Caster Cleric

[SirValentine]

OMG are you kidding?? I destroy with a combo of slay living + destruction.

Exactly.

Dont waste a slot on heal boost feat. I have never had it on any FVS or cleric and never needed it.

I might agree for a FvS. But until there are more PrE choices, it is worth it for a Cleric, as the PrE pre-req. All that free healing means that much more SP for Slay Living.

[SirValentine]

Dude, a square can be a rectangle but a rectangle can't be a square.

OK, I realize someone necro'd this thread, and I'm being pedantic, but...you might want to be more careful with geometry analogies.

All squares are automatically rectangles, and rectangles certainly can be squares.

[HuneyMunster]

might be crazy, but I find DCs more important than spell pen UNLESS you're going to be really investing in spell pen. Plenty of mobs don't have spell pen. If they do, blade barrier or divine punishment is your friend.

SO, I would go MAX dc unless you're doing past lives to get spell pen.

Here's a thought:

18/1/1 Cleric, Monk, Wizard HUMAN = 10 feats


-Toughness
-emp heal
-empower
-maximize
-heighten
-quicken
-sf necro
-gsf necro
-sf evo
-gsp evo
-Epic Feat1: Epic evo
-Epic Feat2: Epic Necro

Start 18 wis, all levels up+human adapt

Stay in water stance for +1 DC

Level 25

wis= 18+6 levels+8item+2insight+1exceptional+2ship+1human+2t ome+2waterstance+3 enhancement

=45 wisdom (doesn't include yugo, +3 insight(1 more), littany, alchemical +2 wis, OR +3/+4/+5 tome etc..)

+5 wis angel destiny

=50 wis. (+20 mod)

General DC buffed: 41 (10+spell+ level9+20 modifier+2 spell focus item)

Necro dc: 44
Evo dc: 44


This will land reliably in Epic Hard.

Want higher? A little gear and destiny work will get 1-7ish more.


DETAILS:
(add +4tome (2more) +3insight(1 higher)+1littany+2yugo+2alchemical+1 exalted destiny+1twisted from GMOF)

60 wis (+5 DC)
Magister twist (+3 to necro)
Draconic twist (+2 to evo)

+3 spell focus item. (net incease of 1)

New General DC: 47
New Necro: 50
New Evo: 49

First life epic dcs? No problem.

(Higher if you do a wiz life and/or 1-3 sorc lives)


Wait... Why were we arguing about evo vs necro again???






EDIT: Here's a similarish build I just saw on forums: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=401045

I posted a thread asking for advine on a 18/1/1 cleric/monk/wiz build for my 2nd lifeon my cleric. I think this looks like the one I will go for. Though I currently have the elite Impulse version of Shadomail and Forgotten Light, so would have to change my items abit.

Though now Im planning on doing at least 1 wizard life and 3 sorcerer lives 1st. I would drop Epic Evo for Wiz PL feat. Hopefuly by time I got those past lives Epic Tor will be out and I can upgrade my Blue Dragonscale armor to an Epic version. I have Staff of the Necromancer and would then need some monk weapons to cover BB, Implosion and Comet damge types. Fully upgraded Twilight staff would be perfect for this, or a pair of Alchemical Crafted monk weapons and even decent random generated weapons.

[Zachski]

I was kinda thinking this for a Pure Cleric caster, trying to go for a "standard" build.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Standard Caster Cleric
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(20 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 1437 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 5
Will: 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    12
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               18                    26
Charisma             14                    14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    10
Bluff                 2                     2
Concentration         6                    25
Diplomacy             2                     2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     2
Heal                  4                    11
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            2                     2
Jump                  1                     1
Listen                4                     8
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  4                     8
Swim                  1                     1
Tumble               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Intervention
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

I'm not sure what to do for epic feats, though.

The goal is to heal the party through positive energy bursts and auras while putting out significant DPS and CC through offensive use of magic. Necromancy was taken because it boosts the insta-death power of two spells, whereas Evocation affects Implosion and Blade Barrier. Implosion has multiple attempts, and Blade Barrier does not suffer as significantly a loss from -2 DC as Slay Living and Destruction do.

