. What a bunch of badgers. I say we give out a special end reward list on the 5th completion or how about the 2nd completion.

[Silverleafeon]

Personally, my only real concern is throwing away 12 shrouds, 8 von, 9 reaver, 7 DQ, etc, every time I TR.

Overall, I very happy with the game, taking a vacation from leveling up.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Either that, or reduce timers to 1 day. I don't really see the intuition behind having 3 day timers.. it's no fun.

This!

Please, this!
Really, I see no sane reason for the game to limit how much I can play the content I like. There are too few raids to keep a powergamer busy for 3 days. A solid player that has a lot of time does all the raids in one day - easily. And is then left playing another game for 2 days, or watching series or doing some epics they don't need (Alright, they may need 1-2 quests total, but that's an hour tops). Point is, if they want to increase how much there is to do at the endgame, just remove silly, arbitrary caps like the raid timer.

PS: I'd pay for it if necessary.

[Jsbeer]

Its a psychological thing to keep people playing. If you were able to run raids as often as you like then you would either burn out or get what you wanted very quickly and get bored. This way they force you to come back over an extended period of time...

[bhgiant]

/not signed

I can see the list being ok on LoB but not on the rest. Not that I wouldn't like to get my loot faster, but I care more about this game's longevity than getting any item. That 20th completion is a good milestone. You get a good sense of accomplishment and you are rewarded for it.

[Emili]

My opinion is that the 20th raid completion is fine. It is important to note the distinction between LoB and the other raids. LoB's 10th list offers 1 of many required ingredients needed to craft an alchemical item, whereas the other raids give ready-to-use raid loot. It's appropriate that LoB has a lower completion counter required to get a special list. / not signed for this suggestion. The loot doesnt need to be given out so quickly and freely.

/not signed

I can see the list being ok on LoB but not on the rest. Not that I wouldn't like to get my loot faster, but I care more about this game's longevity than getting any item. That 20th completion is a good milestone. You get a good sense of accomplishment and you are rewarded for it.

I dunno... there can be extremes wouldn't it be nice... I really thought one hundred eighty runs be a tad much (a year and a half) chasing ONE item... and not counting her first life, shes pretty much run it five years or so. Lol, This toon has had dups and trips of every item from DQ except the item she was running it for.... sold most as fodder, including torcs.

Been cordial to people round me though thru such... but as disappointment at times you'd see a thread on forum from me like such above every year or so. Not that I wanted attention or blamed anyone or even envious over pixels but more thought afters 'bout five or six list tends to grate on ya and by seven or eight those missing pixels become more a principle - "It's got to be there some stinkin' time!". Reality is however it does not.

... and then sometimes because people are chasing one item for so long the frustration gets them in quest and become a little miffed at the system really and aim that frustration elsewheres Could we have less grief maybe?

All an all the system in place really is set that ... you may never ever get the item from a list. The system I care less ... the game I care more, all which be needed are viable equal alternatives and content release match the average time of achieveable goals be all. We do not want the game saturated yet we do not want the game stagnant... I much rather be htting goals running many different raids than enamoured in one.

This be why shroud was such a great raid for it's time... and still is to some. I was saturated in GS on thirteen characters a year and a half later and hardly run it cept for a raid counter these days... but the feelin' of headway is built in raids and elob, Even ToD to some point, See while the other raids they can be not nearly rewarding for the time placed into them.

Please, this!
Really, I see no sane reason for the game to limit how much I can play the content I like. There are too few raids to keep a powergamer busy for 3 days. A solid player that has a lot of time does all the raids in one day - easily. And is then left playing another game for 2 days, or watching series or doing some epics they don't need (Alright, they may need 1-2 quests total, but that's an hour tops). Point is, if they want to increase how much there is to do at the endgame, just remove silly, arbitrary caps like the raid timer.

PS: I'd pay for it if necessary.

I think our raid schedule covers close to 30 a week by alternating days. Usually we do bout 4 to 6+ epic LoB as example and bout 4 or 8 on hard... most other epic raids we hit least twice a week and the lower raids like VoD we seldom do, is upon request as a choice. Reaver fate I do not think they consider doing at all, likewise Titan...