Caster Cleric

[CanuckWisdom]

Hi all, I'm looking for some advice and suggestions before I lesser reincarnate my cleric who I'm looking to be a capable healer, and caster type, as opposed to melee.

I'd like to be able to do some decent crowd control and offensive casting when Im not healing, it would be nice to be able to solo a bit with offensive spells. It seems to me that if I am going to pick up spell focus feats, its going to be more worth it to do necro for the insta kills DC than evocation for the damage spells (saved against they will still do some damage), but I just dont know really, so Im looking for advice on what/if I should be focusing on a spell school.

With a high necro DC, are spells like Harm or cause serious mass worth while? Will I be able to use destruction and slay living in raids? Epics?

Im thinking, realistically, I'll probably be healing for enough that the crit multiplier enhancement line is a bit silly eh?

Im only lesser reincarnating, so I wont be switching race etc, though I know drow is probably not ideal.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.01
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Saydenah SilverBlayze
Level 20 True Neutral Drow Female
(20 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 1457 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 6
Will: 20

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             10                 10                   10
Dexterity            10                 10                   10
Constitution         14                 14                   14
Intelligence         10                 10                   10
Wisdom               17                 24                   26
Charisma             13                 14                   14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               0                  1                    1
Bluff                 1                  2                    2
Concentration         6                 24                   24
Diplomacy             3                 20                   20
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                  2                    2
Heal                  3                  8                   10
Hide                  0                  0                    0
Intimidate            1                  2                    2
Jump                  0                  1                    1
Listen                3                  8                   10
Move Silently         0                  0                    0
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                  0                    0
Search                0                  0                    2
Spot                  3                  8                   10
Swim                  0                  0                    0
Tumble                1                  1                    1
Use Magic Device      n/a               n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Follower of Vulkoor
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Vulkoor's Avatar
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing II


Level 13 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 14 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS

I have spell penetration for the last feat. I have no clue if this is really worthwhile end game for a cleric. I'm also considering:
-Spell Focus Enchantment or Evocation
-Mental Toughness
-Extra Turning
-Empower spell (SP costs are already pretty high though, and with necro focus this may not be best idea)
-Quicken.... not very excited about this, how useful is it really...?
-Shield Mastery I could see being good, but its likely that I'll be running with two scepters or the like much of the time anyways.

I'm also thinking two levels of monk might be nice, a bonus to saves, evasion (though I have full plate lined up would go to waste), I suppose water stance could add to wisdom and DC's and two feats... maybe another toughness and ... or 2x toughness, not sure what else a caster cleric would want from that list.
Would loose, caster level, spell points (200ish) and 8 and 9 spell slots.

Anyways, thoughts and comments on how to improve please.

[PNellesen]

Personally, on an offensive casting-focused cleric, I would take Wisdom as high as possible, starting with 18, even on a 28pt build.

With Heighten and full maxed Wisdom + SF feats, you should be able to reliably land Implosion/Destruction/Slay Living in Epic content (especially if you cast Energy Drain first. Nothing like the feeling you get the first time you take out an enemy Epic caster before they have a chance to do anything to the party )

Regarding your last feat, Empower is nice combined with Maximize for maxing damage on Divine Punishment, Blade Barriers, etc. You've already got Necro covered, so something to make boss fights go a little faster is always good

[firemedium_jt]

You will have plenty of turns at lvl20, so drop CHR down to 10 or even 8 and take wisdom 18. +2 tomes drop all the time on lvl20 content. U can even drop chr to 8 and take str12. With 18 Wisdom and level ups take Wisdom 3 to even out wisdom.

Dump the critical healing line and take the critical smiting line tier 3 on both lines to hit and damage multiplier. Divine Punishment is your boss killer, and dragon killer. BB rocks with eardweller and 9% critical from item. Divine punishment will critical with items 18% of the time when it ticks off on bosses for sure. You cant rely on critical healing tactically and with the above my BB criticals for 650-700 and my dp for 300+.

Every Cleric with heal spell is a capable healer with heal spell and heal scroll while spell on cooldown, and maybe a mass heal here and there. You can increase turns with enhancments. I prefer empower rather than spell pen feat, but as long as u have maximize u will be ok. Empower buffs all your damage spells and is worth it IMHO. Some say it is too inefficient, but when u add in the criticals from gear it is well worth it. With eardweller (that is easy to get in dreaming dark optional chest) and critical greenblade or skiver empower really adds more than some of the math on the forums lead u to believe.

Dump cleric critical healing prayer of life and incred life, so just take tier 1 for RS1. Take one of divine vitality and divine clensing for RS1 too. The only things for these are the prereq. for raidiant servant 1 and 2, so vitality or clensing but not both. If u need more enhancement pts get rid of energy zealot too. Not sure about Vulkoor's Avatar either.

Empower and quicken are probably more important than SF and spell pen IMHO on a first life 28pt build, but some would disagree on here. With past lives for spell pen and spell pen feats and spell pen enhancements then SF for your insta kill, you will be a insta kill machine. Without the spell pen feats then just some trouble in epic I think, but I never tried this yet, so others might want to chime in here.