(Also, it's kinda fun to be a Cleric who literally consigns enemies to death)

Unfortunately, I only know caster clerics in theory. I will say, though, that I would prefer Cleric over FVS for both Turn abilities (more useful than you'd think at low levels) and for heavy armor over medium armor.

As for why no level of wizard to boost Blade Barrier? In my opinion, my DPS is going to be coming from Divine Punishment, and I already have enhancements for that. Otherwise, my CC abilities are more valuable, and Blade Barrier deals significant damage even without the boost from Force Enhancements.

EDIT: Whoops, forgot to actually make a 32 point build instead of a 28 point build. Fixed.

[butcheredspirit]

@Zachski

Necromantic cleric's have a long history in D&D.
It is hard to do this first life on DDO tho.

I notice your lack of spell pen, if it were me I'd -

Drop Wand and Scroll Mastery 2,3,4
Drop Divine Vitality 2

Max Improved Spell Pen enhancements.

As for feats, I don't wana suggest anything to change the theme of your build.
But you could drop Shield Mastery for Spell Penetration,
Consider dropping Greater Necromancy Focus for Greater Spell Penetration.
Consider Epic Spell Penetration, a great feat.


I won't get into it more than that, both dc and spell pen are important.
It looks like you have a plan to deal with high SR mobs, since you have max +emp.

If only we had more feats.

[Zachski]

Why drop Shield Mastery, though?

That's basically 10 PRR, which is excellent. And since Caster Clerics don't really need to-hit anyways, no need for Tower Shield Proficiency.

Then there's Improved Shield Mastery, which is an epic feat.

I will consider getting more Spell Pen in my build somehow. Maybe trade Empower and something else for it or something.

[Wipey]

You need quicken for mass heal, energy drain and slay living ( not just for these of course ) sir.
Any spellcaster will wipe the floor with low balance with tower shield, low reflex cleric without quicken.
Unless you like "interrupted" and "you are not facing" messages for some reason.
Call me a noob, but can't imagine hjealing anything worthwile without it, really.
There are much better feats than shield mastery.

[Zachski]

You need quicken for mass heal, energy drain and slay living ( not just for these of course ) sir.
Any spellcaster will wipe the floor with low balance with tower shield, low reflex cleric without quicken.
Unless you like "interrupted" and "you are not facing" messages for some reason.
Call me a noob, but can't imagine hjealing anything worthwile without it, really.
There are much better feats than shield mastery.

Ah, Quicken, that was the feat I forgot.

How does replacing Empower sound?

Last I checked, PRR was kinda the rage these days. Being able to reduce physical damage by a percentage means Cleric die much less.

Regardless, I do not actually plan to wear a tower shield all the time. Then again, even wizards and sorcerers take shield mastery so that they can whip out a tower shield when they need to. If them, why not a Cleric?

[psykopeta]

1st life means no pl, not enough ability points, and probably, not enough gear

u can't think about prr, and ac, and spell penetration, and big mana pool, and high dc, and...

you should focus in what your thread says: cleric caster

that means everything out of this line is useless (cause the lack of pl and gear you may not be good enough in all the aspects u want, the less the better)

big mana pool: no sp no heals no spells, thats between the 1st and the 2nd most important, if u can cast an implosion but havent enough sp to hold you alive, will die before implosion does its job, bad idea

high dc: no dc no party, only light spells (really useful at boss fights or ee, cause your dc won't be enough), if you wanna be a "light spells clr caster" should check your enhancements, the more you invest here the less you have for other things XD

spell penetration: first life doesn't deserve even dreaming about it, iirc the minimum sr needed for eh was 34, that means the mobs with lowest sr in eh have 35, you should have to invest 3 feats and enhancement points to reach that minimal, is a must? no, is it worth in a 1st life? no, 35 is the minimum for eh, and u will end using ed or whatever to hit that number when isn't a must or a need

the splash with wizard is nice cause u get 1 extra metamagic feat and fire & force manipulation enhancements (bb, cometfall, flame strike) and boosts highly your damage at heroic lvls, once u hit epic they aren't that nice, remember if you are gonna take some focus or gsf, evocation stops being nice at epic lvls, if you wanna use those 2 feats? do it, world won't end, but if you aren't gonna tr, you are gonna swap the 2 evo focus... take enchantment instead?well... if you wanna get some focus i think it's better (nobody forces you to take 2 or 3 spell focus line lol, first i said in a 1st life is the more concrete the best) in fact if you are gonna use that 2 feats i would take sp pool probably, its nice to 1 shot mobs, its not nice to chunk 1 pot every room

the 2 only spells are needed quickened are mass heal and implosion (and some burst for u)

and dunno what more suggest, u have the tips, you build it cause you are gonna play it

almost forgot it, toughness is only needed if you started playing now or if you are gonna drop con (so toughness balances the hp loss cause con)

it's nice to see wf sorc with 400 hp at lvl 15 not even close to the 1st kills place, cause they focused on hp, simply (max con, feat, enhancements and then... spells? what are they for?) so u have a self healing melee with poor bab and str, with a nice blue bar, for self healing thought

[Zachski]

Ela kapu turana evalia!

*casts Create Undead on the thread*

Okay, joking and nonsensical mumbo jumbo aside

I've been thinking about the build I posted some more, and...

Just how useful is Spell Penetration to a Cleric anyways? I mean, we aren't wizards. We can't achieve wizard levels of spell penetration. It would be nice if, say, Dwarves got a spell pen addition to their cleric-specific Sp enhancements, like Elf gets with wizard, but we don't know if that'll happen, or when.

It almost seems like, any quest with spell penetration, we're better off relying on spells that aren't affected by spell pen, instead of building for spell pen. I'm basing this off of some discussion I just recently read about Clerics building for spell pen.

Hmm...

The reason I want Wand and Scroll Mastery is because I'm probably going to need to use heal scrolls at some point in time, and I want to maximize my heal per scroll. So that HAS to stay maxed.

AC doesn't worry me too much, honestly. I mean, granted, as a Cleric I naturally have higher AC due to wearing heavy armor and a shield, but what's more important to me is PRR. Now, I may switch to a large shield instead of a tower shield simply because of the Balance issues.

Let's see, um...hmm... Greater Focus Necromancy... I think I can get rid of that. One DC isn't going to make or break this build. I'll get Quicken in its place.

It's not feasible, AP or feat wise, to max spell pen, even on a pure caster Cleric. We are feat starved. Not to mention we have a lot of other feats we need. And enhancements.

[SirValentine]

Just how useful is Spell Penetration to a Cleric anyways? I mean, we aren't wizards. We can't achieve wizard levels of spell penetration.
<snip>
It almost seems like, any quest with spell penetration, we're better off relying on spells that aren't affected by spell pen, instead of building for spell pen. I'm basing this off of some discussion I just recently read about Clerics building for spell pen.

You could quite reasonably skip building for Spell Pen. Makes fitting needed feats in much easier, too.

But it is possible to reach no-fail spell pen on a first-life Cleric for Epic Hard Drow and Epic Elite everything else. EE Drow would be out of reach, though.

Clerics are only behind non-Elf wizzies by 4 points of Spell Pen potential, so it's really not that different. With past lives, a Cleric could hit no-fail on all EE Drow except the priestesses.

There are quite a few nice spells that are affected by Spell Pen, and there isn't replacements for them, just work-arounds. Implosion, Energy Drain, Greater Command, Hold, Slay Living, Banishment, the Symbol spells, etc.. Cometfall is awesome, but it only gets you so far. I guess it depends on whether you want to be able to be the main caster for a Drow-heavy quest. If not, then maybe you just don't care about Spell Pen.

It would be nice if, say, Dwarves got a spell pen addition to their cleric-specific Sp enhancements, like Elf gets with wizard, but we don't know if that'll happen, or when.

I made that exact suggestion in the Suggestions forum a couple months back, and boy did a some folks show up to shout me down. Not sure why they hated the idea so much.