[Mubjon]

If you want to insta-kill then SF: Necro is the way to go and Harm is nice for a damage spell as it also is boosted by your healing enhancements. As well you can surprise that Palemaster that takes on more than they can handle with a quick hit of harm and topping them off when they are almost dead.

I personally like to save some AP so I go 3 (damage line) 2 multiplier (crit line) 1 crit chance line. Seems to be better than going 4-1-1, as well I never take the positive critical past what is needed for Radiant Servant II nor do I take the Life magic to level 4. Those AP can be used elsewhere and you will still be able to heal quite nicely with the Life Magic III and do nice damage with the divine punishment with Smiting III, and then the multiplier at II and the crit chance at 1.

Also quicken is a must if you are going to heal raids if for nothing else mass heal and heal spell. They are slow without and you can take too much damage to cause it to fail the concentration check at end game. Granted you can get by without those two spells, but they are the most efficient healing spells you have. Empower is nice to boost damage of Divine punishment.

[CanuckWisdom]

Yes, thanks for all the advice guys. Re: enhancements, I really just threw that build together quick today to have something to post, and the enhancements are flexible, so I'll take all of whats been said into consideration!

I actually have 18 starting wisdom right now on the build, and again, threw together the example quickly, was not sure if I wanted the 17 or the 18. Perhaps I will lower the charisma to get that back up, as I wasnt sure what to expect in terms of number of turns at 20. I can always rework enhancements to fit more turns in too etc. And yes, perhaps Ill drop some final tier stuff to grab the 6AP wisdom 3 and even out the 18+5 base wis.

I really don't want to bother taking spell pen feat, empower would be more exciting, but Im still not quite sure here, and I run out of mana so fast as is on this guy (currently have mental toughness, which I am gonna cut out too), I just dont know.

Yea, I can get more tomes etc, but Im not really figuring them into a first life build much, the ones I have listed are the ones she's already used.

OK all, thanks again.

Oh, and, with regards to the Vulkoor line, you gotta pick one of them for RS2, and sov. host may be better... but meh, its not like a game changer, I like having the scorrow summon if only for aesthetics.

[CanuckWisdom]

Any comments on the idea of SF: Enchantment for the final feat? Sub par compared to quicken/empower or what?

Nothing like saving on heals cause ever monster in sight is commanded to the ground.

Or, comments on taking 2 monk levels? Bad idea as a caster type? Too much SP and lvl 9 spells lost? What about water stance for the added wisdom?

[CanuckWisdom]

OK, edited version, changed enhancements and final feat (quicken), dropped cha for 18 wis

Notably, picked up wisdom 3, dropped DV, modified critical lines a bit

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Saydenah SilverBlayze
Level 20 True Neutral Drow Female
(20 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 1466 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 6
Will: 21

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             10                    10
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom               18                    28
Charisma             10                    11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               0                     1
Bluff                 0                     0
Concentration         6                    24
Diplomacy             2                    18
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                     0
Heal                  4                    11
Hide                  0                     0
Intimidate            0                     0
Jump                  0                     1
Listen                4                    11
Move Silently         0                     0
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                  4                    11
Swim                  0                     0
Tumble                1                     1
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Vulkoor's Avatar
Enhancement: Follower of Vulkoor
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II

I took the empower healing -1 sp over the capstone, not sure if thats the best idea or not.

[Whesper]

I personally like to save some AP so I go 3 (damage line) 2 multiplier (crit line) 1 crit chance line. Seems to be better than going 4-1-1, as well I never take the positive critical past what is needed for Radiant Servant II nor do I take the Life magic to level 4.

This is very good advice, took me quite some cleric levels till I understood that Life magic IV is not quite worth the cost. Though I do get Smiting IV, since in my point of view, you can overheal, but overkilling is pretty rare.

[Pape_27]

I have spell penetration for the last feat. I have no clue if this is really worthwhile end game for a cleric. I'm also considering:
-Spell Focus Enchantment or Evocation
-Mental Toughness
-Extra Turning
-Empower spell (SP costs are already pretty high though, and with necro focus this may not be best idea)
-Quicken.... not very excited about this, how useful is it really...?
-Shield Mastery I could see being good, but its likely that I'll be running with two scepters or the like much of the time anyways.

Thinking no quicken?

Get quicken. Its a necessity. You will need it and want it.

[Habreno]

Capstone is much better than -1 sp on Empower Healing.

[CanuckWisdom]

Cool,

in my updated version there I picked up quicken, and taking the capstone is no problem too.

I did the lesser reincarnation, but am only 15 so the 18 feat hasnt been taken yet.

Thanks for all the advice guys, things are looking pretty good so far, only played around a bit yesterday with the new set up... I'm running out of mana really fast still solo, so I may have to stick to grouping (this 1st life) and using AOE like blade barrier on more than one guy at a time to conserve mana (vs. destruction, harm etc).

Its pretty nice seeing 500+ dmg on a giant using harm. Usually Im pretty big on doing exactly what I want for my characters, research etc, but I do not have a capped caster and this is my highest divine so I appreciate the advice a lot.

[butcheredspirit]

I always take empower on a cleric, the offensive boost is nice.
But maybe the main reason for me, was you can use it for free on the burst.

Running out of sp? Are you utilising your bursts? Do you have superior ardor?
Sometimes at early levels, it's cheaper to buff your melee, and kill this way.

I've always liked Life Magic 4, simply because it boosts my aura and bursts even farther.
With that line of thought I also like to boost healing amp.
But I can understand why people may consider life magic 4 not worth the cost.

Lastly, I've never taken spell focus necro.
Sure it's a good feat, but if a monster is gona save, that 5% increase may not make a huge difference.
However cast energy drain/symbol of death/prayer on the high fort save mobs,
you kill them easily -and without s.f necro.

[ThePrincipal]

anyone else really annoyed that they nerfed holy aura. what's that about.

[firemedium_jt]

Cool,

in my updated version there I picked up quicken, and taking the capstone is no problem too.

I did the lesser reincarnation, but am only 15 so the 18 feat hasnt been taken yet.

Thanks for all the advice guys, things are looking pretty good so far, only played around a bit yesterday with the new set up... I'm running out of mana really fast still solo, so I may have to stick to grouping (this 1st life) and using AOE like blade barrier on more than one guy at a time to conserve mana (vs. destruction, harm etc).

Its pretty nice seeing 500+ dmg on a giant using harm. Usually Im pretty big on doing exactly what I want for my characters, research etc, but I do not have a capped caster and this is my highest divine so I appreciate the advice a lot.

At level 15 it is probably time to start buying heal scrolls. Have 200. Never go below 150 into the next quest just in case. Buy them cheap at Guild vendor. If u are good your max use per quest is 20-30. Your raid loot will pay for it. Healing should be heal spell and then heal scroll on the tank if he tanks lots of damage if not just us the scrolls. Maybe a mass heal if u see more than one toon taking heavy damage.

Also u can buy mana pots at the DDO store and take donations for mana pots too. At this point your cures are not as efficient as heal and heal scroll. Your mana conservation should get better as u play. I only use cure spells to conserve my scrolls if I know I will not run out of mana till the next shrine. Heal scroll blows away my single cure spells.

Also do u have Superior Ardor VI. You should have 2 of items and constantly click them to buff your healing and bursts.

Do u have Superior Brilliance V to buff Divine Punishment? It is nice too.

These clicks are more powerful than potency or devotion and free your hands up, so u can use a keen rapier weapon for nice damage.

[Impaqt]

Evocation > Necromancy

Finger of death is a nice spell.... But BB + Implosion crushes it.

Maximize
Empower
Quicken
Heighten
SF:Evocation
GSF:Evocation
Empower Healing

No Toughness???? OMG!

On a Caster Cleric, the 42 Hit points are not the end of the world. You do need to concentrate on maxing your Hit Points in other ways of course, But its still very easy to top 400 and 500 is not impossible. If ya gotta have it, I'd drop Empower Spell.

[mute_mayhem]

Evocation > Necromancy

Finger of death is a nice spell.... But BB + Implosion crushes it.

Maximize
Empower
Quicken
Heighten
SF:Evocation
GSF:Evocation
Empower Healing

No Toughness???? OMG!

On a Caster Cleric, the 42 Hit points are not the end of the world. You do need to concentrate on maxing your Hit Points in other ways of course, But its still very easy to top 400 and 500 is not impossible. If ya gotta have it, I'd drop Empower Spell.

I disagree,

Destruction + Slay living > Implosion + BB.

At end game (mainly epics) I very rarely cast BB, it's just easier/quicker to instakill stuff and parties (usually) don't play nice with BB. Implosion is a nice spell, and I do use it from time to time, but that 60 second cooldown really hurts it's usefulness (imo), also, the inability to actually target the enemies you want to implode is annoying.

Granted, this is from the perspective of a caster FvS, but it also applies to a Cleric.

[Impaqt]

Range is too short on Slay living to be useful. I generally dump it right after I get Destruction.

[mute_mayhem]

And the range on implosion or BB isn't too short?

[justagame]

anyone else really annoyed that they nerfed holy aura. what's that about.

Completely. Having to bypass friendly SR to get a buff to land is ridiculous (I'm sure it's not WAI, but I'm not holding my breath). And the offensive nerf was unnecessary as well.

It's an 8th level spell, and a fort save. If you fail your fort save against a level 8 spell, you should be dead, or severely maimed. If an enemy has low fort saves, I'm using use implosion or destruction. If they have high fort saves, then Holy Aura is a waste. So either way, the offensive aspect has been neutered.

I didn't realize that this spell was trivializing content, or that the array of divine offensive spells was getting too broad, and needed to be narrowed. 8th level spells should kick some butt. Instead, we now have a spell that gives a very short boost to saves, and requires bypassing your own SR to do even that!

[justagame]

Range is too short on Slay living to be useful. I generally dump it right after I get Destruction.

Same here. It's all too easy to end up with the annoying "you are not facing the mob" problem, even though you were facing it when you started casting. This is even worse with lag.